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  1. #801  
    Well.....here ya go.....before we even have universal health care securely in place, along comes the next crisis....long term care coverage. Yes, it's just not fair that some should be able to afford or get LTC coverage, so along comes the Community Living Assistance Service and Support (CLASS) act sponsored by none other than Ted Kennedy (excuse me, Senator Ted Kennedy, he has earned that...according to Senator Boxer). However, not to worry, in the report I read an amendment by Republicans "......directs the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to develop the LTC program in an “actuarially sound manner,” and to make the premium and benefit adjustments necessary to maintain solvency." Whew....glad they are going to try and make this program solvent. Although....with Obama's take on "pain pills" over treatment for the elderly, maybe CLASS won't be that expensive. Holy c*$p....this just never ends....I'm still trying to get over the $700 million to buy back the land we stole from the wild horses...WOW.
  2. Micael's Avatar
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       #802  
    Quote Originally Posted by IGorbot View Post
    I like the way you didn't say who was in office at the time of the "77%" rate...
    And just look what the government has done with Libraries, Fire Departments and the Post Offices! Jeez.
    What? These are your prime examples of our tax dollars at work? I love our librarians, firemen, and... well the postal workers are ok, but lets just say efficiency isn't their forte. Fortunately the post office has had to adjust because of free market competitors, but they are still courting bankruptcy on a yearly basis. Both fire departments and librarians rely heavily on donations and volunteers, and in most cases, local taxes (not federal like the post offices).

    I'm sorry. Is it your point then that our healthcare system will be run like the post office, and will justifiably require a 77% tax rate to do so?
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  3. Micael's Avatar
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       #803  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    So, let's just be clear. You're saying Micael is being sexist?
    I am 100% for sex, and none of you will be able to talk me out of it!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #804  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    ....I love our librarians, firemen, and... well the postal workers are ok...
    That's Marxism, and proves you're a leftist.

    Libraries should be privately owned and operated. I am don't want my taxes going to some pay for books on atheism and sex education. As far as sex education goes, ignorance is bliss.

    They need privately owned firefightering companies, competing and keeping the cost down and the same with postal worker.
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  5. #805  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Bujin....I'm just quoting your man Obama on telling old people it's just time to die.

    Please show me where he said it was time for old people to die. I dare you. Please put your money where your allegations are.

    Our government has been promoting living wills for years. That whole "they're going to tell old people to die" is a transparent scare tactic and we all know it.
    Last edited by Bujin; 07/31/2009 at 10:39 AM.
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  6. Micael's Avatar
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       #806  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    That's Marxism, and proves you're a leftist.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #807  
    Interesting that the Republicans didn't take the opportunity to begin the process of eliminating the evils of government run health care when an amendment was proposed to eliminate Medicare. Interesting video:
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  8. Micael's Avatar
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       #808  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Libraries should be privately owned and operated. I am don't want my taxes going to some pay for books on atheism and sex education. As far as sex education goes, ignorance is bliss.
    So you're really saying it's the job of our Libraries to provide sex education to our youth? I may have to disagree with you there.
    They need privately owned firefightering companies, competing and keeping the cost down and the same with postal worker.
    Actually, thats starting to occur. More and more private ff companies are springing up around the country and contracting with cities for work. Its a great idea, imho. Glad you thought of it!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #809  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Libraries should be privately owned and operated. I am don't want my taxes going to some pay for books on atheism and sex education. As far as sex education goes, ignorance is bliss.
    Good point. Where in the Constitution does it say that people are entitled to library books...or paved roads....or to spread democracy throughout the Middle East. Marxist ideas, all!
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  10. #810  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Actually, thats starting to occur. More and more private ff companies are springing up around the country and contracting with cities for work. Its a great idea, imho. Glad you thought of it!
    In that case, cities are still footing the bill. Should my local tax dollars be redistributed to pay for someone else's house burning? Why should I care about "we" if it doesn't directly affect "me"?

    Sounds like socialism to me.
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  11. Micael's Avatar
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       #811  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    i'm saying that female politicians, as a rule, are judged on a very different bar than male ones.

    I also think, on a related subject, that people are generally intimidated by strong female (and minority) leaders, and will criticize them very differently than white male leaders. That's why you can easily find criticisms of Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, and Sarah Palin that all revolve around emotionality, while criticisms of Obama tend to be around how "unAmerican", "foreign", and "not like us" he is.

    I have no real opinion about Micael's stance on the issue...merely making an observation.
    So you're making a point totally unrelated to my post. I said nothing about emotional. I will say that Pelosi acts "stupidly". That seems to be an ok term the left can deal with.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. Micael's Avatar
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       #812  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    In that case, cities are still footing the bill. Should my local tax dollars be redistributed to pay for someone else's house burning? Sounds like socialism to me.
    Works for me too! Thanks for coming around to my view of things!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #813  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Please show me where he said it was time for old people to die. I dare you.

    Our government has been promoting living wills for years. That whole "they're going to tell old people to die is a transparent scare tactic.

    So please show me where he told any old person that they would decide when it's time to die. Please put your money where your allegations are.
    Okay....here ya go: Video - Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill - Politics

    This woman's mother needed a pacemaker at age 99, and she wanted to know whether there would be an age criteria or whether "love of life" would also be considered. Obama's answer....maybe she would have been better off with a "pain killer" (interesting choice of word, "killer"). Not sure why you are apprantently upset at me pointing out what the almighty Obama said. By the way, the woman did get the pacemaker and the surgery, and is now 105. Now....le'ts see....where did I put my money....oh, there it is....with my allegations.
  14. Micael's Avatar
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       #814  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Good point. Where in the Constitution does it say that people are entitled to library books...or paved roads....or to spread democracy throughout the Middle East. Marxist ideas, all!
    Marxist? You guys are getting really silly.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #815  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Good point. Where in the Constitution does it say that people are entitled to library books...or paved roads....or to spread democracy throughout the Middle East. Marxist ideas, all!
    I agree....let the freakin' arabs blow each other up. Dang it....the only problem is they want to blow us up to. Grrrrr.....it's always something to ruin a good cheap plan.
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       #816  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Okay....here ya go: Video - Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill - Politics

    This woman's mother needed a pacemaker at age 99, and she wanted to know whether there would be an age criteria or whether "love of life" would also be considered. Obama's answer....maybe she would have been better off with a "pain killer" (interesting choice of work, "killer"). Not sure why you are apprantently upset at me pointing out what the almighty Obama said. By the way, the woman did get the pacemaker and the surgery, and is now 105. Now....le'ts see....where did I put my money....oh, there it is....with my allegations.
    They don't have an answer for this, clem. This one issue alone could kill the bill, and should, in my opinion. Healthcare decisions should be kept personal and between you and your doctor.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #817  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Okay....here ya go: Video - Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill - Politics

    This woman's mother needed a pacemaker at age 99, and she wanted to know whether there would be an age criteria or whether "love of life" would also be considered. Obama's answer....maybe she would have been better off with a "pain killer" (interesting choice of work, "killer"). Not sure why you are apprantently upset at me pointing out what the almighty Obama said. By the way, the woman did get the pacemaker and the surgery, and is now 105. Now....le'ts see....where did I put my money....oh, there it is....with my allegations.
    Maybe I missed the point where he said "it's time for your mom to die" - that' silly. What he said was:

    "some of the waste that exists in the system, that's not making anyone's mom better, that is loading up on additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care, then at least we can let doctors know - and your mom know - that maybe this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking a pain killer."
    People do indeed have unnecessary surgery all the time, and it's especially dangerous for elderly patients. My wife's grandmother died last week from routing surgery at the age of 98. Was she better off having the surgery? I'm willing to guess, hindsight being 20:20, the doctor would disagree now.

    I'm not upset at pointing out what Obama "said", but rather at the fact that he never actually said it. Quite simply, your allegation was dead wrong. I have a thing about facts rather than scare tactics.
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  18. #818  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I agree....let the freakin' arabs blow each other up. Dang it....the only problem is they want to blow us up to. Grrrrr.....it's always something to ruin a good cheap plan.
    Ummm...they're not all "arabs", and (as you undoubtedly are aware) the country that we spent most of our money fighting had nothing to do with blowing us up on 911. But that's a whole other Republican scare campaign for a different thread.
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  19. #819  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    In that case, cities are still footing the bill. Should my local tax dollars be redistributed to pay for someone else's house burning? Why should I care about "we" if it doesn't directly affect "me"?

    Sounds like socialism to me.
    I am starting to think that we need to ban Condos. Think about it. Community owned property, sounds like Marxism to me.
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  20. #820  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Maybe I missed the point where he said "it's time for your mom to die" - that' silly. What he said was:



    People do indeed have unnecessary surgery all the time, and it's especially dangerous for elderly patients. My wife's grandmother died last week from routing surgery at the age of 98. Was she better off having the surgery? I'm willing to guess, hindsight being 20:20, the doctor would disagree now.

    I'm not upset at pointing out what Obama "said", but rather at the fact that he never actually said it. Quite simply, your allegation was dead wrong. I have a thing about facts rather than scare tactics.
    Micael is right...you guys really struggle with this. Dang, you seem to be a bright guy, but when Obama said, "...maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the pain killer." Okay...her Mom's case shows up in front of the government medical "committee", and they decide that maybe she's too old for this surgery and is just too dangerous, so they decline the surgery and put her on the "pain killer". Now....I have no proof of this (I know you'll ask for it, but sorry, due to HIPAA regulations I can't access this woman's medical info) but I'm guessing (yes, a guess) she would not be alive today without the surgery if she had relied on the pain killer option. Did Obama say, "well....it's best to just kill her"....of course not....but, he said it in that compassionate way you guys have. And let me say this....I'm not saying what should be done.....my point is that you and others in here are quick to discuss when insurance companies deny a procedure for someone, and then act as if the public plan, with their "committee", won't also be denying procedures. You can't jump on the insurance companies for trying to save costs and then say it is okay for the goverment to also ration care. Some still believe this public option is "free" and that everything would be covered.

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