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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    ...and we all know how well the rest of the industrialized world's healthcare systems run. Not.
    Do you have any data to back up your assertion? We're considered the 37th best health care system among industrialized countries, and yet by far the most expensive. What makes you think other countries' systems are so flawed?
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  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by zhackwyatt View Post
    It is not my responsibility to take care of every other person in the country......Its my hard earned cash and if I want to spend it on me and the people I love or perfect strangers it should be my choice.
    This mentality is what differentiates citizens of the USA from many/most democratic industrialized countries. As such, the USA has the system it does. Based on my observations from living in the USA for the last 2 years the current system seems to reflect the wants/mentalities of at lest 50% +1 of the population.

    Based on how I received health care before coming to the USA I find the American system to piratically be a criminal operation. However I'm also afforded an opportunity, come election day, to change that.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    At least you have the option to go with a different insurance provider.
    Very few have that option. Most of us are stuck with what ever provider our employer works with. To go with another plan would cost hundreds of dollars more. In most cases the employer pays all or part of the cost. Not to mention that you save money being part of a group plan. And also there is less concern about be rejected due to being classified as a higher risk client.
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  4. Jaer57's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    But GM, Chrysler, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac ran themselves into the ground long before the govt intervened.
    You're right about GM and Chrysler, but Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were both created by Congress as Government Sponsored Enterprises. They may be private companies, but they have been government sponsored/meddled from their inception; getting politicians and their friends rich since 1938...
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  5. Micael's Avatar
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       #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by papla View Post
    If you think the healthcare insurance companies are out to save you money or look out for the best care for you..then you and i mean only you deserve the current system..continue to throw your money away my friend.

    The health insurance companies are all about taking your money and looking for ways to deny you coverage..almost like auto insurance...I will love to see them fail.
    I mean ..are you serious?? "destroying america healthcare"??
    i see and hear stories about how people are denied coverage all the time...you signed up for it..only to realize when you need it that you not covered in that area. Goodluck MICEAL...maybe you will realize what are i am saying when you have some major and serious health issues.
    I work for one of these evil healthcare insurance companies. It's not for profit. I can assure you that this company takes the health of its customers as it's number one priority.

    And yes, I'm serious. As for your seeing and hearing "stories about how people are denied coverage", it's nothing compared to the denials that will come once the government is deciding what's best for an entire country.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Which is it? They remain the same? Or they have increased government oversight? Sounds like state run healthcare with some shells of companies who are told what they can offer and what they can charge. We're talking about a monopoly.
    Do you not understand what the word "except" means?? It means that they remain privately owned companies EXCEPT that they now have increased regulation. It's not a monopoly at all. The companies are just required to abide by ethical guidelines like not denying claims out of hand or dropping customers following claims.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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       #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Do you have any data to back up your assertion? We're considered the 37th best health care system among industrialized countries, and yet by far the most expensive. What makes you think other countries' systems are so flawed?
    I'm not going to get into a data source back and forth with you that turns into endless futile postings of links to biased articles and "expert" comments. I'm trying to discuss these points "here", using my own brain, based on my own lifes experiences, and with as much "common sense" as I can muster. Thanks.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fidicinal View Post
    There is a low-cost government option for those that opt for it.
    That's all we want.

  9. Jaer57's Avatar
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    #49  
    Anyone's who has used Tri-care or been active duty in the military will probably be very skeptical about government run healthcare. Those who haven't should use the military as a case study.

    Also, why can't this be a state issue? Why must we bankrupt America as a whole rather than implement different ideas in different states, see what works best, and then try to expand on it? Such a rush to spend with no real studies completed or plans laid out... Just my 2 cents...
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  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaer57 View Post
    Why must we bankrupt America as a whole rather than implement different ideas in different states
    If the country shifted it's focus from war to health there would be no reason to bankrupt anyone to look after each other.
  11. Micael's Avatar
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       #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord II View Post
    Very few have that option. Most of us are stuck with what ever provider our employer works with. To go with another plan would cost hundreds of dollars more. In most cases the employer pays all or part of the cost. Not to mention that you save money being part of a group plan. And also there is less concern about be rejected due to being classified as a higher risk client.
    There are issues, yes. Changes need to be, and can be made. But handing it all to the government won't fix it, it'll screw it up more. Name one industry the government has "run" that isn't corrupted, wasteful, has tons of red tape and paperwork, with forms forms and more forms... are you people even thinking?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. Micael's Avatar
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       #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    That's all we want.

    There's no such thing.... we can dream though.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I work for one of these evil healthcare insurance companies. It's not for profit. I can assure you that this company takes the health of its customers as it's number one priority.

    And yes, I'm serious. As for your seeing and hearing "stories about how people are denied coverage", it's nothing compared to the denials that will come once the government is deciding what's best for an entire country.
    Ooohh.. I was wondering why you were taking such an obviously unpopular stance on this. You're "invested". Haha. Well I'm a physician and I call bull***** on your "this company takes the health of its customers" blah blah.

    Believe me, as a physician I have everything to lose if this country goes to a single-payer system and I would still support that over the current system. The amount of red-tape I have to deal with on a daily basis could not possibly be worse under government run health care. Medicare is a positive JOY to work with compared to some private companies.
  14. Micael's Avatar
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       #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fidicinal View Post
    Ooohh.. I was wondering why you were taking such an obviously unpopular stance on this. You're "invested". Haha. Well I'm a physician and I call bull***** on your "this company takes the health of its customers" blah blah.
    I'm not sure I care for the personal tone, or the implication that I'm shallow somehow. I spoke honestly. Sorry if you've had a bad experience. What kind of physician are you? What sort of practice do you have?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I work for one of these evil healthcare insurance companies. It's not for profit. I can assure you that this company takes the health of its customers as it's number one priority.
    I'm sure that's what it says on the company Intranet web page under "mission statement" but ultimately a private company is only accountable to it's self or those that run it. Non profit doesn't mean that things are automatically done altruistically. The CEO is still going to want his multimillion dollar compensation as will the rest of the folks at the top. Guess who pays for that?
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    If the country shifted it's focus from war to health there would be no reason to bankrupt anyone to look after each other.
    In 2006 the costs of healthcare was 2.2 Trillion dollars. ONE YEAR. To date, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have cost 830 Billion dollars; since 2001; EIGHT YEARS.

    Ending the wars is a terrific idea; who likes war, right? It really sucks if you actually go to one, like I'm sure some people on this forum did, and I did twice. But it is no endgame for reducing health care costs.

    I would love to see health care costs reduced and find solutions to all our problems in care. I just don't agree with finding a one size fits all solution that is not debated, shoved down my throat, and hope on blind faith that it doesn't enslave my children with exuberant taxes when they're my age.
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    #57  
    Wow, my first post and it is not even about the pre (which I am loving by the way... despite the larger gap on the left hand side.... hum... why is it always the left side?).
    Anyway, I am motivated to post because this whole issue annoys me. I have lived/grown up with government run healthcare and it sucks. Then, when I finally manage to get away from it by moving a third of the way around the world, it follows me!

    So, to all of you who think that a state run system is better as it will put the health of people first, opposed to profit like a private company, you are wrong. For those who clearly watched Obama's speech and suggest that a state run plan will only have an impact on private healthcare if it is better.... you are wrong. Here is how it will work. At first it will seem like the government plan is working, as it will offer similar levels of service for a much lesser out of pocket cost. This will lead to people leaving their private insurance, either voluntarily or because their employer no longer offers it, and taking up the government plan. Later, somebody will do the math and show that the actual cost is significantly higher, i.e. including taxpayers money, etc (note lots of other things, some that will surprise people). But of course it will be too late by then and we will all be stuck with a system that is hugely inefficient. At that stage we can all kiss goodbye to fancy new drugs/equipment/techniques as they are too expensive, and say hello to long waits and visits to a GP which basically involve waiting for 1 hour past your appointment time, to see the doctor for 4 minutes during which time he tells you to get some exercise, sleep and eat well and if in a month you still feel like you are dying, make another appointment.

    In summary, is the system here perfect? Nope.... lots of problems and it costs too much (although less than many places). Is it better than the state run alternative? Hell yeah!
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    This mentality is what differentiates citizens of the USA from many/most democratic industrialized countries. As such, the USA has the system it does. Based on my observations from living in the USA for the last 2 years the current system seems to reflect the wants/mentalities of at lest 50% +1 of the population.

    Based on how I received health care before coming to the USA I find the American system to piratically be a criminal operation. However I'm also afforded an opportunity, come election day, to change that.
    The idea isn't criminal. Its about personal accountability.
  19. Micael's Avatar
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       #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I'm sure that's what it says on the company Intranet web page under "mission statement" but ultimately a private company is only accountable to it's self or those that run it. Non profit doesn't mean that things are automatically done altruistically. The CEO is still going to want his multimillion dollar compensation as will the rest of the folks at the top. Guess who pays for that?
    So this is about wage envy?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by anthillmob View Post
    In summary, is the system here perfect? Nope.... lots of problems and it costs too much (although less than many places). Is it better than the state run alternative? Hell yeah!
    Why not have the choice?

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