Page 28 of 143 FirstFirst ... 1823242526272829303132333878128 ... LastLast
Results 541 to 560 of 2855
  1. #541  
    LOL.....say what you'd like Bujin....the words don't lie....
    I think that's the point. The words you posted didn't reflect what is actually in the plan, so your words did indeed lie. I'm not blaming you - after all, you didn't research at all, just blindly copy/pasted. Totally understandable...it's easy and requires no independent thought.

    Or rather....how many anti-war protests has he marched in while our soldiers fought for his right to do so?
    Ha! The "he's unpatriotic and less American than we conservatives" tactic. Fairly predictable.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  2. #542  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    EXCELLENT....then my post was worth it if it will get you to learn more about it. Nuttin wrong with that? Huh? Don't worry about reading it all, apparently Obama hasn't read much on it either as when he was asked a question regarding it yesterday, he said he didn't know much about that topic and then went on to discuss how it was a crisis. In other words.....don't worry about the details Lester....Big Government will take care of you and everyone else....just trust them, right....just trust them....they know what is best for all of us....trust them. I'm sure Obama will show his reading skills tonight....he is an excellent reader! I just hope the prompter doesn't go down or he's in deep do-do.
    I respectfully disagree with your view Clem. But I thank you for the article.
  3. Cr12's Avatar
    Posts
    95 Posts
    Global Posts
    201 Global Posts
    #543  
    touche bujin, great answer
  4. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #544  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    I know what the conservatives get by keeping things the way they are--money, money, money.
    When all else fails, just impugn the other guy's motives.
  5. #545  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    When all else fails, just impugn the other guy's motives.
    Or imply that they're not patriotic, or unAmerican, or don't have birth certificates..let's not forget those!
  6. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #546  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    How many years did you spend in our military, Bujin?
    Still waiting for a response.....
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #547  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I think that's the point. The words you posted didn't reflect what is actually in the plan, so your words did indeed lie. I'm not blaming you - after all, you didn't research at all, just blindly copy/pasted. Totally understandable...it's easy and requires no independent thought.
    You've said this before... so I think you can stop rubbing his face in it. He trusted a source, and you burned him. Yay.

    Just because you tripped him up on a copy and paste does not invalidate his views or points.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #548  
    I was in the Military. Here's me from 1974. 6'0" 130lbs
    Attached Images Attached Images
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  9. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #549  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I was in the Military. Here's me from 1974. 6'0" 130lbs
    Sweet! Love your red cap!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #550  
    Regarding the comments on tort reform, I can tell you first hand it is a major issue, and not just in the payouts for claims. (I am an OB). The amount of over-testing that we as physicians have to do to protect ourselves against slime-ball lawyers is unbelievable. Virtually every patient encounter we must think if we covered every possible rare problem, or face a lawsuit. This is an enormous cost the healthcare system. And one that will not likely change because most of the legislature, as well as our President, are lawyers.

    Lawyers have ruined medicine, and much of America with ridiculous lawsuits. From the McDonald's lady getting money for the hot coffee burn, to the $800,000 award in Pennsylvania for a person who lost her "ESP" after a CATscan, America stands no chance in the long run unless we get frivolous lawsuits under control.

    I agree that, unfortunately, medical errors do occur because human beings are involved. Other countries use mandatory mediation, or loser pays all costs, etc. to help with problem. We need immediate relief of this, or costs will continue to skyrocket.

    Lastly, most everyone wants "everything" done regarding their health. Who is going to be the one who says "no", we just cannot afford that? A very slippery slope.
  11. #551  
    Well....I just don't get where this is wrong. Here is what was in the section where it forces a business to pay an 8% "contribution" (that's a tax, by the way) for employers with a $400,000 payroll.

    (a) IN GENERAL.—A contribution is made in accord
    17 ance with this section with respect to an employee if such
    18 contribution is equal to an amount equal to 8 percent of
    19 the average wages paid by the employer during the period
    20 of enrollment (determined by taking into account all em21 ployees of the employer and in such manner as the Com22 missioner provides, including rules providing for the ap23 propriate aggregation of related employers). Any such contribution—
    1 (1) shall be paid to the Health Choices Com
    2 missioner for deposit into the Health Insurance Ex
    3 change Trust Fund, and
    4 (2) shall not be applied against the premium of
    5 the employee under the Exchange-participating
    6 health benefits plan in which the employee is en
    7 rolled.

    The next section goes on to explain if your payroll is less than $400,000, and what your "contribution" (love that, sounds better than tax doesn't it?). Read the next section, for "Small Employer" and it references what they must contribute if they don't participate, and it references the $400,000. So you can say what I wrote was wrong, but if it is, then the person who wrote the bill is wrong. Now, this is not the final draft, but it is one of the bills that is being pushed. I'm not going to "cut and paste" every line to back up what I said, but it is what it is.
  12. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
       #552  
    Quote Originally Posted by rcyphermd View Post
    Regarding the comments on tort reform, I can tell you first hand it is a major issue, and not just in the payouts for claims. (I am an OB). The amount of over-testing that we as physicians have to do to protect ourselves against slime-ball lawyers is unbelievable. Virtually every patient encounter we must think if we covered every possible rare problem, or face a lawsuit. This is an enormous cost the healthcare system. And one that will not likely change because most of the legislature, as well as our President, are lawyers.

    Lawyers have ruined medicine, and much of America with ridiculous lawsuits. From the McDonald's lady getting money for the hot coffee burn, to the $800,000 award in Pennsylvania for a person who lost her "ESP" after a CATscan, America stands no chance in the long run unless we get frivolous lawsuits under control.

    I agree that, unfortunately, medical errors do occur because human beings are involved. Other countries use mandatory mediation, or loser pays all costs, etc. to help with problem. We need immediate relief of this, or costs will continue to skyrocket.

    Lastly, most everyone wants "everything" done regarding their health. Who is going to be the one who says "no", we just cannot afford that? A very slippery slope.
    I'm with you on this, mostly, but I wouldn't use the McDonalds coffee lady. If you research it, you'll find out there was alot more too it that just her burn. And there were numerous lawsuits against them because of coffee burns (some requiring skin grats), but McD just paid off the complainers before going to court. MickeyD definitely needed a final wakeup call - they needed to lower their coffee temp.

    I'm all for tort reform, and for protecting doctors from frivilous and over the top lawsuits, but my concern is what then will be the recourse for the little guy against large institutions? If you lower the rewards to some token amount, large institutions like McDonalds won't be forced to alter their practices.... like dropping the temp down on their coffee from 180-190 degrees F, like it was, to a reasonable 135-155 degrees F.

    They'll just absorb the token fee, pass it on to the consumer to pay, and move on.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #553  
    Well....I'm sure most of the folks in here are good people, but reading these views reminds me why I hang out with the friends I do, LOL. I see folks like this on talk shows, and I always wonder if they are for real, and if they really exist....but they do! Hard to believe.

    We will never convince the other that their side is wrong, so I'm just going to leave it at this: Some blindly believe the government is the answer to everything, and don't mind paying more and more taxes (or other's taxes) to provide any and everything for people, while some believe that the government is not the answer to everything.

    I know Thomas Jefferson wasn't a very smart man, and yes, he had slaves and apparently messed around with them, but I'll leave with this quote from him:

    Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.

    Perhaps I should have stated that quote earlier and just left it alone....apparently TJ understood the evils of Big Governement.
  14. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #554  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Or imply that they're not patriotic, or unAmerican, or don't have birth certificates..let's not forget those!
    When I do that, you have my full blessing to slap me down.
  15. #555  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Still waiting for a response.....
    Does the length of my military service have any impact on health care? Or any other relevance, other than an implication that I'm an anti-war protester and Socialist?

    It sounds like another distraction from the issue, and an effort to portray an ideological disagreement as a referendum on "American-ness".
    Last edited by Bujin; 07/22/2009 at 07:40 PM.
  16. #556  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Are you at all bothered that the talking points you posted don't actually support your assertions? I agree that the details are important, but they should be the actual details, and not something you copied/pasted from a site like freerepublic.com without checking for actual...y'know, accuracy.

    What's more important to you: the spin or the facts?
    Ironic considering you've never answered any of the questions posed to you about the previous set of 'facts' that you posted.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #557  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Ironic considering you've never answered any of the questions posed to you about the previous set of 'facts' that you posted.
    Not ironic at all. I think that, if you look at this and other threads, you'll note that I've been more than willing to show data to back up my points. I simply stop responding when I feel that it becomes circular and boring... I'm way too busy & it's simply not worth my time.
    Last edited by Bujin; 07/22/2009 at 08:31 PM.
  18. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #558  
    Quote Originally Posted by zelgo View Post
    "But, you skipped over the part where we send them back after they're cared for. Or is that unthinkable? Am I being an "only me" conservative if I mention that, among the various solutions for illegal immigration is the actual return of the immigrants?"

    Undocumented immigrants are huge contributers to our economy. They are why you pay 20 cents for an orange instead of $5...They're why you pay $10 for a restaurant entree instead of $25.

    Even the Republican Party couldn't agree on what to do under Bush. The businesses all wanted to keep the undocumented.
    I don't really care what the "Republican Party" agrees on. I don't like the fact that law enforcement is forced to turn a blind eye to a certain population of lawbreakers because of political expediency. Just as an example.

    Let me preempt you before you post the comment about "corporate lawbreakers". I don't want a blind eye turned to them either so forget about that red herring.
  19. #559  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Well, I wasn't "rubbing his face in it". I was simply responding to his assertion that his "words don't lie", even after it was shown that there was no truth to them.

    So his views / points were indeed invalidated.
    I'm sorry....I can't sit here and let somebody say my "views/points were invalidated" when they weren't. You can refer to my example above (maybe 6 or 7 posts up) or here is another example. I posted the following:

    Pg 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange

    If you go to that page, here is what it says:

    (a) IN GENERAL.—The Commissioner shall specify
    the benefits to be made available under Exchange-partici
    pating health benefits plans during each plan year, con
    sistent with subtitle C of title I and this section.

    I think "Commissioner shall specify the benefits to be made available under Exchange participating health benefit plans" is the same as "Govt mandates all benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange".

    On another line I said the following:

    Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

    I will say I was wrong here, it was page 146, not 126 (sorry, a typo, oops, burn me at the stake), and it says the following:

    (3) MINIMUM EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION FOR
    EMPLOYEES OTHER THAN FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES.
    —In the case of coverage for an employee who
    is not a full-time employee, the amount of the min-
    imum employer contribution under this subsection
    shall be a proportion (as determined in accordance
    with rules of the Health Choices Commissioner, the
    Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and
    Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury,
    as applicable) of the minimum employer contribution
    under this subsection with respect to a full-time em
    ployee that reflects the proportion of—
    (A) the average weekly hours of employ
    ment of the employee by the employer, to
    (B) the minimum weekly hours specified
    by the Commissioner for an employee to be a
    full-time employee.

    Currently, health carriers do not require employers to provide health benefits for part time employees, normally just those working 30 or more hours per week. This can be a huge deal for employers who are already struggling and now must add additional participates that they now must pay for.

    As for the family coverage part, yes, I was wrong It was not in the section I menitoned, but rather actually started on page 145, and it goes like this:

    (1) FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES.—The minimum
    employer contribution described in this subsection
    for coverage of a full-time employee and, if any, the
    employee’s spouse and qualifying children (as de
    fined in section 152(c) of the Internal Revenue Code
    of 1986) under a qualified health benefits plan (or
    current employment-based health plan) is equal to—
    (A) in case of individual coverage, not less
    than 72.5 percent of the applicable premium
    (as defined in section 4980B(f)(4) of such
    Code, subject to paragraph (2)) of the lowest
    cost plan offered by the employer that is a
    qualified health benefits plan (or is such cur
    rent employment-based health plan); and
    (B) in the case of family coverage which
    includes coverage of such spouse and children,
    not less 65 percent of such applicable premium
    of such lowest cost plan.

    So, while at this point it is up to the employer to say how much they will pay, now the government (under this bill) will dictate how much the employer MUST pay for employee and family coverage. Again, this increases the cost to the employer who now may have no choice but to lay employees off.

    So.....I did not list each of the examples you say I was wrong on, but I think I have proven that what I said was valid. Again....this is just one of 4 or 5 bills floating around, but it is an example of what is being considered.
  20. #560  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Not ironic at all.
    I call shenanigans.
    I think that, if you look at this and other threads,
    I think that I'm speaking specifically about this thread. I invested quite a bit of time taking some of your points seriously only to come up empty when I actually looked into your 'data'. When I pointed out that your 'data' was not actually data, but interpreted results from separate surveys which did not seem to be supported by those surveys and asked for clarification, you ignored queries and instead questioned motives and things like...
    you'll note that I've been more than willing to show data to back up my points. I simply stop responding when I feel that it becomes circular and boring...
    Ah yes, much like the circular logic of defining something that questions _your_ ideology as circular and boring.
    I'm way too busy & it's simply not worth my time.
    Much like actually reading the data that supports your 'facts'?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...

Posting Permissions