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  1. #2781  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    The problem with cutting taxes is they're already too low. We cant survive on NO TAX RATE, although I'm sure thats what you want. Taxes are necessary.
    However.....don't you think everyone should contribute something to taxes? And this BS that the rich paid less under Bush is just that, BS. Per the following article, the share of taxes paid by the top 10% increased to 72.8% in 2005 from 67.8% in 2001, according to the latest data from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). The wealthy actually paid more under Bush:

    Ari Fleischer Says It's Bad for Our Democracy to Exempt Half the Country From Income Taxes - WSJ.com

    I know, I know.....it doesn't make sense.....but the CBO doesn't lie, do they?

    I think a big lesson can be taken from NJ (scary thought there). NJ continued to raise their state taxes and guess what? The rich left and the state's revenues went down while they continued to increase expenses. The lesson, if you tax the rich too much, eventually they take their money and play elsewhere.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  2. #2782  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    it was probably on fox news, then had to be taken down because it was "accidentally" dubbed over incorrectly by an aide.
    Nope....it was CNBC.....Buffet has a thing for Becky Quick....but hey....so do I Anyway, he is on CNBC all the time and it was a live interview so I don't believe it was dubbed. If anything, it has probably been removed from YouTube as it wasn't a good moment for being patriotic and giving to the government.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  3. #2783  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I can't say I really wish I knew what you were talking about. Of course, if you really had something to say, you probably would have said it, so...thanks, its been great talking to you!

    KAM
    You got my point. You're not that stupid.

    You may disagree with me, but claiming you didn't get it is a coward's excuse.
    Last edited by Colonel Kernel; 03/05/2010 at 06:14 PM.
  4. #2784  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    You must have forgotten HIPAA. Also glaringly absent from your evaluation is the Medicare prescription drug act which also have us HSAs. As far as the Party of No, Democrats filibustered Republican attempts at Medicare malpractice reforms and the association health plans.

    Just, you know, FYI.
    You are joking, right?

    Either way, that was some funny crrrraaaapppp you wrote...
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  5. #2785  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Actually, and I know this fact might be hard for you to accept, but the Republicans WERE out of the way--not because they wanted to be, but because that was the factual situation. Democrats (until the MA election) had TOTAL control over the Congress and Presidency. The fact is that Obama did his job so poorly, that even a Congress stacked with a supermajority in his party couldn't be convinced to follow his lead. Despite all the bribes, all the promises, and adoring media coverage, he couldn't get his signature issue out of Congress.

    So, really--who is the "loser" here? The people with complete control over the entire process, who fail to accomplish their top priority, or the powerless minority.

    Perhaps they'd be more effective if they didn't rely so heavily on scapegoats, and propaganda.

    KAM
    Your post is funny as well... let me see... obama goes into office... Dems were to have Health Care ready in two or three months?

    Hey, it took a while to get it to this point. That was the time... I'm sure they could have spit out something before Kennedy died. Not like they did not know he might pass soon.

    People like you just don't get it... you don't attack EVERYTHING because you don't like something. It makes you sound unreasonable and discredits your arguments.
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  6. #2786  
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Kernel View Post
    I've been seeing this thread pop up in the past few days and ignored it, "knowing" it was started by an *****.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Kernel View Post
    You got my point. You're not that stupid.

    You may disagree with me, but claiming you didn't get it is a coward's excuse.
    I'd like to ask you to try and express yourself a little less confrontational.
    I especially don't like you calling the OP an *****.

    Thanks for your understanding in this.

    -Berd
    Just call me Berd.
  7. #2787  
    Oh oh.....looks like the CBO is even finding the new plan not quite as Obama outlined it:

    CBO Sees Big Deficits - WSJ.com

    Now....I realize $1.2 trillion is nothing these days....I mean, what's an extra trillion among friends, right? The scary part is that if the CBO is calling for $1.2 trillion more over the upcoming decade, then you might as well boost that figure another 50%. This "estimate" assumes many things are done that Congress has proven in the past that they usually don't follow through on. These estimates are based on everyone following through with their promises, and that just rarely happens. I loved this quote from the above mentioned article: The CBO said it couldn't analyze what the administration projects to be $743 billion of revenue from health-care legislation, but "assumed that the policies would have the effect set forth in the budget." This is code for "we doubt this will happen".

    I heard a great comment this morning, and that was this bill is Healthcare "Expansion", not Healthcare "Reform". There is a difference. I, am most people opposed to this bill, are for Healthcare Reform which will reduce costs and premiums, not something to start another government wellfare program.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  8. #2789  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I heard a great comment this morning, and that was this bill is Healthcare "Expansion", not Healthcare "Reform". There is a difference. I, am most people opposed to this bill, are for Healthcare Reform which will reduce costs and premiums, not something to start another government wellfare program.
    No, that was not a good coment... makes very little sense.

    At any rate, you can reduce the costs and premiums, but the main goal is to stop the increasing expansion of costs and premiums we are currently experiencing.

    But the bill is not just for costs and premiums... if that was all it was for, then what would be the "real" benefit?
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  9. #2790  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Oh oh.....looks like the CBO is even finding the new plan not quite as Obama outlined it:
    And if they had "estimated" in Obama's favor, you would have said the Dems were behind it... or asked when the last time a gov't agency ever estimated anything right.

    Anyway, the cbo had a lot more than that to say...

    The CBO said it couldn't analyze what the administration projects to be $743 billion of revenue from health-care legislation, but "assumed that the policies would have the effect set forth in the budget."

    It other words, I'm not even sure the CBO knows for sure... which is a bit scary and has given me pause for health care. It is needed and will get here, but it is a large chunk of our gdp... if it goes wrong... but doing nothing for sure makes sure it will go wrong. Waiting on the Republicans for another three years to "talk" about doing something is no option.

    The Republicans never had and never will have a plan for health care...
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  10. #2791  
    I love the way the blowhard right talks about what America wants and what they don't want, and who they trust and who they don't. From yesterday: Gallup asked who do you trust to reform health care?

    1. Doctors, 77%
    2. Hospitals, 64%
    3. University professors or researchers who study health care policy, , 61%
    4. Obama, 49%
    5. Democratic leaders in Congress, 37%
    6. Republicans leaders in Congress, 32%
    7. Pharmaceutical companies, 30%
    8. Health insurance companies, 26%
    link

    Sounds about the way it should be to me.
  11. #2792  
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Kernel View Post
    You got my point. You're not that stupid.
    Take it from me...don't make assumptions. Word count and bluster do not equal intelligence.
  12. #2793  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I'd like to ask you to try and express yourself a little less confrontational.
    I especially don't like you calling the OP an *****.

    Thanks for your understanding in this.

    -Berd
    I fully believe that those two comments were perfectly appropriate considering the confrontational comments that inspired them.

    However, as this request is coming from a Mod, I will do as asked both now and in the future, in this thread and across PreCentral as a whole.

    The first way I will do that is by never visiting this thread again. After 150+ pages it's clear that people are unwilling to actually debate the issue. Not only do I think this unwillingness is a shame, I think it's criminal. Our country vitally needs this. Disagreement is normal and healthy, but the lack of progress in this debate is a sign of a terminally ill patient.
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2794  
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Kernel View Post
    You got my point. You're not that stupid.

    You may disagree with me, but claiming you didn't get it is a coward's excuse.
    Well, I understand that you were mouthing off. I'm just not interested in pretending its relevant.

    You didn't have a point--at least not related to anything I said. You merely spouted some tripe about the Republican party. If I spent all my time responding to idiotic distractions I'd never get to sleep.

    KAM
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2795  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    I thougt you didn't have time to "explain" anything else to us? its ok...u can leave the majority to their wishes.
    Your fantasy about being the "majority" refers to what? Oh that's right--the grade school tactic of pretending to have weight behind what you say as a means of propping up weak claims. Here's a hint--if you're smart, you don't have to talk about how smart you are. If you really ARE in the majority...well, that would be apparent.

    Just because you get some like-minded 'thinkers' to push the thanks button, because you are saving their time from making equally as meaningless or nonsensical little quips, doesn't mean you are "the majority."

    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    we don't want you here either. maybe when you find some truth, your argument will hold more water.
    Please feel free to put your money where your mouth is and address ANY of the points I've made on a factual basis. Your nah-nah, reasoning isn't terribly convincing. I really want to know if you believe this school-yard silliness that you keep spewing?

    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    or maybe when someone you agree with has control of anything. you sound a lot like john boehner. you shud vote forhim for president. that or sarah palin...they're both on the same level as you. . good luck in the future
    Wow, such brilliant analysis. How could one stand up to that. Of course you do seem to have some fans here. Great minds think alike. How do you get along in the real world with this sort of open nonsense. Do you really live your life spewing cheap-slogan level jibes? Really?

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 03/06/2010 at 09:43 PM.
  15. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2796  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Take it from me...don't make assumptions. Word count and bluster do not equal intelligence.
    As if you had the reading comprehension skills to determine this one way or the other.

    By the way--Did you learn how HSAs work yet?

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 03/06/2010 at 08:52 PM.
  16. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2797  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Your post is funny as well... let me see... obama goes into office... Dems were to have Health Care ready in two or three months?

    Hey, it took a while to get it to this point. That was the time... I'm sure they could have spit out something before Kennedy died. Not like they did not know he might pass soon.

    People like you just don't get it... you don't attack EVERYTHING because you don't like something. It makes you sound unreasonable and discredits your arguments.
    Perhaps you aren't aware of how things work. Coming up with a bunch of expensive ideas and leftist dream-bills isn't an accomplishment. I'm sure that Obama's friends in SEIU or other "friends" had this whole plan ready LONG before he even took the oath of office. It might seem like it took a few months to get together, but that was the time they were busy pushing through their "stimulus" bill giveaways to all their pet projects.

    As far as you accusation about attacking "everything" Well, that simply isn't true, and making absurd statements like that makes YOU sound unreasonable. I've said all along that I believe there are area of agreement that should be pursued. I'm sorry that President Obama lacked the actual qualities that would allow him to make actual progress on this. I'm sorry that he handed the reigns over to his attack dog allies in Congress. I'm sorry that he demonstrated such a lack of leadership to the extent that even his own party (who was in complete control) wouldn't go along with him.

    However, your hero decided against actual bipartisan cooperation (evidenced by holding a summit to exchange ideas a YEAR LATER), and tried to ram a "reform" through that the American people are against. I'm sorry if those facts don't sit well with you and you need a scapegoat.

    Since my entering into this discussion, I've talked about actual ideas that I think are valuable. Most people haven't bothered in all this time to discuss the merits or lack of merits of them, and instead have piled on endless attacks, distortions, lies, and a whole hell of a lot of pettiness. Am I guilty of getting into these fights, yes, but I came here with ideas, which is a lot more than I can say of most of the people here.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 03/06/2010 at 09:37 PM.
  17. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2798  
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Kernel View Post
    I fully believe that those two comments were perfectly appropriate considering the confrontational comments that inspired them.

    However, as this request is coming from a Mod, I will do as asked both now and in the future, in this thread and across PreCentral as a whole.

    The first way I will do that is by never visiting this thread again. After 150+ pages it's clear that people are unwilling to actually debate the issue. Not only do I think this unwillingness is a shame, I think it's criminal. Our country vitally needs this. Disagreement is normal and healthy, but the lack of progress in this debate is a sign of a terminally ill patient.
    Wow, amazing hypocrisy, given that you instantly turned to petty attacks--meaningless ones at that. Yes, your record here is certainly one of "actual debate."

    KAM
  18. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2799  
    Hello Everyone,

    Now, let me get to the reason I actually came here. I'd like to share some articles, which I thought might be helpful, given that so many people here CLAIM to want to talk about "facts." Now, while I really know for most that means they want to spout their propaganda, and attack anyone who has contrary views, but I'd prefer something with a little more content.

    If you disagree with something in the article, feel free to address it--FACTUALLY.

    Myths about Reconciliation - Daniel Foster & Stephen Spruiell on National Review Online

    I link this, because there is a lot of talk about Reconcilation, and how its been used in the past, and many distortions about it. It's a fairly complicated issue, and one I think everyone could benefit from understanding a bit better. That is--if they are actually interested in real facts and issues.

    KAM
  19. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2800  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    And if they had "estimated" in Obama's favor, you would have said the Dems were behind it... or asked when the last time a gov't agency ever estimated anything right.

    Anyway, the cbo had a lot more than that to say...

    The CBO said it couldn't analyze what the administration projects to be $743 billion of revenue from health-care legislation, but "assumed that the policies would have the effect set forth in the budget."

    It other words, I'm not even sure the CBO knows for sure... which is a bit scary and has given me pause for health care. It is needed and will get here, but it is a large chunk of our gdp... if it goes wrong... but doing nothing for sure makes sure it will go wrong. Waiting on the Republicans for another three years to "talk" about doing something is no option.

    The Republicans never had and never will have a plan for health care...
    Are you suggesting that the existence of non-existence of a Republican plan is somehow supporting...well anything? Given that there is ZERO chance of any Republican plan passing the Democrat controlled House and Senate, this seems like a bit of a straw man. That being said--they DO have a plan, you just don't like it, which is fine, but it serves no purpose to claim it doesn't exist.

    I agree that doing nothing isn't a good option, but I'm not sure that what is being proposed is better either. That's why it is entirely reasonable for the American people to want ACTUAL reform, not this mangled mess. This long ago stopped being about helping anyone, and became a pure political issue--on both sides.

    As far as the CBO issue. There are articles and analysis out there that question this claimed savings, and why it isn't likely to come to pass. Simply accepting the "promise" is naive at best. When you read about this (both sides) you can see that it isnt' the slam dunk that people here are repeating (many times) or what the Administration claims.

    The government has a very bad track record at this in terms of cost--probably following very similar claims to what we are hearing now. The financial situation is already VERY seriously bad, and this isn't going to swing it one way or the other, in the end, but given that we need to FIX all these problems, it doesn't make sense to add another to the pile.

    KAM

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