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  1. #2721  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    The rest of the world includes a whole lot of people who don't have to worry about their own defenses. In fact, it includes more than one country that gets aid from the US. So, here's a thought: let's stop overloading the international gravy train and keep that money here at home! The we can compare apples to apples.
    your absolutely correct, you should stop the gravy train. I freely admit, that Canada depends on your military for several things. Things like the now defunct pine tree line, and a few other lines that crossed this country. For those too young to know, they were a bunch of radar stations set up across Canada at varying levels of latitude, to give a warning for all those terrible russian nukes that were going to come flying in. Yup, they were built on Canadian soil to protect the good ol US of A. Or at least as it turns out give you folks about 3-4 minutes warning you were about to be vaporized. Up here in canada, we have been dealing with those sites, and all the fine pollution left behind. Toxic crap, making living on or near those now decommissioned sites impossible. Not to mention the fact most of them were built right next to our modest cities, which made them ohhh first strike sites. Yup the gravy train.
    Dont get me wrong, there is a lot of good that has come from the states, a ton, I really do appreciate my neighbors to the south. I spent 4 years down there competing back in the late 70s, hell even broke my leg once, cost me a mere 6000 bucks to get it set. Only to find out it was done wrong. but hey shiet happens.

    Yes, there is another bunch of countries out there, some who absolutely hate you. So badly do they hate you they attack you at every chance. 911 comes to mind, plus a whole lot more.
    I will readily admit, some of the issues they have are, for a lack of a better way of putting it, is jealousy. Other issues with some countries derive from your corps raping and pillaging and then leaving. You have to remember, all they see in some of these 3rd world countries is your flag, not the name of the corp.

    Just remember, if you cut off the gravy train, as you call it, there is an equal and opposite reaction to that. It will vary from a sigh of relief, to a perception of weakness. There will be massive layoffs of american workers, businesses will fail, and yes jimmy you will have a lot of fine upstanding americans ****ed off at you.

    Do i believe you should be giving money or supplies to countries who will turn around and use it against you, Hell no. However to believe that its your way or the highway to about ohhhhhhhh 95% of the rest of the world is just plain stupid.

    just my two canadian cents worth.
  2. #2722  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    your absolutely correct, you should stop the gravy train. I freely admit, that Canada depends on your military for several things. Things like the now defunct pine tree line, and a few other lines that crossed this country. For those too young to know, they were a bunch of radar stations set up across Canada at varying levels of latitude, to give a warning for all those terrible russian nukes that were going to come flying in. Yup, they were built on Canadian soil to protect the good ol US of A. Or at least as it turns out give you folks about 3-4 minutes warning you were about to be vaporized. Up here in canada, we have been dealing with those sites, and all the fine pollution left behind. Toxic crap, making living on or near those now decommissioned sites impossible. Not to mention the fact most of them were built right next to our modest cities, which made them ohhh first strike sites. Yup the gravy train.
    Dont get me wrong, there is a lot of good that has come from the states, a ton, I really do appreciate my neighbors to the south. I spent 4 years down there competing back in the late 70s, hell even broke my leg once, cost me a mere 6000 bucks to get it set. Only to find out it was done wrong. but hey shiet happens.

    Yes, there is another bunch of countries out there, some who absolutely hate you. So badly do they hate you they attack you at every chance. 911 comes to mind, plus a whole lot more.
    I will readily admit, some of the issues they have are, for a lack of a better way of putting it, is jealousy. Other issues with some countries derive from your corps raping and pillaging and then leaving. You have to remember, all they see in some of these 3rd world countries is your flag, not the name of the corp.

    Just remember, if you cut off the gravy train, as you call it, there is an equal and opposite reaction to that. It will vary from a sigh of relief, to a perception of weakness. There will be massive layoffs of american workers, businesses will fail, and yes jimmy you will have a lot of fine upstanding americans ****ed off at you.

    Do i believe you should be giving money or supplies to countries who will turn around and use it against you, Hell no. However to believe that its your way or the highway to about ohhhhhhhh 95% of the rest of the world is just plain stupid.

    just my two canadian cents worth.
    Well.....you see......I believe that if we stop throwing money out to other countries.....perhaps our citizens could actually keep more of that money....thus spending it (which is good, it will mean more jobs) or perhaps even creating jobs with it (those jobs you seem so worried about). I mean, if us sending money to other countries is so good, then let's send more! Yes! If the amount we send now is working so well....then by god, let's double it! Why not have our top tax bracket at 60 or 70%?

    Obviously there is a reaction to any action. I mean, no one seems worried about the jobs that will potentially be lost as insurance companies are shut down so the government can provide health benefits for everyone. You say the government will need to hire these people? Oh great, more dependence on the government. Does anyone realize that the more government employees we have, the more money the government must pay out, and therefore we need more people to tax...or....of course....just tax the remaining private citizens at higher amounts! Good grief.
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  3. groovy's Avatar
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    #2723  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    your absolutely correct, you should stop the gravy train. I freely admit, that Canada depends on your military for several things. Things like the now defunct pine tree line, and a few other lines that crossed this country. For those too young to know, they were a bunch of radar stations set up across Canada at varying levels of latitude, to give a warning for all those terrible russian nukes that were going to come flying in. Yup, they were built on Canadian soil to protect the good ol US of A. Or at least as it turns out give you folks about 3-4 minutes warning you were about to be vaporized. Up here in canada, we have been dealing with those sites, and all the fine pollution left behind. Toxic crap, making living on or near those now decommissioned sites impossible. Not to mention the fact most of them were built right next to our modest cities, which made them ohhh first strike sites. Yup the gravy train.
    Dont get me wrong, there is a lot of good that has come from the states, a ton, I really do appreciate my neighbors to the south. I spent 4 years down there competing back in the late 70s, hell even broke my leg once, cost me a mere 6000 bucks to get it set. Only to find out it was done wrong. but hey shiet happens.

    Yes, there is another bunch of countries out there, some who absolutely hate you. So badly do they hate you they attack you at every chance. 911 comes to mind, plus a whole lot more.
    I will readily admit, some of the issues they have are, for a lack of a better way of putting it, is jealousy. Other issues with some countries derive from your corps raping and pillaging and then leaving. You have to remember, all they see in some of these 3rd world countries is your flag, not the name of the corp.

    Just remember, if you cut off the gravy train, as you call it, there is an equal and opposite reaction to that. It will vary from a sigh of relief, to a perception of weakness. There will be massive layoffs of american workers, businesses will fail, and yes jimmy you will have a lot of fine upstanding americans ****ed off at you.

    Do i believe you should be giving money or supplies to countries who will turn around and use it against you, Hell no. However to believe that its your way or the highway to about ohhhhhhhh 95% of the rest of the world is just plain stupid.

    just my two canadian cents worth.
    Our money, out way. Isn't that how is works all over? Just ask the third world countries getting IMF funds. But, as is clearly evident from your post, you can't buy friends... or gratitude. Oh, and don't you imagine there were more than a few Canadian leaders who had to give permission to plant those pine trees .
  4. groovy's Avatar
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    #2724  
    Will Obama's healthcare plan reduce costs? / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

    In all, the plan would cost nearly $1 trillion over the next 10 years. Obama plans to pay for that mainly by squeezing waste or excessive costs out of Medicare and imposing a tax on high-end health insurance plans. "The bottom line is, our proposal is paid for," he said Wednesday.

    But here's why not everyone agrees that cost control will happen:

    – The tax on high-end plans has been reduced, in part because it was opposed by labor unions. The administration still says its plan overall will not add to federal deficits, but the tax on "Cadillac plans" was supposed to help impose some cost discipline on the entire health system. Now it wouldn't do that to the same degree.

    – Private-sector premiums will remain high. What's important for Americans is not just how much government spends on healthcare, but how much people have to spend total – including insurance premiums and out-of-pocket expenses. An Obama-style plan would have little impact on premiums for most Americans, a CBO analysis found in December. That means no big spike (good news), but also no big drop.

    – Some healthcare spending is left out of the bill. A key example, Mr. Ryan says, is a $371 billion cost for the what Congress calls the "doc fix," or preventing annual cuts in reimbursements to doctors.

    Perhaps most important is a general point: Almost all the key numbers come with a high degree of uncertainty. Some surprises could be negative, such as if more employers than anticipated opt to drop health benefits. Some could be positive, such as if experiments with new models of care reap gains faster than expected.

    Given these uncertainties, the key divide between Obama and Republicans is philosophical: Democrats generally are confident that an enlarged role for government can help rein in costs, even as it expands healthcare coverage to more Americans. Republicans favor new efforts to harness marketplace forces, while targeting specific programs to reduce the number of uninsured.
  5. #2725  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Our money, out way. Isn't that how is works all over? Just ask the third world countries getting IMF funds. But, as is clearly evident from your post, you can't buy friends... or gratitude. Oh, and don't you imagine there were more than a few Canadian leaders who had to give permission to plant those pine trees .
    Nice way to twist, but you have it wrong, I honestly do appreciate the US. I really have very little animosity with America. Yes you (read nation) have done some things that have ****ed me off. You have also done one hell of a lot of good. IMF, hmmmm last i checked Canada gave to that too, as do one hell of a lot of other nations. No you can not buy friends, that is the mistake you make. You are far more likely to have long fast friendships with other nations by actually listening to them. Not deciding what is best and then imposing your idea, ideals on them. Some of your own tenets of being american is that you celebrate differences from one person to the next. Individuals, are paramount in your system. Good, if thats what works for you great. It doesn't work for everyone. Again, lol everyone is different. In this little thread on health care, that is the one thing you have all missed. Be it free market, be it total govt controlled health care, each person has their own belief.

    As to some canadian leaders giving permission to build those little pine trees, your absolutely correct, they gave permission to build them, I dont recall them giving permission to leave toxins in the environment. But things back then were far different then they are now. I am old enough to remember, hell participate in "drop and cover", listening to air raid siren drills, russian fishing trawlers, that were actually radio listening posts, and a host of other things. Based on what I have read here, many of you fine folks would have shiet your pants at the amount of control the govts of the day had over your every move, all in the name of saving the good ol US of A and its way of life. lol
    Yes ultimately the U.S.S.R. collapsed, Regan and a few other of your leaders spent them into the ground.
    you are worried about loosing jobs in the insurance industry, lol, i would suggest, that you should be far more worried about how many jobs will be lost, how high your unemployment will go, once Iraq and Afghanistan are finished. There are a lot of jobs tied up in that industry then a few insurance jobs. ohhh and while your about it, just how much are you spending to prosecute those two wars. How much of that huge deficit is actually your war debt? lolol I would bet one hell of a lot.

    So yes, threaten to pull back, be careful, there is a huge country just a bit west of you, with what,, 3-4 times the population, that would be more then happy to replace you as a world leader. Yes Jimmy, not only do they own most of your debt, they are pushing hard to replace your dollar as the world standard. So once you finish playing turtle, and push your head back out, it would be a vastly different world. I am not saying it would be better or worse, just extremely different.

    Long gone are the days where you could go behind the barricades, button down, hide your heads in the sand and let the rest of the world do what it would. with the multinationals based in the U.S., do you really think those corps would let you do it? whoooa if you believe that you, as pretty much the ultimate consumer nation in the world, followed closely by China, that the corps would let your govt do that?? lolol good luck with that one..

    I will say once again, i have no problem with most of what the U.S. says and does, hell some very good friends of mine are american, lol i dont hold that against them .... lol much
  6. #2726  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    Nice way to twist, but you have it wrong, I honestly do appreciate the US. I really have very little animosity with America. Yes you (read nation) have done some things that have ****ed me off. You have also done one hell of a lot of good. IMF, hmmmm last i checked Canada gave to that too, as do one hell of a lot of other nations. No you can not buy friends, that is the mistake you make. You are far more likely to have long fast friendships with other nations by actually listening to them. Not deciding what is best and then imposing your idea, ideals on them. Some of your own tenets of being american is that you celebrate differences from one person to the next. Individuals, are paramount in your system. Good, if thats what works for you great. It doesn't work for everyone. Again, lol everyone is different. In this little thread on health care, that is the one thing you have all missed. Be it free market, be it total govt controlled health care, each person has their own belief.

    As to some canadian leaders giving permission to build those little pine trees, your absolutely correct, they gave permission to build them, I dont recall them giving permission to leave toxins in the environment. But things back then were far different then they are now. I am old enough to remember, hell participate in "drop and cover", listening to air raid siren drills, russian fishing trawlers, that were actually radio listening posts, and a host of other things. Based on what I have read here, many of you fine folks would have shiet your pants at the amount of control the govts of the day had over your every move, all in the name of saving the good ol US of A and its way of life. lol
    Yes ultimately the U.S.S.R. collapsed, Regan and a few other of your leaders spent them into the ground.
    you are worried about loosing jobs in the insurance industry, lol, i would suggest, that you should be far more worried about how many jobs will be lost, how high your unemployment will go, once Iraq and Afghanistan are finished. There are a lot of jobs tied up in that industry then a few insurance jobs. ohhh and while your about it, just how much are you spending to prosecute those two wars. How much of that huge deficit is actually your war debt? lolol I would bet one hell of a lot.

    So yes, threaten to pull back, be careful, there is a huge country just a bit west of you, with what,, 3-4 times the population, that would be more then happy to replace you as a world leader. Yes Jimmy, not only do they own most of your debt, they are pushing hard to replace your dollar as the world standard. So once you finish playing turtle, and push your head back out, it would be a vastly different world. I am not saying it would be better or worse, just extremely different.

    Long gone are the days where you could go behind the barricades, button down, hide your heads in the sand and let the rest of the world do what it would. with the multinationals based in the U.S., do you really think those corps would let you do it? whoooa if you believe that you, as pretty much the ultimate consumer nation in the world, followed closely by China, that the corps would let your govt do that?? lolol good luck with that one..

    I will say once again, i have no problem with most of what the U.S. says and does, hell some very good friends of mine are american, lol i dont hold that against them .... lol much
    Your comments are exactly why I prefer not to help out folks like you. Yes, you laugh and giggle at the money we spend to save the world. I wonder....if the US of A didn't get the world involved to run Hussein (not Obama, the dead one) out of Kuwait....if we had just sat back and waited for....oh....let's say.....Canada....to do something about it, I wonder where we'd be right now. But of course, the good ole US of A came to the rescue of the World once again. Sure....other countries, including Canada....were involved in that little Kuwait squirmish....but I doubt anything would have been done without us making the first move. So just laugh and laugh....but one day....we'll probably save your and then maybe you'll stop laughing. You can keep Canada "bud".
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  7. #2727  
    The unfortunate truth about the Republicans is that they did nothing on Health care... crap.. zip... nada damn thing while bush was in office.

    Now, all of a sudden, they are the party of the "good ideas" on health care. Right...

    Bunch of losers.

    Get out of the way so Obama can do his job.
    Last edited by theog; 03/04/2010 at 09:27 PM.
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  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2728  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Well.....you see......I believe that if we stop throwing money out to other countries.....perhaps our citizens could actually keep more of that money....thus spending it (which is good, it will mean more jobs) or perhaps even creating jobs with it (those jobs you seem so worried about). I mean, if us sending money to other countries is so good, then let's send more! Yes! If the amount we send now is working so well....then by god, let's double it! Why not have our top tax bracket at 60 or 70%?

    Obviously there is a reaction to any action. I mean, no one seems worried about the jobs that will potentially be lost as insurance companies are shut down so the government can provide health benefits for everyone. You say the government will need to hire these people? Oh great, more dependence on the government. Does anyone realize that the more government employees we have, the more money the government must pay out, and therefore we need more people to tax...or....of course....just tax the remaining private citizens at higher amounts! Good grief.
    Well, we do spend a lot of money on defense and that has and does certainly benefit other nations, and certainly there is waste in the defense budget (like the entire budget), but I think you will find that our entitlement programs are our biggest financial liability.

    KAM
  9. groovy's Avatar
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    #2729  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    The unfortunate truth about the Republicans is that they did nothing on Health care... crap.. zip... nada damn thing while bush was in office.

    Now, all of a sudden, they are the party of the "good ideas" on health care. Right...

    Bunch of losers.

    Get out of the way so Obama can do his job.
    You must have forgotten HIPAA. Also glaringly absent from your evaluation is the Medicare prescription drug act which also have us HSAs. As far as the Party of No, Democrats filibustered Republican attempts at Medicare malpractice reforms and the association health plans.

    Just, you know, FYI.
  10. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2730  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    The unfortunate truth about the Republicans is that they did nothing on Health care... crap.. zip... nada damn thing while bush was in office.

    Now, all of a sudden, they are the party of the "good ideas" on health care. Right...

    Bunch of losers.

    Get out of the way so Obama can do his job.
    Actually, and I know this fact might be hard for you to accept, but the Republicans WERE out of the way--not because they wanted to be, but because that was the factual situation. Democrats (until the MA election) had TOTAL control over the Congress and Presidency. The fact is that Obama did his job so poorly, that even a Congress stacked with a supermajority in his party couldn't be convinced to follow his lead. Despite all the bribes, all the promises, and adoring media coverage, he couldn't get his signature issue out of Congress.

    So, really--who is the "loser" here? The people with complete control over the entire process, who fail to accomplish their top priority, or the powerless minority.

    Perhaps they'd be more effective if they didn't rely so heavily on scapegoats, and propaganda.

    KAM
  11. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2731  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    You must have forgotten HIPAA. Also glaringly absent from your evaluation is the Medicare prescription drug act which also have us HSAs. As far as the Party of No, Democrats filibustered Republican attempts at Medicare malpractice reforms and the association health plans.

    Just, you know, FYI.
    Oh no "I" isn't relevant when some whining propaganda will suffice.

    Did you also notice how the the actual cost issue (the actual point) was TOTALLY ignored in favor of the same old propaganda attack.

    KAM
  12. #2732  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Your comments are exactly why I prefer not to help out folks like you. Yes, you laugh and giggle at the money we spend to save the world. I wonder....if the US of A didn't get the world involved to run Hussein (not Obama, the dead one) out of Kuwait....if we had just sat back and waited for....oh....let's say.....Canada....to do something about it, I wonder where we'd be right now. But of course, the good ole US of A came to the rescue of the World once again. Sure....other countries, including Canada....were involved in that little Kuwait squirmish....but I doubt anything would have been done without us making the first move. So just laugh and laugh....but one day....we'll probably save your and then maybe you'll stop laughing. You can keep Canada "bud".
    ohhh struck a nerve, lol, again try reading the whole damn post. right to the very end
  13. #2733  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    You must have forgotten HIPAA. Also glaringly absent from your evaluation is the Medicare prescription drug act which also have us HSAs. As far as the Party of No, Democrats filibustered Republican attempts at Medicare malpractice reforms and the association health plans.

    Just, you know, FYI.
    Just so YOU know, HIPAA was signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1996. The Medicare prescription drug act was nothing but a handout to drug companies. You must favor banning the government from negotiating prices with private industry to save taxpayers money. Yeah, you picked fine examples of the republican commitment to health care. Figures.
  14. #2734  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Your comments are exactly why I prefer not to help out folks like you. Yes, you laugh and giggle at the money we spend to save the world. I wonder....if the US of A didn't get the world involved to run Hussein (not Obama, the dead one) out of Kuwait....if we had just sat back and waited for....oh....let's say.....Canada....to do something about it, I wonder where we'd be right now. But of course, the good ole US of A came to the rescue of the World once again. Sure....other countries, including Canada....were involved in that little Kuwait squirmish....but I doubt anything would have been done without us making the first move. So just laugh and laugh....but one day....we'll probably save your and then maybe you'll stop laughing. You can keep Canada "bud".
    How would the world be if we hadn't invaded a country for no good reason? Better off, to say nothing of the thousands of Americans and Iraqis that would still be alive, and the fact that our economic issues would probably be non-existant. As usual, you are consumed with the concept that we "save" the world. We did a lot in WWII. Since then, what have we accomplished world-wide? Nothing, and don't bother to blabber on about how Reagan brought down the wall. That's a lot a manure as well. Our police actions in Korea, Viet Nam and Iraq have done exactly WHAT for the world?

    Since you seem to like Ron Paul, why don't you pay attention to his philosophy about the use and expenditures of our money for wasteful policing efforts? IN some ways I'd love to see Paul get elected, just so he could shut down the military actions and spending that have caused much more harm than they have helped.
  15. #2735  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    ohhh struck a nerve, lol, again try reading the whole damn post. right to the very end
    Don't bother and don't worry. It's just that there are a certain group of Americans who are delusional about the "wonder" of the US. Of course, that's only when their candidate is in office. If not, they root for the president to fail. You won't get anywhere in this discussion.
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    #2736  
    This is real. this isnt a joke. The first two (red), are the deficit from the tax cuts of Pres. Bush. The third (blue) is the projected effect the Healthcare proposal will have on the deficit.

    Does anyone notice the words in BOLD? Reconciliation? Ya, that same thing repubs dont want dems to use to HELP us. I guess you're only allowed to use reconciliation when you are destroying America.
    Attached Images Attached Images
  17. #2737  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    How would the world be if we hadn't invaded a country for no good reason? Better off, to say nothing of the thousands of Americans and Iraqis that would still be alive, and the fact that our economic issues would probably be non-existant. As usual, you are consumed with the concept that we "save" the world. We did a lot in WWII. Since then, what have we accomplished world-wide? Nothing, and don't bother to blabber on about how Reagan brought down the wall. That's a lot a manure as well. Our police actions in Korea, Viet Nam and Iraq have done exactly WHAT for the world?

    Since you seem to like Ron Paul, why don't you pay attention to his philosophy about the use and expenditures of our money for wasteful policing efforts? IN some ways I'd love to see Paul get elected, just so he could shut down the military actions and spending that have caused much more harm than they have helped.
    Yes....I'm sure if we hadn't kicked Hussein out of Kuwait, he would have stopped there. NOT Most believe he was heading to Saudi Arabia next. If you think his primary goal was controlling the powerhouse Kuwait, well, I guess there really is no reason to discuss....but others believe Kuwait was a stepping stone or a test by Hussein to see what the US would do. I think we made it clear.

    Interesting question.....do you believe Iran has nuclear ambitions? I saw a report on the news the other day where we really can't get a good handle on exactly what they truly have vs what they are indicating they have. Seems they are not cooperating. Does that sound familiar?What if they are bluffing like we later found out Hussein was doing? I believe most believe they are getting close to having nuclear capabilities....but what if it is a bluff? And what if because it is a bluff....or at least a partical bluff.....someone (Israel? US?) does something to end this assumed threat and we find out it really wasn't what they made it out to be? Mistake? And a mistake by who?

    As for me liking Ron Paul. I don't think he is electable, so I'm not really too focused on him. I do like many of this ideas.....but since many Americans vote on looks and stature, not ideas, I doubt he has a realistic shot. Since no Republican has announced they are running (at least I haven't heard of any), hard to say who I would be backing. Wow....you are a real hard nose liberal....not even giving Reagan any credit for ending the Cold War. I guess you give the credit to Carter? ROFL
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  18. #2738  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Yes....I'm sure if we hadn't kicked Hussein out of Kuwait, he would have stopped there. NOT Most believe he was heading to Saudi Arabia next. If you think his primary goal was controlling the powerhouse Kuwait, well, I guess there really is no reason to discuss....but others believe Kuwait was a stepping stone or a test by Hussein to see what the US would do. I think we made it clear.

    Interesting question.....do you believe Iran has nuclear ambitions? I saw a report on the news the other day where we really can't get a good handle on exactly what they truly have vs what they are indicating they have. Seems they are not cooperating. Does that sound familiar?What if they are bluffing like we later found out Hussein was doing? I believe most believe they are getting close to having nuclear capabilities....but what if it is a bluff? And what if because it is a bluff....or at least a partical bluff.....someone (Israel? US?) does something to end this assumed threat and we find out it really wasn't what they made it out to be? Mistake? And a mistake by who?

    As for me liking Ron Paul. I don't think he is electable, so I'm not really too focused on him. I do like many of this ideas.....but since many Americans vote on looks and stature, not ideas, I doubt he has a realistic shot. Since no Republican has announced they are running (at least I haven't heard of any), hard to say who I would be backing. Wow....you are a real hard nose liberal....not even giving Reagan any credit for ending the Cold War. I guess you give the credit to Carter? ROFL
    I give credit to communism for ending the cold war. It didn't work. Reagan had little to do with anything. Communism was becoming economically and socially unreasonable for some time before Reagan.

    The point of bringing up Paul was simply that he is totally opposed to any international intervention lacking the clear evidence that we were attacked. That would have negated most of our military actions going back to WWII. Do you agree with that perspective?
  19. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2739  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    The Medicare prescription drug act was nothing but a handout to drug companies. You must favor banning the government from negotiating prices with private industry to save taxpayers money. Yeah, you picked fine examples of the republican commitment to health care. Figures.
    Yes, that Medicare Prescription Drug benefit really was a bad idea. No means of paying for it, special favors, probably some bribery to get it passed too. Maybe it wasn't their ideal situation, but they settled for it--just so they could say they got something passed for political reasons.

    Or, perhaps they just convinced themselves that they were getting the elderly the help that they "deserved" the elderly, so they didn't care about the other issues: Not the evils of big government, not the horrors of paying more taxes, not the sweetheart deals that are a part of legislative culture... Perhaps they simply said "the end justifies the means," and ignored ALL the other issues. Terribly irresponsible.

    But then again--who could be that much of a moron? How stupid would one have to be to ignore ALL the actual issues surrounding something, to demand some possible benefit. I'd be very wary of anyone who held such a blatantly idiotic point of view.

    However, now that I think about it...I've heard this kind of nonsense somewhere recently, where was that. Oh right--here it is!

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    All I care about is that people have the health care they deserve. And this is the only way they will get it, because the other party has made clear over the years that they will not address it at all. It may not be the way I would choose, but they will have it anyway. And that is what I care about. Not the evils of big government, not the horrors of paying more taxes, not the sweetheart deals that are a part of legislative culture no matter what party or bill you're talking about. That's what I care about, and in this case, the end justifies the means.
    Hmmm.

    KAM
  20. #2740  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I give credit to communism for ending the cold war. It didn't work. Reagan had little to do with anything. Communism was becoming economically and socially unreasonable for some time before Reagan.

    The point of bringing up Paul was simply that he is totally opposed to any international intervention lacking the clear evidence that we were attacked. That would have negated most of our military actions going back to WWII. Do you agree with that perspective?
    I would say that if an issue wasn't going to effect us here, then I would be opposed. I am not an expert, nor do I claim to be, on military actions since WWII. But, I would have probably been against Vietnam....but I don't want to get into that debate....I just don't know enough about it. Maybe if I studied it more I would change my opinion on it. The more current interventions.....I see some good things have resulted but I really don't have time to write about it....LOL....not sure how you guys consistently write as much as you do. I've had 2 days of it....and I'm ready for a break.
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