Page 129 of 143 FirstFirst ... 2979119124125126127128129130131132133134139 ... LastLast
Results 2,561 to 2,580 of 2855
  1. #2561  
    Title of this thread, Destroying Healthcare in America. I'd put forward that healthcare is already destroyed in the USA. After all, millions and millions of American's do not have accsess to heathcare (for whatever the reason). When compared to the majority of western democracies/republics this would be judged a complete embarrassing failure.
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  2. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2562  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Title of this thread, Destroying Healthcare in America. I'd put forward that healthcare is already destroyed in the USA. After all, millions and millions of American's do not have accsess to heathcare (for whatever the reason). When compared to the majority of western democracies/republics this would be judged a complete embarrassing failure.
    We've got some amazing health care capabilities in this country--amongst the best in the world. What is "destroyed" is the economic issues related to healthcare, which is due to many decades of manipulation by government and insurance companies, which has led to unsustainable cost increases. People deny it all the time, but that's the system we've had, and we are where we are UNDER that system.

    And you are wrong--Millions and Millions Are NOT without access to healthcare--as we've been told by "experts" they simply get it in a different (inefficient) manner--which we all pay for. Who is to blame for that? Not me, the person paying the taxes and elevated insurance costs to cover these people, but rather the people who manage these pathetic failures of programs. That of course doesn't stop morons from blaming people like me, who want actual reform, and not more government-manipulated failure.

    If our Government actually said "Wow, we are sucking at this, spending hundreds of billions a year and STILL not covering the poor" and cleaned up their act...well, you'd probably have 90% agreement and a clear path to fix the problem. Instead, they want to deny that THEY'VE got problems and scapegoat insurance companies (that also have big problems).
    I'm sure some "expert" will tell me how wrong I am and how I don't understand anything, but I would remind any such person that the President and his Democrat Allies are using this exact reasoning--waste, fraud and abuse (inefficiency) in their justification for their "plans." Unfortunately, they are relying on assumed savings, and spending it multiple times, which brings into question the economics again, but there is no argument about the waste. That waste is and has been in government hands all along.

    That's the joke in all of this--key players in CREATING the problem are being looked to as saviors. With that brilliant plan, you can rest assured that failure will follow.
    Here's a Repost of an Link to an Article talking about some of these issues:
    http://www.realclearmarkets.com/arti...are_97634.html

    If you understand that, you can start to understand the problem, and how we got where we are today.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 03/02/2010 at 10:12 AM.
  3. #2563  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    And you are wrong--Millions and Millions Are NOT without access to healthcare--as we've been told by "experts" they simply get it in a different (inefficient) manner--which we all pay for.
    I agree with most of what you said. However I'd say the the millions and millions with "inefficient healthcare," based on how they are forced to receive that care, basically don't have any.

    The reality and fear of a 100k hospital bill keeps the non and under insured away from the hospital until their health problems are just to big to ignore anymore. They are then admited to emergancy (only because the law says they must be due to the sevarity of their issues) and the hospital has to write it off because the bill will never be paid. This is the most expensive and daft way to provide care for people and we all end up paying for these elevated costs in our insurance premiums.

    How could anyone call this healthcare? Embarrassing!
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  4. #2564  
    Couldn't agree more. Calling manditory emergency room admission is NOT health care or insurance. Most people that are against insuring all Americans don't get it because THEY HAVE INSURANCE....if you don't understand that your tax dollars are ALREADY paying for the uninsured then you have a simple glitch that can't be fixed by an update. The only reason an ambulance trip to the hospital has gone from $200 to $1000 is because the uninsured tend to not pay. Same goes for hospital costs, room charges etc. We all pay already because not everybody has insurance. May as well bite the bullet, gat everyone insured so your next ambulance trip doesn't cost you $3000!


    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I agree with most of what you said. However I'd say the the millions and millions with "inefficient healthcare," based on how they are forced to receive that care, basically don't have any.

    The reality and fear of a 100k hospital bill keeps the non and under insured away from the hospital until their health problems are just to big to ignore anymore. They are then admited to emergancy (only because the law says they must be due to the sevarity of their issues) and the hospital has to write it off because the bill will never be paid. This is the most expensive and daft way to provide care for people and we all end up paying for these elevated costs in our insurance premiums.

    How could anyone call this healthcare? Embarrassing!
  5. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2565  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I agree with most of what you said. However I'd say the the millions and millions with "inefficient healthcare," based on how they are forced to receive that care, basically don't have any.

    The reality and fear of a 100k hospital bill keeps the non and under insured away from the hospital until their health problems are just to big to ignore anymore. They are then admited to emergancy (only because the law says they must be due to the sevarity of their issues) and the hospital has to write it off because the bill will never be paid. This is the most expensive and daft way to provide care for people and we all end up paying for these elevated costs in our insurance premiums.

    How could anyone call this healthcare? Embarrassing!
    Ok, we agree on most of this. It IS however, health care, crappy, inefficient and poorly managed, but still health care...although it is in fact embarrassing in many ways.

    For my part, my position for this is "we are already spending 300 billion or so" on the poor--let's just do a better job of it, get these people some real coverage and save money while we are at it.

    Unfortunately, I have absolutely no reason to believe that this is what is going to happen. Why? Because we are building on top of a weak foundation of flawed ideas, instead of being honest about the problems that got us where we are today. Following this path in my view insures continued problems.

    KAM
  6. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2566  
    Quote Originally Posted by callderek View Post
    Couldn't agree more. Calling manditory emergency room admission is NOT health care or insurance. Most people that are against insuring all Americans don't get it because THEY HAVE INSURANCE....if you don't understand that your tax dollars are ALREADY paying for the uninsured then you have a simple glitch that can't be fixed by an update. The only reason an ambulance trip to the hospital has gone from $200 to $1000 is because the uninsured tend to not pay. Same goes for hospital costs, room charges etc. We all pay already because not everybody has insurance. May as well bite the bullet, gat everyone insured so your next ambulance trip doesn't cost you $3000!
    I think the real issue is how to accomplish this. The uninsured however aren't the only reason prices are rising.

    KAM
  7. #2567  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Unfortunately, I have absolutely no reason to believe that this is what is going to happen. Why? Because we are building on top of a weak foundation of flawed ideas, instead of being honest about the problems that got us where we are today. Following this path in my view insures continued problems.
    Agreed....a very weak foundation. A system, that in my opinion, has never been about putting Americans first. Lucky for me I'm well and expensively insured. For those who are not, life really sucks.
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  8. #2568  
    That's true KAM, the corruption and greed slipped my mind! Sorry about that.
  9. #2569  
    Kam I am a little confused by something you wrote. Would you mind clearing it up for me.
    'Ok, we agree on most of this. It IS however, health care, crappy, inefficient and poorly managed, but still health care...although it is in fact embarrassing in many ways.'
    I am from the great white north, with universal health care, plus i have stopped reading most of this thread, as it was getting extremely boring.
    first who manages your present health care system? The one that most americans, use. Not the poor.
  10. #2570  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    Kam I am a little confused by something you wrote. Would you mind clearing it up for me.
    'Ok, we agree on most of this. It IS however, health care, crappy, inefficient and poorly managed, but still health care...although it is in fact embarrassing in many ways.'
    I am from the great white north, with universal health care, plus i have stopped reading most of this thread, as it was getting extremely boring.
    first who manages your present health care system? The one that most americans, use. Not the poor.
    You've got it. Our health care system, with it's "crappy, inefficient, poorly managed and embarassing" qualities is a "privately run" system with only a minor part of the management being governmental, regardless of what Kam says. Insurance is private except for Medicare and Medicaid; almost all health care facilities are privately owned. Public funds, however, pay for between a third and half of all costs. This is precisely because of the inefficient care as has been pointed out. Some may be due to fraud and waste, and a negligible amount to malpractice, but this country's health care system is private. And that's why it is failing.
  11. #2571  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    Kam I am a little confused by something you wrote. Would you mind clearing it up for me.
    'Ok, we agree on most of this. It IS however, health care, crappy, inefficient and poorly managed, but still health care...although it is in fact embarrassing in many ways.'
    I am from the great white north, with universal health care, plus i have stopped reading most of this thread, as it was getting extremely boring.
    first who manages your present health care system? The one that most americans, use. Not the poor.
    xForsaken, the people who manage (or missmanage) our healthcare are lobbyists. It's kind of like if Palm owned the cell towers, the internet tubes and satallites.
  12. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2572  
    Quote Originally Posted by callderek View Post
    That's true KAM, the corruption and greed slipped my mind! Sorry about that.
    Do not forget the Government--the people being looked to to "save" us.

    KAM
  13. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2573  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    Kam I am a little confused by something you wrote. Would you mind clearing it up for me.
    'Ok, we agree on most of this. It IS however, health care, crappy, inefficient and poorly managed, but still health care...although it is in fact embarrassing in many ways.'
    I am from the great white north, with universal health care, plus i have stopped reading most of this thread, as it was getting extremely boring.
    first who manages your present health care system? The one that most americans, use. Not the poor.
    You are right--the poor don't run it. Nor do I (the not-poor). I will tell you who isn't running it--the millions of taxpayers and self-insured, and businesses that provide insurance for people. These people AREN'T to blame, yet they are on the hook for all the costs. We are all the victims of the government and health care industry who have enjoyed the benefits of their manipulated system for decades--all at our expense.

    The current system is a *******-child of insurance companies and government. Dishonest people want to point to one or the other because it suits their political desires. Claiming it is a "private system" is a joke, given that government is heavily involved in price setting AND is responsible for helping to establish the employer based insurance system we have today.
    This sort of biased, politically driven idiocy is why there is very little hope for actual reform--because biased, idiots insist on ignoring at least half of the problem. That is either insanity or corruption--or both. Or maybe it is just unvarnished, stubborn arrogance of people who are so biased that they can't even consider the issues outside of their own little bubble.

    It is true--private companies are involved--heavily involved, but so is government. They are in bed together, happily serving THEIR needs.
    What we do not have, and have not had for a very long time in health care is a FREE MARKET system. Let me say that again, since I know people like to blur the issues here. We do not have a Free Market system that regulates health care costs, we have a MANIPULATED system, which is heavily controlled by government action in one form or another.

    This manipulated system--a COOPERATIVE effort between government and insurance companies, as well as doctors and health facilities is the problem, and the people are the victims. To pick and chose some of these perpetrators while ignoring the others is extremely dishonest--a lie upon which I think these "reform" efforts are built.

    People do this in order to push the political agenda they prefer, and get very, very angry when someone points out that their favored culprit is also to blame and that we should be wary of their "solutions." I've been accused of "partisanship" when in terms of this issue nothing is farther from the truth. I'm for stopping yet another fraud, and addressing the actual issues, not simply the ones that the politicians want to highlight--for THEIR purposes.

    To forward the lie that government has no blame in this, or only plays a minor role is to perpetuate the problem. If someone is stupid enough to keep on repeating the same mistakes, or perhaps even delving deeper into them, because their bias doesn't allow them to get past their own wants, then they will deserve the blame moving forward.

    There is no difference in desire for Reform--only in the solution. Willfully ignoring the actual situation that created the problem is stupidity. From day one discussing this, I've been for identifying and solving the problem, not shielding ANYONE from blame because of politically based bias.

    Will a Free market reform work? Yes, an actual free market will insure that the price finds its proper level. Will that cost be affordable? Maybe, maybe not, but at least it will be real, not some manipulated fantasy inherently flawed and sure to cause its own problems. When this happens, it is just a matter of finding the best way to pay for it.

    Nothing being proposed will solve the problem we currently have--it is building a new addition on a cracked foundation. What we need is to build a solid foundation, and anything else is just wishful thinking or fraud.

    People can wish and hope as much as they want that they can ignore selected issues, because it doesn't fit in their script, but that's not how problems are solved--its how they are perpetuated.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 03/02/2010 at 12:34 PM.
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2574  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Agreed....a very weak foundation. A system, that in my opinion, has never been about putting Americans first. Lucky for me I'm well and expensively insured. For those who are not, life really sucks.
    No doubt that today not having insurance is a very bad situation. But that's starting from the assumption that the mess we have now is a given, and I don't believe it is.

    The system today is resting on this "weak foundation" that we are using as our analogy (an appropriate one I think). The solution simply is not to keep building more and more on top of it. What is maddening about this is that many if not most people out there are trying to do exactly that.

    KAM
  15. #2575  
    I agree with KAM, the government doesn't run anything well. All they do is waste money and find ways to grow this government. Think about what you are saying, asking the Govt. to take on the roll of health care??? They want us to be dependent on them, this is the biggest step to a full on socialist society, which will make us all even more dependent on them to save us. I had a bad motorcycle crash in 1994 and I had no insurance, but there are programs in place to help those like myself, even way back in '94. I was living with a room mate in an apt. and didn't make much money. My medical bills easily exceeded $200,000 as I was in the hospital for 6 weeks. My sister found out about a program in Dallas to help people in my position. I qualified for Dallas County Tax Support and they paid nearly all of my expenses. If I ever come in to a windfall of money I will have to pay it back, and I'll do it gladly. So you see, things are already in place to help many of us, but you have to work to find out what can help you. You can also get help from your church (the way it should be). I know many people in our church have been helped through rough times by the entire congregation. The problem is, everyone wants to live their own life, don't want to be bothered by those crazy church people, but still expect a hand out. Get off your lazy bums and work for it guys. Take on 3 jobs if you have to, just keep your freedoms and don't give it away like it's no big deal. Once we have to rely on the govt. for health care, they will have us right where they want us. Hello Cuba, here we come...
  16. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2576  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    Kam I am a little confused by something you wrote. Would you mind clearing it up for me.
    'Ok, we agree on most of this. It IS however, health care, crappy, inefficient and poorly managed, but still health care...although it is in fact embarrassing in many ways.'
    I am from the great white north, with universal health care, plus i have stopped reading most of this thread, as it was getting extremely boring.
    first who manages your present health care system? The one that most americans, use. Not the poor.
    One other point I'd like to make. You do realize that of course, I was speaking about those who do NOT have Private insurance--the poor in this case.

    Healthcare for those who have insurance is actually quite good, although the economic situation is a problem. That's different from saying it is an embarrassment overall. It isn't--the costs are just out of control.

    What is embarrassing is why we spend hundreds of billions of dollars on the poor and still cannot cover them, even when the cost per person spent (taking that 47 million uninsured number) divides out to be more than is spent on my insurance?

    So, what that seems to be saying is that per person, more is being spent on the uninsured under a government program than is spent on me (in a "private" (not free market) system), and yet their situation is horrible while mine is generally acceptable (excepting rising costs). What does that tell you?

    KAM
  17. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2577  
    Quote Originally Posted by patriot199 View Post
    Hello Cuba, here we come...
    Didn't you hear--Cuba has a great Healthcare system.

    KAM
  18. #2578  
    Ha, what's bad is some probably think they do have great health care, and they probably thought Castro was a humanitarian as well.
  19. #2579  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    The system today is resting on this "weak foundation" that we are using as our analogy (an appropriate one I think). The solution simply is not to keep building more and more on top of it. What is maddening about this is that many if not most people out there are trying to do exactly that.
    KAM
    I feel the same. When I first got the details of the Presidents plan I didn't quite understand how it could truly be called "reform." Sounded more like same s h i t different pile or perhaps reform lite. I give the guy props for trying, the last guy didn't even do that.

    Coming from a country with government run medical care it's really hard to come to terms living in a country that isn't providing heathcare to all it's citizens at an equal level. A system which says you are as important as your pockets are deep. Most American's I talk to have colossal misconceptions about how a government run medical system can work and therefore will not even entertain looking at the idea. Can the rest of the free world really be that wrong?
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  20. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2580  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    I feel the same. When I first got the details of the Presidents plan I didn't quite understand how it could truly be called "reform." Sounded more like same s h i t different pile or perhaps reform lite. I give the guy props for trying, the last guy didn't even do that.
    I don't give politicians credit for pursuing solutions that put politics first. The last guy was too busy running into the other Third rail--social security.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Coming from a country with government run medical care it's really hard to come to terms living in a country that isn't providing heathcare to all it's citizens at an equal level. A system which says you are as important as your pockets are deep. Most American's I talk to have colossal misconceptions about how a government run medical system can work and therefore will not even entertain looking at the idea. Can the rest of the free world really be that wrong?
    Well, yes the rest of the world CAN be that wrong. It doesn't mean they are.
    I think we might have misconceptions about how CANADA's System is run for Canadians. We have government healthcare here--Medicare and Medicaid, as well as the VA. I've heard some say that the VA is efficiently run, but I seem to recall a few years ago hearing about how it was a nightmare not serving the needs of our Veterans (not sure which is true).
    Medicare is pretty popular here-as are most "free" things, but according to our current President it has about 500 billion in waste, and others concur that it is riddled with "fraud, waste and abuse" (the dollar amount assigned to that differs). Additionally, it is economically unsustainable as it is currently arranged, and headed towards insolvency.
    Medicaid...well, that's the system that is supposed to help the poor--you know the ones we talked about in the "embarrassing" situation. This system is also bankrupting many States.

    That's at best a mixed review of the USA's government healthcare. The common thread with all of them--cost. So, we've got plenty of our own examples of government healthcare with problems so serious that they are economically unsustainable.

    We have a manipulated cost system here that is draining the insured and taxpayers (much overlap there) dry on the "private" side of things as well.

    Additionally, I think it is fair to say that the Canadian system has its own flaws as well.

    KAM

Posting Permissions