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  1. piaband's Avatar
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    #2501  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Well, that's where you need a fair arbiter. That isn't reasonable, and in my view is fraud--when it occurs like you say.

    KAM
    Well, right now it happens and worst...its perfectly legal.

    who is the fair arbiter in your opinion? Can you think of one better than someon appointed by the president we all vote into office? I cant.

    Let me ask you this flat out. Who is more fair as an arbiter. Insurance company or Government?
  2. piaband's Avatar
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    #2502  
    All the talk about HSA's....are we forgetting that you will still be able to keep you HSA with the new legislation?

    You can keep whatever insurance you have.
  3. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2503  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    This is where we fundamentally disagree. I view healthcare as a right. You view it as a privilege.

    what makes your life more important than anyone else? Nothing, thats what.

    You do not have a right to demand that someone provide you something, which is exactly the case stating you have a "right" to healthcare. You do not.

    What you have a right to do is SEEK whatever healthcare you want. You simply have to pay for it, or come to some other agreement.

    I'm not sure why this is hard for people to understand, but simply--your rights cannot extend to the point where they inherently infringe upon someone else's. If you have a right to healthcare, that means you aren't responsible for paying for it--its a right. You do not buy a right. However, healthcare costs money--Doctors get paid and supplies and facilities cost money to build and maintain. That means someone pays.

    You do not have a right to demand that someone gives you something or pays for what you want...or even need.

    KAM
  4. rfceo's Avatar
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    #2504  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    Well, right now it happens and worst...its perfectly legal.
    Yes it does happen every day. There have been people who on their way to surgery the insurance company canceled their policy.
  5. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2505  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    Well, right now it happens and worst...its perfectly legal.
    Yes, and who defines the laws. Who has allowed this situation to exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    who is the fair arbiter in your opinion? Can you think of one better than someon appointed by the president we all vote into office? I cant.
    Yes, I was referring to government...specifically the legal system. Ideally, a streamlined subset of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    Let me ask you this flat out. Who is more fair as an arbiter. Insurance company or Government?
    I think you are missing my point. It has to be a THIRD party. If the government is the second party, there can be no fair arbiter. Obviously, if you have two teams the referee has to be a third party--not a member of the team. That's why it is so important to have the government in a proper role--as arbiter, NOT as insurer.

    KAM
  6. piaband's Avatar
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    #2506  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    You do not have a right to demand that someone provide you something, which is exactly the case stating you have a "right" to healthcare. You do not.

    What you have a right to do is SEEK whatever healthcare you want. You simply have to pay for it, or come to some other agreement.

    I'm not sure why this is hard for people to understand, but simply--your rights cannot extend to the point where they inherently infringe upon someone else's. If you have a right to healthcare, that means you aren't responsible for paying for it--its a right. You do not buy a right. However, healthcare costs money--Doctors get paid and supplies and facilities cost money to build and maintain. That means someone pays.

    You do not have a right to demand that someone gives you something or pays for what you want...or even need.

    KAM
    I dont need anything provided for me. To be sure, those people already get healthcare. I only need affordable healthcare. For me, that is nowhere to be found.

    We've already agreed that healthcare is a right so your arguing it makes you sound very ignorant. If not, we wouldnt have medicaid.

    Really? we dont have a right to get something we NEED? Then why do we give out food stamps? Why do we give out welfare? Why does every single modern country in the world have universal healthcare except us? Are they all idiots? Wow, those suckers dont know what they're missing, huh?

    If we had universal healthcare for 10 years, you would think it was crazy how long we didnt have it. I promise you that.
  7. piaband's Avatar
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    #2507  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post


    I think you are missing my point. It has to be a THIRD party. If the government is the second party, there can be no fair arbiter. Obviously, if you have two teams the referee has to be a third party--not a member of the team. That's why it is so important to have the government in a proper role--as arbiter, NOT as insurer.

    KAM
    YOU ARE MISSING EVERY POINT? WHO IS THIS FAIR ARBITER YOU SPEAK OF? WHERE DOES IT COME FROM? WHO IS IT?

    Just admit it, I stumped you. You can say you were wrong, its ok. We all know it anyways.
  8. piaband's Avatar
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    #2508  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Yes, and who defines the laws. Who has allowed this situation to exist?


    KAM
    Up until now, the insurance industry has defined the laws. They accomplish most of it by paying off republicans to "save America from the big bad government"

    Its funny how everyone uses big governement as a scare tactic. They regulate everything. Why should heathcare be any different.

    Atleast if we're unhappy with government, we can vote them out. Cant say the same for the board of directors at Anthem.
  9. rfceo's Avatar
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    #2509  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    You do not have a right to demand that someone provide you something, which is exactly the case stating you have a "right" to healthcare. You do not.

    What you have a right to do is SEEK whatever healthcare you want. You simply have to pay for it, or come to some other agreement.

    I'm not sure why this is hard for people to understand, but simply--your rights cannot extend to the point where they inherently infringe upon someone else's. If you have a right to healthcare, that means you aren't responsible for paying for it--its a right. You do not buy a right. However, healthcare costs money--Doctors get paid and supplies and facilities cost money to build and maintain. That means someone pays.

    You do not have a right to demand that someone gives you something or pays for what you want...or even need.

    KAM
    Do you have a right to have Health insurance that you pay for?
    Right now insurance companies cherry pick who they cover, that is not right, that is not an insurance company. Insurance is purchased and the company providing it is taking the risk. What they are doing now is skirting the risk factor.
  10. #2510  
    OMAHA, Neb. -- (BY JOSH FUNK, AP) Billionaire Warren Buffett says health care costs are a major drain on U.S. businesses and act like an "economic tape worm."

    The head of the holding company Berkshire Hathaway Inc. said Monday on CNBC that America's health care system needs fundamental reform to attack costs because it's not practical to continue devoting roughly 17 percent of the nation's gross domestic product to health care.

    Buffett says much of the rest of the world is paying about 9 percent of their GDP on health care and have more doctors and nurses per person.

    He says he hopes Congress will develop a new health care reform proposal that will restrict costs more than any of the current plans would.

    WATCH Warren Buffet talk health care On CNBC:



    Warren Buffett On CNBC: Health Care Is Like An 'Economic Tape Worm' (WATCH)
  11. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2511  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    YOU ARE MISSING EVERY POINT? WHO IS THIS FAIR ARBITER YOU SPEAK OF? WHERE DOES IT COME FROM? WHO IS IT?

    Just admit it, I stumped you. You can say you were wrong, its ok. We all know it anyways.
    Ok, now you are just making yourself look foolish.

    Aside from stating quite plainly that the Government is the Third Party arbiter I am referring to, I also stated it previously, which you apparently also didn't catch.

    I stated in post #2727 the following:
    Why? At least with private companies you have a choice who you deal with and an arbiter (the government) to appeal to, if you get the shaft.

    You responded to this post with post #2731, so don't blame me if you can't remember what is said. Clearly, I was referring to government being that third party arbiter the entire time. I'm not sure why you fail to understand this.

    So, what "We all know" isn't apparently much of anything.

    KAM
  12. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2512  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    Up until now, the insurance industry has defined the laws. They accomplish most of it by paying off republicans to "save America from the big bad government"

    Its funny how everyone uses big governement as a scare tactic. They regulate everything. Why should heathcare be any different.

    Atleast if we're unhappy with government, we can vote them out. Cant say the same for the board of directors at Anthem.
    Are you unaware that the government DOES in fact already regulate these things? I know this might burst your bubble, but these horrible things are happening with the government's full knowledge. They ARE regulating it, and letting all these horrible things happen.

    Of course, you just seem to want to attack insurance companies, so why would I imagine you'd care about these other facts.

    KAM
  13. piaband's Avatar
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    #2513  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Ok, now you are just making yourself look foolish.

    Aside from stating quite plainly that the Government is the Third Party arbiter I am referring to, I also stated it previously, which you apparently also didn't catch.

    I stated in post #2727 the following:
    Why? At least with private companies you have a choice who you deal with and an arbiter (the government) to appeal to, if you get the shaft.

    You responded to this post with post #2731, so don't blame me if you can't remember what is said. Clearly, I was referring to government being that third party arbiter the entire time. I'm not sure why you fail to understand this.

    So, what "We all know" isn't apparently much of anything.

    KAM
    You also say how dangerous letting the governemtn be the third party arbiter. You make no sense from one post to the next. You say ont thing on one post, then completely contradict yourself two posts later. Are you John Boehner?
  14. piaband's Avatar
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    #2514  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Are you unaware that the government DOES in fact already regulate these things? I know this might burst your bubble, but these horrible things are happening with the government's full knowledge. They ARE regulating it, and letting all these horrible things happen.

    Of course, you just seem to want to attack insurance companies, so why would I imagine you'd care about these other facts.

    KAM
    No they arent. thats why the legislation would give them control over these things. because they dont have it right now.

    There is no real regulation right now. Thats a fact. you are just flat out lying. If you mean they can scold the companies for their fraudulent practices, then you are right. Is that what you mean by regulation?
  15. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2515  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    You also say how dangerous letting the governemtn be the third party arbiter. You make no sense from one post to the next. You say ont thing on one post, then completely contradict yourself two posts later. Are you John Boehner?
    No--I think if you actually go back and read, you will find that I said that the government is the proper third party arbiter (several times).

    I'm not contradicting myself at all--which you will find if you just bother to read what I actually said. It's all there--go back and read it.

    KAM Said:That's why it is so important to have the government in a proper role--as arbiter, NOT as insurer.

    See--I said the government SHOULD be the Arbiter. Just like I said all along. Now, it really can't get more simple than this, so if you still don't get it...well, then I cannot help you.

    KAM
  16. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2516  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    No they arent. thats why the legislation would give them control over these things. because they dont have it right now.

    There is no real regulation right now. Thats a fact. you are just flat out lying. If you mean they can scold the companies for their fraudulent practices, then you are right. Is that what you mean by regulation?
    There are other regulations as well, but yes, prosecuting fraud is one means of stopping this. For whatever reason, the government isn't doing a good job at that, and if someone wanted to strengthen the ability to streamline this to protect consumers from fraud, I'd be all for it.

    Here's a suggestion...slow down a bit, and you will perhaps find that I'm not the villain you are looking for.

    KAM
  17. piaband's Avatar
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    #2517  
    The American people have spoken. They have elected democrats to a majority in every part of government. The american people want healthcare reform and we're gonna get it.

    You can complain all you want, but my guess it will surprise you how well it works.

    See you in the future, a better one with better healthcare for everyone, not just your privileged, sliver-spoon self.
  18. piaband's Avatar
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    #2518  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    No--I think if you actually go back and read, you will find that I said that the government is the proper third party arbiter (several times).

    I'm not contradicting myself at all--which you will find if you just bother to read what I actually said. It's all there--go back and read it.

    KAM Said:That's why it is so important to have the government in a proper role--as arbiter, NOT as insurer.

    See--I said the government SHOULD be the Arbiter. Just like I said all along. Now, it really can't get more simple than this, so if you still don't get it...well, then I cannot help you.

    KAM
    the government will still be the arbiter when the legislation passes. Nothing will change. The government wont be owning the exchanges they are setting up. the is no public option. What are you talking about? There is NO government owned healthcare plan in the talks. No public option.
  19. piaband's Avatar
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    #2519  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    There are other regulations as well, but yes, prosecuting fraud is one means of stopping this. For whatever reason, the government isn't doing a good job at that, and if someone wanted to strengthen the ability to streamline this to protect consumers from fraud, I'd be all for it.

    Here's a suggestion...slow down a bit, and you will perhaps find that I'm not the villain you are looking for.

    KAM
    Thats exactly what you are. you're a sheep propagating misinformation like the repubs do. Thats more dangerous than the insurance companies saying it, because they;ve gotten you to believe it.


    bottom line is this....the democrats healthcaer legislation is good for america, its good for americans, its good for businesses. I'm tired of hearing people complain about it. Its not perfect, nothing ever is. But its a BIG step in the right direction. People shouldnt be campaigning against something that will help so many people
  20. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2520  
    Quote Originally Posted by piaband View Post
    We've already agreed that healthcare is a right so your arguing it makes you sound very ignorant. If not, we wouldnt have medicaid.

    Really? we dont have a right to get something we NEED? Then why do we give out food stamps? Why do we give out welfare? Why does every single modern country in the world have universal healthcare except us? Are they all idiots? Wow, those suckers dont know what they're missing, huh?

    If we had universal healthcare for 10 years, you would think it was crazy how long we didnt have it. I promise you that.
    You have no right to healthcare, if you did, there would be no healthcare debate--you'd simply have it. So, obviously, this is not the case.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 03/01/2010 at 11:48 AM.

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