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  1. groovy's Avatar
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    #2081  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Simple math and comprehension in order to follow the OMB's logic is hardly obfuscating. However, being devoid of either renders you and buddy pretty much castrated on the subject. Except in the false-reality of Conservative-internet politics. Who do "neuvo"-Independents vote for? Either Republicans (if they are trying to win an election) or a 3rd-party candidate who won't ultimately make any difference.

    Yes, I assume alot. Such as that internet clowns are the minority, not the majority. You clearly challenge that premise.
    Here's the problem: I do believe there is a huge difference between "uninsured" and "cannot get insurance" and "uninsurable". Your initial post blasted me for my inability to see that the President was speaking about the "uninsurable" when he started the new "over 30 million" line. But nowhere in the OBM director's explanation did he mention "uninsurable". He stated that the numbers were reduced because the original 47 million number included non-American citizens ir legal residents as well as those who are eligible for government programs but, for whatever reason, to do not have insurance.

    So, your original premise, that the new "over 30 million" number is not new and only refers to uninsurable as defined by industry standards of uninsurable, is not supported by the very people the President relies upon to verify those numbers.

    Why is all this important? Because it proves that the 47 million uninsured number includes those who average Americans would never think should be included. It was being used in a very dishonest manner and I'm glad the President saw fit to bring his number a little closer to the truth. Personally, I don't think he's there yet.
  2. #2082  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    There was no indication that the patient died shortly thereafter in the president's remarks. If that was your assumption, it was your mistaken impression. Furthermore, what evidence exists to demonstrate that the patient "lived" versus survived another 3 1/2 years? I'd be curious to read nonpartisan information regarding his story.

    To state the female patient flatly "lied" is completely out of the bounds of reason. Any patient would not normally consider a case of acne to be prohibitive to receiving treatment for cancer. Furthermore, as I'm certain you are fully aware, treatment for cancer is an extremely time-sensitive issue which, if that window of opportunity is missed, can sentence a patient to an agonizing, slow death.
    Apparently you don't know how much acne medication can cost. I had a client recently whose daughter was taking medication for acne that was, according to her, $200 per month. I didn't verify that, but, maybe she was lieing to me? Also, if you READ the article, she also under reported her weight. I'm okay with these issues being thrown out, and pre-ex being covered, but this was not the insurance company just deciding to cancel someone's coverage. Just as with the Prez....she conveniently left out some information.

    And for you to say that it wasn't the intention of the Prez to make you think the man died shortly thereafter is just "who-ee" (to use a Hollings expression). I guess you were under the impression he died 10 years later? LOL Right...funny...I even chuckled when I wrote that one. Funny.
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  3. KAM1138
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    #2083  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    In fact, you ended "civility" when you began your crusade on Friday and continuing it last night by making multiple posts regarding me, primarily in the recent ACORN thread, personal and completely unrelated to the thread. You will note that they remain unresponded to, as they should, despite all your bait.
    Well, that's just another accusation, but if you feel you need to blame me to justify your hypocrisy, go ahead.

    KAM
  4. 1thing2add's Avatar
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    #2084  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Apparently you don't know how much acne medication can cost. I had a client recently whose daughter was taking medication for acne that was, according to her, $200 per month. I didn't verify that, but, maybe she was lieing to me? Also, if you READ the article, she also under reported her weight. I'm okay with these issues being thrown out, and pre-ex being covered, but this was not the insurance company just deciding to cancel someone's coverage. Just as with the Prez....she conveniently left out some information.
    The point of the WSJ article is that the female patient did not disclose her case of acne. There is no information, from the article or elsewhere, that cost had anything to do with why it was not disclosed. That would likely be another false assumption of your own making. The issue of the case of acne served as a trip-wire for the insurance company to cancel her coverage.

    And for you to say that it wasn't the intention of the Prez to make you think the man died shortly thereafter is just "who-ee" (to use a Hollings expression). I guess you were under the impression he died 10 years later? LOL Right...funny...I even chuckled when I wrote that one. Funny.
    Based upon what exact line in the president's remarks, what gave you this mistaken impression? I'm curious.

    It must be nice to be so cynical that you laugh at your fellow Americans dying unnecessarily.
  5. #2085  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    The point of the WSJ article is that the female patient did not disclose her case of acne. There is no information, from the article or elsewhere, that cost had anything to do with why it was not disclosed. That would likely be another false assumption of your own making. The issue of the case of acne served as a trip-wire for the insurance company to cancel her coverage.
    Noooo.....you don't get it. When an insurance company is looking at an application, if someone fails to mention things such as acne medication or weight, these are issues that would cause an insurance carrier to either deny coverage or rate it. If the acne medication that is currently being used is expensive, that is going to come into play as to how it was issued. You can't have someone just coming on board a private plan just when they need the coverage.....get treatment....then drop the coverage until it is needed again. Even if a public option is done, you can't allow people to come off and on the plan as they need it....that is why the government would have to make it mandatory. Geez....you just don't understand basic underwriting.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Based upon what exact line in the president's remarks, what gave you this mistaken impression? I'm curious.

    It must be nice to be so cynical that you laugh at your fellow Americans dying unnecessarily.
    I wasn't laughing at the patient that died....you said you were not under the impression that the man died fairly soon after the surgery (which wasn't late according the man's daughter in the Committee hearing), and I said it would have been nice if the Prez would have added that "...and he died 3 1/2 years later." Since you felt that wasn't a vital part of the story, I was laughing because you made it sound like that was irrelevant. Well what if it would have been 5 years later?....10 years?....20 years? At some point that becomes a relevant part of the story, doesn't it? I mean, he did get the surgery within the "window" needed, and he did live 3 1/2 yrs after the surgery.

    That is why I was under the impression he died shortly after the surgery....because what makes his death relevant to the story is that it could have been prevented if the surgery had not been delayed....that is what he was emphasizing...that his surgery was delayed and because of that he died....but....he died 3 1/2 years later.
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  6. 1thing2add's Avatar
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    #2086  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Noooo.....you don't get it. When an insurance company is looking at an application, if someone fails to mention things such as acne medication or weight, these are issues that would cause an insurance carrier to either deny coverage or rate it. If the acne medication that is currently being used is expensive, that is going to come into play as to how it was issued. You can't have someone just coming on board a private plan just when they need the coverage.....get treatment....then drop the coverage until it is needed again. Even if a public option is done, you can't allow people to come off and on the plan as they need it....that is why the government would have to make it mandatory. Geez....you just don't understand basic underwriting.
    Where is there any indication that the female patient was actively being treated for acne? I'm not saying this record doesn't exist, only that no one has shown that it does. Without it, everything else is unfounded speculation. There is a clear distinction of having a case of acne and being treated for acne. However, neither of which should have stood in the way of her receiving lifesaving treatment.

    Your assumptions, based upon your unfounded thin-air wishes, on my understanding of underwriting as well as how care is carried out in real terms, won't serve you well.

    I wasn't laughing at the patient that died....you said you were not under the impression that the man died fairly soon after the surgery (which wasn't late according the man's daughter in the Committee hearing), and I said it would have been nice if the Prez would have added that "...and he died 3 1/2 years later." Since you felt that wasn't a vital part of the story, I was laughing because you made it sound like that was irrelevant. Well what if it would have been 5 years later?....10 years?....20 years? At some point that becomes a relevant part of the story, doesn't it? I mean, he did get the surgery within the "window" needed, and he did live 3 1/2 yrs after the surgery.
    So, you cannot qualify if the patient thrived post-surgery or simply survived for 3 1/2 years, beyond the delay. Nor are you able to clarify how the president deceived. Thanks.
  7. 1thing2add's Avatar
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    #2087  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    Well, that's just another accusation, but if you feel you need to blame me to justify your hypocrisy, go ahead.

    KAM
    No accusations. Just unfortunate evidence of your crusade:

    discussion.treocentral.com/1886648-post20.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1886307-post13.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1886398-post17.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1886851-post24.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1887002-post35.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1891720-post77.html

    Let's move on, shall we?
  8. #2088  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Where is there any indication that the female patient was actively being treated for acne? I'm not saying this record doesn't exist, only that no one has shown that it does. Without it, everything else is unfounded speculation. There is a clear distinction of having a case of acne and being treated for acne. However, neither of which should have stood in the way of her receiving lifesaving treatment.

    Your assumptions, based upon your unfounded thin-air wishes, on my understanding of underwriting as well as how care is carried out in real terms, won't serve you well..
    Well, you will have to ask the Prez to clarify since he's the one that made the claim that she had a case of acne. Did you not listen to the speech nor read the article, apparently not....but....here is what he said:

    The president's second example was a Texas woman "about to get a double mastectomy when her insurance company canceled her policy because she forgot to declare a case of acne."
    You see, the quotes mean that is what the Prez said....so let's ask the Prez where he got that info from. Wait....are you saying the Prez lied???? Your lack of knowing your subject matter does not serve you well.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    So, you cannot qualify if the patient thrived post-surgery or simply survived for 3 1/2 years, beyond the delay. Nor are you able to clarify how the president deceived. Thanks.
    So, can you qualify that if the patient would have gotten the surgery 2 weeks earlier, that he would have "thrived post-surgery or simply survived" for say, 4 or 5 years? I gotta say I'm quite disappointed with your points, because, well, they have no point.
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  9. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2089  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    No accusations. Just unfortunate evidence of your crusade:

    discussion.treocentral.com/1886648-post20.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1886307-post13.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1886398-post17.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1886851-post24.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1887002-post35.html

    discussion.treocentral.com/1891720-post77.html

    Let's move on, shall we?
    You listed some of my posts. And? Its not as if I'm denying them. If my posts refer unfavorably to you or your posts or those like you...so be it.
    Crusade? Are you going to play the poor persecuted victim now?

    Take responsibility for your own posts, and don't blame me for your "incivility" towards a different poster.

    But go ahead--move on. No need to post to me at all.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 09/14/2009 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Additional point
  10. 1thing2add's Avatar
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    #2090  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Well, you will have to ask the Prez to clarify since he's the one that made the claim that she had a case of acne.
    Thanks for removing any doubt that you lack the facts, yet provide hard conclusions built on assumptions where this woman's care was concerned. Did you really expect the president to publicly display this woman's medical record?

    So, can you qualify that if the patient would have gotten the surgery 2 weeks earlier, that he would have "thrived post-surgery or simply survived" for say, 4 or 5 years?
    The fact is, any clinician directly involved could qualify that answer. In your racket, and as shown by your indifference to care for the patient, it matters little what a patient's MDs deem medically necessary.

    I gotta say I'm quite disappointed with your points, because, well, they have no point.
    If my points have no point, why do you take the childish pattern of using them by turning them around 180 degrees to defend yourself? If I'm unable to think for myself, why do you borrow my thoughts to begin with?
  11. #2091  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Thanks for removing any doubt that you lack the facts, yet provide hard conclusions built on assumptions where this woman's care was concerned. Did you really expect the president to publicly display this woman's medical record?
    Well...I didn't think I would get you to admit it, but you are likely correct....he made up the story to make a point. I would not put that past him.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    The fact is, any clinician directly involved could qualify that answer. In your racket, and as shown by your indifference to care for the patient, it matters little what a patient's MDs deem medically necessary.
    Don't take this the wrong way....but....I think you may need to take break. First, LOL, how would I have access to the "clinician directly involved to qualify that answer." And second, per the article from the transcript of a June 16 hearing on industry practices before the Subcommittee of Oversight and Investigation of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, the deceased's sister testified that the insurer reinstated her brother's coverage following intervention by the Illinois Attorney General's Office. She testified that her brother received a prescribed stem-cell transplant within the desired three- to four-week "window of opportunity" from "one of the most renowned doctors in the whole world on the specific routine," that the procedure "was extremely successful," and that "it extended his life nearly three and a half years."

    Now....I don't know these people and haven't had a chance today to call this woman (I'll do that later tonight, okay?) and ask additional questions about her brother, but if she said it was "extremely successful"....and I know you'll hate this assumption....but I'll go out on a limb and assume that meant it went well (extremely successful = went well).

    Whew.....would have been much easier if you had read the article

    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    If my points have no point, why do you take the childish pattern of using them by turning them around 180 degrees to defend yourself? If I'm unable to think for myself, why do you borrow my thoughts to begin with?
    Since your thoughts are so crazy I decided about the only way to communicate with you is to talk to you using your own thoughts.
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  12. #2092  
    Hey doc....a follow up to your questioning the Patton quote below. I think I mentioned that I happen to know General Patton's grandson. What are the odds? Anyway, he lives here in beautiful Mt. Pleasant, SC and I called him today and told him I needed a little verification of the quote. I read it to him and he laughed and said it sure sounded like him but that he did not know for sure. So, he emailed another family member who he says is the "family historian"....and....well....just got her reply. Guess what? He did say it. Now....I'm simply not going to put her name and email out here for everyone to see, as I doubt she would appreciate that and my friend would likely not be happy with me either. So, you can say I'm BSing you...after all....we don't know each other....but as long as I feel comfortable that he said it, I feel quite comfortable keeping it on here.

    You have to be asking yourself....", what are the odds he would actually know Patton's grandson." LOL Gotta love it. By the way, if you get in town some time, he has a very impressive display of General Patton memorabilia at his home....look me up....and I'll take you there!
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    #2093  
    On one positive note (No, actually 2), the "outspoken", esteemed Republican Representative from South Carolina, Joe Wilson, has acknowledged that there is, in fact, language in HR3200 to verify citizenship, thus preventing illegal immigrants from using "affordability credits" to acquire health insurance. Pg 132, Section 242.

    politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/joe-wilson/joe-wilson-south-carolina-said-obama-lied-he-didnt/

    factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/
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    #2094  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    On one positive note (No, actually 2), the "outspoken", esteemed Republican Representative from South Carolina, Joe Wilson, has acknowledged that there is, in fact, language in HR3200 to verify citizenship, thus preventing illegal immigrants from using "affordability credits" to acquire health insurance. Pg 132, Section 242.

    politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/joe-wilson/joe-wilson-south-carolina-said-obama-lied-he-didnt/

    factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/
    Maybe. Providing they aren't using a bogus Social Security number and providing they aren't granted amnesty en mass. But I'm sure our elected officials have thought that all out. Why question it?
  15. #2095  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    On one positive note (No, actually 2), the "outspoken", esteemed Republican Representative from South Carolina, Joe Wilson, has acknowledged that there is, in fact, language in HR3200 to verify citizenship, thus preventing illegal immigrants from using "affordability credits" to acquire health insurance. Pg 132, Section 242.

    politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/joe-wilson/joe-wilson-south-carolina-said-obama-lied-he-didnt/

    factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/
    That's old news....he acknowledged that up front....but if you read the bill, there was still no way to prevent illegals from enrolling . Again....no affordability credits....but yes to being able to enroll. The Prez has now apparently come out (after the famous "you lie" comment) and said they would add additional language to improve the ability to check for citizenship. So at the time Wilson made his comment.....the Prez was lying.

    By the way....just saw video of democrats in the chamber in the past stating that Bush had lied. Hmmm....missed that on the news when that happened. I guess it was the Sargeant at Arms (?) that then read to them that it was against house rules to call the Prez a liar. Wilson's apologized, the Prez accepted the apology, just let it go.

    But high-5 to my SC brother!
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    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  16. #2096  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Hey doc....a follow up to your questioning the Patton quote below. I think I mentioned that I happen to know General Patton's grandson. What are the odds? Anyway, he lives here in beautiful Mt. Pleasant, SC and I called him today and told him I needed a little verification of the quote. I read it to him and he laughed and said it sure sounded like him but that he did not know for sure. So, he emailed another family member who he says is the "family historian"....and....well....just got her reply. Guess what? He did say it. Now....I'm simply not going to put her name and email out here for everyone to see, as I doubt she would appreciate that and my friend would likely not be happy with me either. So, you can say I'm BSing you...after all....we don't know each other....but as long as I feel comfortable that he said it, I feel quite comfortable keeping it on here.

    You have to be asking yourself....", what are the odds he would actually know Patton's grandson." LOL Gotta love it. By the way, if you get in town some time, he has a very impressive display of General Patton memorabilia at his home....look me up....and I'll take you there!
    I'm sorry, but this is just another example of you believing what you want to believe. So because a supposed "historian" relative of Patton's says it's true, that makes it true? Unfortunately that is reflective of your naivete which has demonstrated itself regularly. When the actual source of the misattribution is stated, I think I'll believe that.

    I'd rather have a German division in front of me, than a French one behind.
    Misattributed by former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger on Fox News. Patton commanded French troops, the 2nd Armored Division commanded by Philippe Leclerc, integrated in the Third Army, and had rocky but friendly relations with the French general. For instance, on August, 15 1944 Patton wrote in his diary: "Leclerc came in very much excited. He said, among other things, that if he were not allowed to advance on Paris, he would resign. I told him in my best French that he was a baby and said I had left him in the most dangerous place on the front. We parted friends"
  17. #2097  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is just another example of you believing what you want to believe. So because a supposed "historian" relative of Patton's says it's true, that makes it true? Unfortunately that is reflective of your naivete which has demonstrated itself regularly. When the actual source of the misattribution is stated, I think I'll believe that.
    And how is you believing that it wasn't Patton any different than what Clem is saying. You're believing what you want and somehow that is better? Is it cause youre smarter or a doctor?

    If you believe in aliens and someone says they don't do you get all righteous on them about how you just know youre right? Like youre doing here?

    And youre dissing the relative too because you just know youre smarter than they are and Patton didnt say it. Wow. Do you treat your patients this way or are you just saving it for the folks who have a different opinion on this forum?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
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  18. #2098  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is just another example of you believing what you want to believe. So because a supposed "historian" relative of Patton's says it's true, that makes it true? Unfortunately that is reflective of your naivete which has demonstrated itself regularly. When the actual source of the misattribution is stated, I think I'll believe that.
    Comical....I actual get word from General Patton's relative, the person in the family that keeps such data and yet the doctor is correct. Classic! Once again....I bow down to your inability to admit to being wrong on anything, LOL. Have you ever been wrong? LOL I told my wife tonight that I was anxiously awaiting how you would claim they didn't know what their own grandfather said. I mean yes, that makes perfect sense....rather than believe the family of the man, put 100% trust in snopes. I figured you would wiggle out of it by saying you didn't believe that I actually know his grandson....but no....you just say they are incorrect about what their grandfather said. Classic "I'm a doctor and you're not" mentality! I've said this before, but geez, would hate to be your patient. Is a patient ever allowed to disagree with you? LOL
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    #2099  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    That's old news....he acknowledged that up front....
    Wilson made no such acknowledgment until last Friday. At the same time that he acknowledged that the language already existed in HR3200 to prevent illegals from obtaining insurance.

    but if you read the bill, there was still no way to prevent illegals from enrolling .
    This is your assumption as the Bill, itself, says no such thing. Anywhere.

    But high-5 to my SC brother
    Save it for your next Civil War reenactment.
  20. #2100  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Save it for your next Civil War reenactment.
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