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  1. #2001  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    The swastika means very different things to Jewish people and non-Jews. Does that make it acceptable, or should Jewish folks just get over it?
    I've also heard some blacks say the American flag offends them because they were mistreated under that flag, should we get rid of that to? However, since the flag in question, the Confederate Flag, is not an official flag of a country or a state anymore, I don't see the point to your connection to the swastika. I also don't own a swastika flag, but is it illegal to have it outside your house? I wouldn't recommend it....but....not sure....is it illegal? There are many black rap songs that offend me, but I make the decision to turn the channel or turn it off. Blacks are just looking for something to blame their problems on. Things would be sooooo much better for them if that damn flag was gone!
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  2. #2002  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Blacks are just looking for something to blame their problems on.
    Very telling statement. It may be illustrative of exactly why you don't understand why black people don't understand the symbolism of the Confederate Flag, or why they may be offended if white people use the "n word". It may also explain quite a bit about why logic and data don't work, when discussing any of our president's policies.

    It may be the most sad and ugly post I've read on these boards. If any thread deserves closing, this is the one.
    Last edited by Bujin; 09/12/2009 at 09:52 PM.
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  3. #2003  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    [...] If any thread deserves closing, this is the one.
    Or you could rise above the nonsense, and offer your opinions on the Healthy Americans Act.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #2004  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Very telling statement. It may be illustrative of exactly why you don't understand why black people don't understand the symbolism of the Confederate Flag, or why they may be offended if white people use the "n word". It may also explain quite a bit about why logic and data don't work, when discussing any of our president's policies.

    It may be the most sad and ugly post I've read on these boards. If any thread deserves closing, this is the one.
    Looks like one of our black state senators understands that rather than trying to use the Confederate Flag as a divide, he is trying to get a holiday to celebrate the history of the Confederacy to bring blacks and whites together. Interesting concept....trying to bring people together by learning about their differences. Things such as this will make race relations better, not worse. Robert Ford is from Charleston and I don't agree with him often, but he is on target with this.

    Uncle Tom or Racial Healer? | News | BET.com

    You can call me a racist all you want, but I happen to believe that there should be no differences between blacks and whites. It's people such as yourself that make relations worse by continueing to point to the differences. It's time to stop playing the race card in our society....that makes YOU the racist.
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    #2005  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    It's not about the number of those uninsured. It's about the cost of providing treatment to those who are uninsured and under-insured. One of the primary points being that those without insurance are not seen until their illness is more advanced, therefore more advanced and more costly tests and treatment are required. Who ultimately bares that economic burden within our current system? Every single one of us. So, if anyone wants to scream "Socialism" again, you're already guilty of being a willing participant. To take a stand against the current system requires one to refuse to pay federal and state/municipal taxes again. However, this is not a new revelation.

    The cost of treating the uninsured, compounded by the private insurance industry business model which has the motivation and practice to outlay as little on a per-case basis as possible, is bankrupting our healthcare delivery system.
    So, then, if its about dollars and cents perhaps we can cease with the claim that any amount of uninsured is too many. Because, on a cost basis, that surely isn't the case. Furthermore, all of this discussion about the real number of uninsured really does matter.
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    #2006  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    So, then, if its about dollars and cents perhaps we can cease with the claim that any amount of uninsured is too many. Because, on a cost basis, that surely isn't the case. Furthermore, all of this discussion about the real number of uninsured really does matter.
    To be perfectly clear, I was only speaking for myself within my own opinion. As a basic matter of principle, I agree that having 1 person without the ability to obtain healthcare is an afront to what is American ... In the same way that there should be no person in America who is without food or shelter. That, however, is not where a policy begins. "It's the healthcare economy, stupid" is more the foundation of this argument, IMO.

    You can continue to twist in the wind by distorting the figures on the uninsured (30M by your new definition), if you so care to. It does not help your position one single bit, but that's your choice to make.
  7. #2007  
    A major illness such as cancer does not require health insurance. No one is denied treatment because of not having it. Goodness and hospitals and doctors to take payments.

    As for Gates having insurance? Why should he pay for something he may not need and obviously with his income could easily cover out of his pocket? Does not make sense.

    Yeah, maybe it does need changes, but the government is not the answer. Barry is not the answer. Nancy is not the answer. The list of who is not the answer is long and it even includes the tax cheats on the government pay roll.

    Breaking the bank over less than 2% of the population, what a way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    It could also be that you're oversimplifying things. What are their survival rates for things like cancer? It's expensive to treat, and with our views on what should and shouldn't be covered by insurance, the expenditures can add up pretty quickly.
  8. groovy's Avatar
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    #2008  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    You can continue to twist in the wind by distorting the figures on the uninsured (30M by your new definition), if you so care to. It does not help your position one single bit, but that's your choice to make.
    Its actually the president's new definition. And, unfortunately, you're wrong. History shows that the public option proposal has gained traction partly due to those inflated numbers. One might argue now that it is firmly implanted into the national psyche, they can back those numbers down and say "Hey, it doesn't matter what the numbers are, any number is too large."

    Its all a perception game anyway. Sort of like the deficit. In reality, a difference of two trillion dollars is beyond enormous--its mind boggling. But, the only number people can really relate to is the single digit at the beginning. So, once you pass the trillion mark it doesn't really matter whether its seven trillion or nine trillion.
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    #2009  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Its actually the president's new definition. And, unfortunately, you're wrong.
    Your oblique view on this reminds me of Maria Bartiromo of CNBC asking a 44 year old Congressman "If Medicare is so great, why aren't you on it?"

    Yes, what you're missing is that obvious.
  10. #2010  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Your oblique view on this reminds me of Maria Bartiromo of CNBC asking a 44 year old Congressman "If Medicare is so great, why aren't you on it?"

    Yes, what you're missing is that obvious.
    It's amazing of how little your posts say. Care to answer the reporters question? If Medicare is so great why arent you on it?

    What is Groovy missing? For those of us not as smart and perceptive as you.

    Also would you PM your address and/or credit card number. Since you are so willing to pay for everyone's health plan, will you pay for mine? I'm tired of the bill and don't want to pay it any more. You won't let me lose my health insurance will you?
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  11. 1thing2add's Avatar
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    #2011  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    Care to answer the reporters question? If Medicare is so great why arent you on it?

    What is Groovy missing? For those of us not as smart and perceptive as you.
    Priceless!
  12. groovy's Avatar
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    #2012  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    Your oblique view on this reminds me of Maria Bartiromo of CNBC asking a 44 year old Congressman "If Medicare is so great, why aren't you on it?"

    Yes, what you're missing is that obvious.
    Which is?
  13. #2013  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    But, it all goes back to "you get what you pay for".
    This begs pointing out the numerous denied claims and denied coverage examples out there eh?
  14. 1thing2add's Avatar
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    #2014  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Which is?
    You continue to confuse the definition of the total "uninsured" (@ ~47M) with the definition of "uninsurable" (@ ~30M). You don't even have a figleaf to hide behind on that argument.
  15. #2015  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof View Post
    It's amazing of how little your posts say. Care to answer the reporters question? If Medicare is so great why arent you on it?

    What is Groovy missing? For those of us not as smart and perceptive as you.

    Also would you PM your address and/or credit card number. Since you are so willing to pay for everyone's health plan, will you pay for mine? I'm tired of the bill and don't want to pay it any more. You won't let me lose my health insurance will you?

    Ahhhh. This explains a lot. It appears that many of those people who are opposed to Medicare have no idea whatsoever of what it is and what it does. Which is why they should either shut up or do some reading.
  16. #2016  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Ahhhh. This explains a lot. It appears that many of those people who are opposed to Medicare have no idea whatsoever of what it is and what it does. Which is why they should either shut up or do some reading.
    Easy doc.....I know when Medicare starts and what it does. I also know many people who don't deal with it on a regular basis, like you and me, would likely not have a reason no know much about it. But just because a person may not know the exact workings of Medicare is no reason to tell them to shut up. We could have said that about many of our Congressman who were so ready to vote on HR3200 without having read it. Should we tell them to shut up? Or, maybe you would agree that the folks at the town hall meetings who told their representatives to read it were right on? You sure have a short temper....ease up....your Gators looked good yesterday....easy does it.
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  17. #2017  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Easy doc.....I know when Medicare starts and what it does. I also know many people who don't deal with it on a regular basis, like you and me, would likely not have a reason no know much about it. But just because a person may not know the exact workings of Medicare is no reason to tell them to shut up. We could have said that about many of our Congressman who were so ready to vote on HR3200 without having read it. Should we tell them to shut up? Or, maybe you would agree that the folks at the town hall meetings who told their representatives to read it were right on? You sure have a short temper....ease up....your Gators looked good yesterday....easy does it.
    You're wrong. This is exactly the point. We have people expounding on the negative aspects of Medicare who have no idea what it is and what it does, who it's for, how it works, and the weak and strong points of it. To them it's just a government healthcare program. Of course, it's one that is extraordinarily well-liked, allows freedom of choice of physicians, pays back reimbursements faster than private companies, and nobody wants to give it up. Even more pathetic are the legislators who do know what it is and misrepresent it....and these are the ones who are very happy with their public option.
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    #2018  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    But just because a person may not know the exact workings of Medicare is no reason to tell them to shut up.
    "Exact workings"? That's just a bad joke, right? Anyone who is supposedly informed on healthcare issues who has to ask the same, humiliating question that Maria Bartiromo asked the 44-year old congressman ["If Medicare is so great, why aren't you on it?"] needs to learn alot more before going down the healthcare reform road.
  19. groovy's Avatar
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    #2019  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1thing2add View Post
    You continue to confuse the definition of the total "uninsured" (@ ~47M) with the definition of "uninsurable" (@ ~30M). You don't even have a figleaf to hide behind on that argument.
    The problem is that the OMB director does not agree with you. Excuse me if I put a little more stock in his explanation.

    http://blog.kaiserhealthnews.org/index.php/2009/09/11/censuring-the-census/
  20. #2020  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    You're wrong. This is exactly the point. We have people expounding on the negative aspects of Medicare who have no idea what it is and what it does, who it's for, how it works, and the weak and strong points of it. To them it's just a government healthcare program. Of course, it's one that is extraordinarily well-liked, allows freedom of choice of physicians, pays back reimbursements faster than private companies, and nobody wants to give it up. Even more pathetic are the legislators who do know what it is and misrepresent it....and these are the ones who are very happy with their public option.
    Well remember doc, not every physician accepts Medicare patients....and I sent you an article not toooo long ago that did discuss how many doctors were dropping such patients because they could not operate on such low reimbursements. So, yes they can go to a list of physicians, but your pre-Medicare doctor may not be on that list. And of course nobody wants to give it up....they paid for it over the course of their working career, they expected to have it, and it's cheap. It's wonderful...except....it's going bankrupt, LOL. I know that is irrelevant to many, especially liberals, but it is a fact, it is going bankrupt and can't last in it's current form.
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