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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Give me a more defined question, and I'll answer it the best I can.
    What's your perception of what's happening in Iran and what would you hope to be the results?
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    #22  
    Is this a private conversation, or can anyone play?

    I think there was a big hope (with small expectations of success) that the protests in Iran could lead to the overthrow of a repressive regime.... and possibly dodging the nuclear showdown that seems inevitable.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Is this a private conversation, or can anyone play?

    I think there was a big hope (with small expectations of success) that the protests in Iran could lead to the overthrow of a repressive regime.... and possibly dodging the nuclear showdown that seems inevitable.
    So you perceived the "opposition" as being outside of the current Islamic gov't?

    edited to add:
    And opposed to the Nation's nuclear program?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    What's your perception of what's happening in Iran and what would you hope to be the results?
    Possible a younger generation wanting a change from the established cleric type rule. Thing like the vice police that arrest women for not properly covering their head or the way they dress, is a bit much.

    Mousavi seems like more of a reformer and has more of a willingness to talk to the West. He was part of the 79 Revolution so he's not going to be on a secret Western payroll by any means.

    Iran will remain an Islamic state, but a more liberal one with Mousavi. Hopefully a resolution to the nuclear issue with UN inspectors. Less government spending on support of Hezbollah.
    Last edited by palandri; 06/23/2009 at 03:15 PM.
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    So you perceived the "opposition" as being outside of the current Islamic gov't?

    edited to add:
    And opposed to the Nation's nuclear program?
    Not sure what you mean by "opposition". The adversary to the current president? My understanding is that he's just as interested in the nuclear program, but wants to lessen the anti-west rhetoric. His platform is more pro-west, for economic reasons.... not political.

    Neither one of them are good news for us, or (imho), for the Iranian people. The real power, and problem, in Iran are with the mulah's.

    If you're talking about the demonstrators, I think that most are in support of the "opposition". My small hope was that the pro-democracy students could take advantage of the situation and cause an overthrow of the theocrastic regime and maybe... just maybe... a democracy could be born.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Possible a younger generation wanting a change from the established cleric type rule. Thing like the vice police that arrest women for not properly covering their head or the way they dress, is a bit much.

    Mousavi seems like more of a reformer and has more of a willingness to talk to the West. He was part of the 79 Revolution so he's not going to be on a secret Western payroll by any means.

    Iran will remain an Islamic state, but a more liberal one with Mousavi. Hopefully a resolution to the nuclear issue with UN inspectors. Less government spending on support of Hezbollah.
    I see a lot of "hopefully"s in that response. His campaign did have a platform. Did you note what the actual differences were between the two candidates? And you are aware that the Iranian Presidential role is more like a CEO acting on the decisions of the Board (the Supreme Leader)?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "opposition". The adversary to the current president? My understanding is that he's just as interested in the nuclear program, but wants to lessen the anti-west rhetoric. His platform is more pro-west, for economic reasons.... not political.

    Neither one of them are good news for us, or (imho), for the Iranian people. The real power, and problem, in Iran are with the mulah's.

    If you're talking about the demonstrators, I think that most are in support of the "opposition". My small hope was that the pro-democracy students could take advantage of the situation and cause an overthrow of the theocrastic regime and maybe... just maybe... a democracy could be born.
    Although I always, always, ALWAYS would prefer to see a secular gov't replace a non-secular, including Israel , the "opposition" had very litlle to no interest in that as a political goal.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I see a lot of "hopefully"s in that response. His campaign did have a platform. Did you note what the actual differences were between the two candidates? And you are aware that the Iranian Presidential role is more like a CEO acting on the decisions of the Board (the Supreme Leader)?
    I noted the differences in the two major candidates. Some of Mousavi major issues were:

    Freedom of information in their society - The importance of freedom of the press and media

    Their nuclear program - Emphasis on peaceful purposes and a willingness to talk to other countries about it.

    Relations with the US - He still thinks that the US is not a friend of Iran, but starting a relationship with the US is not taboo, with the current administration.

    Their current government structure has the clerics as the ultimate authority.
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I see a lot of "hopefully"s in that response.
    You did ask him what his hopes were.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    You did ask him what his hopes were.
    Point. I was simply pointing out the seeming differences in the "hopes" of observers and the actual goals of the vying political groups in the current drama in Iran.
  11. #31  
    So daThomas, what's your reaction/thoughts on the events in Iran?
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Their current government structure has the clerics as the ultimate authority.
    Mousavi's government would be the same.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Although I always, always, ALWAYS would prefer to see a secular gov't replace a non-secular, including Israel , the "opposition" had very litlle to no interest in that as a political goal.
    So you don't see a complete overhaul as a possibility?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    You could be very correct. Do you know of any surveys that have been done to show what the average Iranian civilian thinks of the US?
    One was done recently with 1000 random calls being made to citizens. 68% wanted to return to normal relations with the US.

    Read the report here
    http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/up...y%20Report.pdf

    I found the article via CNN.
    Neil
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    #35  
    I love today's Bad Reporter.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Mousavi's government would be the same.
    Correct, but given the current events, the people should now see the downfall of this structure.

    I also just saw this: Mousavi wife leads fight against election defeat Mousavi wife leads fight against election defeat | Special Coverage | Reuters

    ...and today she said, ...Zahra Rahnavard, who campaigned beside her husband, Mir Hossein Mousavi says it is “as if martial law has been imposed in the streets”.... Live: outbreaks of violence reported in Iran - Times Online

    What if Mousavi wife let a march of women to the grave of Neda Agha Soltan? Would they stop or attack the women? If they did, it would be a disgrace.

    Could it be this revolutionary change is going to be made to happen by women?

    There I go meddling again.
    Last edited by palandri; 06/24/2009 at 09:58 AM.
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  17. #37  
    'This is a massacre!'

    LiveLeak.com - 'This is a massacre!'
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    If Obama decided to send in troops right now to assist the overthrow of this regime, I'd support him. Fat chance that happening. He's too worried he won't have a chance to sit down with these murderers and appease them. I'm starting to wonder if he's a wimp.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Given the long history of the U.S.'s meddling in Iran, it would be nuts of them not to think so. That's exactly why Pres Obama isn't making a lot of meaningless statements in support of either political side in Iran. To do so would easily allow the other side to then label their opposition a tool of the U.S.
    Incredibly ironic, given the Iranian regime's penchant for meddling heavily in the internal politics of other countries in the region (Iraq, Lebanon, Palestinian territories).
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    If Obama decided to send in troops right now to assist the overthrow of this regime, I'd support him. Fat chance that happening. He's too worried he won't have a chance to sit down with these murderers and appease them. I'm starting to wonder if he's a wimp.
    Are they worse than the Military junta in Burma?

    If it's as bad as we are seeing in our media, the first thing that will happen is a peoples Muhajeen (militia) will form and a civil war will break out.
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