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  1. Mr Bigs's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    This is way off topic, but I have to respond.

    Being a blue collar, working class, Union Electrician, that is the most outrageous statement I have ever read.

    You just got laid off from CitiCorp, where their good old boy executives were reaping in million of dollars in bonuses while at the same time getting government bailout money. I truly hope you weren't making more than minimum wage at CitiCorp or else you were probably part of their outrageous labor cost.

    Look at Levi Strauss. They closed their last US factory in San Antoinio, Texas due to labor cost. You had Union seamstresses making $17 an hour. Can you believe these low life, blue collar, working class people were making that much money? .. and to top it off, they wanted Levi Strauss to pay for healthcare, how outrageous is that?

    ..and look at the auto workers, these low life's want to make a middle class income of $25 an hour. Sorry, you can blame them for the car design, they don't design them, they only assemble them.

    All our factories are going south of the boarder for cheaper labor, and look at what's happened there now. Left wing governments are being democratically elected. That was totally predictable.

    Labor Unions are just as important today as they ever were, because corporations are just as dedicated to their bottom line, regardless of the consequences for workers.
    A++++ I am also an I.B.E.W Electrician and grow quite tired of schooling people like this to the importance of organized labor and the benefits many non union workers gain from it like overtime and a 5 day work week. The whole Big 3 crisis had nothing to do with the UAW,all of their wages were negotiated and granted because it was there. The failure came from corporate greed and intentional planned obsolescence and failure of vehicles to keep a purchasing process ongoing pretty much right after you finish paying for it. The Japanese took a different approach to this which was more long term life expectancy and people got a taste of it and wanted more. Too reward and give large bonuses to poor performing top hats is what killed the Big 3 and caused the whole Wall St mess.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    ...This country is about the individual, and individual rights. This whole "collective union" think thing is about socialism (and I mean that term in the nicest possible way).
    That statement clearly defines the difference between us. You are always thinking "me" and I am always thinking "we".
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  3. Mr Bigs's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    That statement clearly defines the difference between us. You are always thinking "me" and I am always thinking "we".
    This is exactly what Unions try to prevent and people don't get it. Honestly don't waste your time on people from some of the southern states because they don't get it.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bigs View Post
    This is exactly what Unions try to prevent and people don't get it. Honestly don't waste your time on people from some of the southern states because they don't get it.
    It's attitudes like that that keep the jobs flowing in that direction...
  5. Micael's Avatar
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       #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Get realistic. What do they see on their paycheck every week to live on?
    I am being realistic. Regardless of their paycheck, thats what the employer is paying them per hour, just not all in cash. It's deferred to a retirement account, benefits accounts... someone pays for the bennys Palandri... and eventually it gets passed on to the consumer, if they haven't been chased off to a non-union competitor.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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       #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    That statement clearly defines the difference between us. You are always thinking "me" and I am always thinking "we".
    Nice noble sentiment... meanwhile you've driven the cost to produce goods through the roof, chased off the customers, and destroyed "we" in the end.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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       #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by brett.g View Post
    It's attitudes like that that keep the jobs flowing in that direction...
    The Texas jobs market is booming compared to the other states. It's slowed just recently, but who's to wonder with all the wonderful news.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. ardoreal's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The Texas jobs market is booming compared to the other states. It's slowed just recently, but who's to wonder with all the wonderful news.
    I could easily argue that, during our retrofit probably 1/4 of the the contractors came to Colorado from Texas where they've been shutting various types of plants down left-and-right.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I am being realistic. Regardless of their paycheck, thats what the employer is paying them per hour, just not all in cash. It's deferred to a retirement account, benefits accounts... someone pays for the bennys Palandri... and eventually it gets passed on to the consumer, if they haven't been chased off to a non-union competitor.
    No you aren't being realistic. You are acting like people who want healthcare and a retirement account through their employment are being unreasonable. Don't forget that part of the healthcare cost goes to the retired workers healthcare fund. It's a brotherhood thing that you wouldn't understand. Like I said, you think me, I think we. We'll never agree.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Nice noble sentiment... meanwhile you've driven the cost to produce goods through the roof, chased off the customers, and destroyed "we" in the end.
    It all done through a negotiation process. We always make sure that we monitor how the company is doing financially. We want the company to do well and make money. Then everybody is happy.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  11. #51  
    Honestly Micael, you should debate Rush Limbaugh on national TV. You'd put him to shame and put the Republican party on a new track!
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  12. ardoreal's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bigs View Post
    A++++ I am also an I.B.E.W Electrician and grow quite tired of schooling people like this to the importance of organized labor and the benefits many non union workers gain from it like overtime and a 5 day work week. The whole Big 3 crisis had nothing to do with the UAW,all of their wages were negotiated and granted because it was there. The failure came from corporate greed and intentional planned obsolescence and failure of vehicles to keep a purchasing process ongoing pretty much right after you finish paying for it. The Japanese took a different approach to this which was more long term life expectancy and people got a taste of it and wanted more. Too reward and give large bonuses to poor performing top hats is what killed the Big 3 and caused the whole Wall St mess.
    I work in an IBEW local also, and every day I go to work and see lazy employees whose jobs are protected by the Union, I see the evidence more and more that IBEW as well as all other unions are destroying themselves. That and IBEW doesn't do squat for several departments, whom have had extra responsibility added and are on the same level as much lower responsible departments.

    It's a backwards self-righteous organization, prancing around with its own delusions of self-grandeur displaying how it's this great paragon of virtue. The truth is that the IBEW is the reason our core employee levels are at an all time low and more contractors work onsite getting screwed.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    That statement clearly defines the difference between us. You are always thinking "me" and I am always thinking "we".
    This statement clearly defines the problem with humans. Too many people that _always_ think 'X'.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bigs View Post
    Honestly don't waste your time on people from some of the southern states because they don't get it.
    No wonder unions do so well down here.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    This statement clearly defines the problem with humans. Too many people that _always_ think 'X'.
    It depends on what "X" equals.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    It depends on what "X" equals.
    Doesn't matter, really. Anyone who always 'thinks' any specific thing clearly isn't thinking.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Doesn't matter, really. Anyone who always 'thinks' any specific thing clearly isn't thinking.
    I disagree, but I respect your opinion!
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I disagree, but I respect your opinion!
    That's actually a tad insulting. If one always has a predefined opinion, they aren't thinking by definition. They're reacting. You are not in fact respecting my opinion. You are patronizing. Situations are _never_ constant. What one thinks is going to depend on the situation.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    That's actually a tad insulting. If one always has a predefined opinion, they aren't thinking by definition. They're reacting. You are not in fact respecting my opinion. You are patronizing. Situations are _never_ constant. What one thinks is going to depend on the situation.
    There is no insult insinuated in the least bit in my response. I totally respect your opinion. Period.

    Maybe we are looking at two different equations. I am looking at an equation that has two choices, maybe you are looking at an equation that has multiple choices. I am not.

    Given the choice of good or bad, I am going to always choose good. Given the choice between life or death, I am always going to choose life.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  20. #60  
    Palandri, do you also respect Micael's opinion? From reading below, it is not apparent you do. Have you listened to the opposing view point in any detail? If not, do so. Rush Limbaugh and others like him do make a habit of having the facts behind them to support their statements. Limbaugh rarely makes statements like Tom Shales (Obama intelligent and does not want to take over the automobile companies, et cetera - Despite Stumbles, WaPo's Tom Shales Still Calls Obama 'Smartest Kid in Class' | NewsBusters.org) and Michael Beschloss with his statement that Obama is our smartest president - Obama Is Our Smartest President? On Freedom’s Wings.

    So again, do you respect his opinion?



    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Honestly Micael, you should debate Rush Limbaugh on national TV. You'd put him to shame and put the Republican party on a new track!
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