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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The consumer goes somewhere else. Example: GM and Chrysler
    I guess you weren't around when they started to enforce antitrust laws. At one point in time ITT got so big, that they not only monopolized the telecommunications business, they started monopolizing other sections of the economy. At one point in time when you bought a package of Hostess Twinkies, it's said made by Consolidated Bakeries, a subsidiary of ITT.

    If you are a true Keynesian economist, you know that monopolization is never a good thing. That's what they are looking into with cell phones.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by pavvento View Post

    Can the OP post a link to the article that's being discussed?
    I'm not the OP but, I read the article on phonescoop.com. I tried to post the link but I need to get my post count up.
  3. #43  
    I also saw it in the Chicago SunTimes, but I'll be darned if I can find it now.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The consumer goes somewhere else. Example: GM and Chrysler
    Ah, spoken like someone with a true understanding of history and economics both. Not.

    It's very specifically the lack of regulation that got us into the recession that finally caused GM and Chrysler to collapse.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  5. #45  
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  6. #46  
    I find it funny that you guys think that someone or a company should provide a service w/o endering a legally binding contract. No one is twisting your arm to enter into a cell providers contract. If you dont want the service provided from the larger carriers the require contracts then try out cricket or boost mobile. They cant afford to have the coverage or plans that larger companies do like sprint because they cant bank on the money coming in because of their turn over rate w customers. Hense the 2 yr contract.

    I agree that this is more of the government crossing the line on our rights. We were a country founded on freedoms and slowly but surely they have found little ways to take that away. No one said that a free country would opperate perfectly but when the government poaches on what i can and cant do....thats where i get irritated.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by stuntingace View Post
    I find it funny that you guys think that someone or a company should provide a service w/o endering a legally binding contract. No one is twisting your arm to enter into a cell providers contract. If you dont want the service provided from the larger carriers the require contracts then try out cricket or boost mobile. They cant afford to have the coverage or plans that larger companies do like sprint because they cant bank on the money coming in because of their turn over rate w customers. Hense the 2 yr contract.
    If you buy a phone outright, you can get a month to month contract. If it's a CDMA phone it's locked to that carrier. You can't take a Sprint Palm Pre and get it activated on the Verizon network.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuntingace View Post
    I agree that this is more of the government crossing the line on our rights. We were a country founded on freedoms and slowly but surely they have found little ways to take that away. No one said that a free country would opperate perfectly but when the government poaches on what i can and cant do....thats where i get irritated.
    This has nothing to do with government telling you what you can and can't do. It's about giving you the consumer more options. Giving the consumer more freedom.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Then who will protect the consumer?
    Protect the consumer from what? Force? Fraud? His own decisions?
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    It's very specifically the lack of regulation that got us into the recession that finally caused GM and Chrysler to collapse.
    That's the single most uninformed statement I've read all month.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    Protect the consumer from what? Force? Fraud? His own decisions?
    No, monopolization. That's never a good thing in what is suppose to be a free market economy.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    If you are a true Keynesian economist, you know that monopolization is never a good thing.
    If you're a true Keynesian economist, then you're contributing to the destruction of the American economy.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    If you're a true Keynesian economist, then you're contributing to the destruction of the American economy.
    How am I doing that?

    By the way, I enjoy your blog! It's well written and well thought out.
    Last edited by palandri; 06/16/2009 at 04:43 PM.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    We use the word "force" for the wrong things, to our peril. Sprint doesn't force you to do anything, as in, put a gun to your head. They also don't commit fraud--they're perfectly up-front about their requirements.

    No, they simply offer you a deal and you can either take it or not. You may not be happy about the deal they offer, but hey, that's what it means to live in a free society. If government forces Sprint (as in, puts a gun to their heads, because that's what government does, by definition) to change their terms, then this strips Sprint of their individual rights and you of yours.
    By denying you use of popular phones unless you buy an expensive plan, you are being denied consumer choice. It is a roundabout way of forcing you to take it or leave it unless you play by their rules.

    Not only that, but they really are NOT upfront that they won't allow you to actually use unlimited data(at least AT&T isn't, can't say about Sprint) but yet that's what you're paying extra for, unlimited data. They need to dump the term "unlimited" and be more honest.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    The consumer goes somewhere else. Example: GM and Chrysler
    The consumer doesn't have too much choice here unless they go for small carriers, which then means not enough national coverage if you need that. Big US carriers have ridiculous restrictions. T-Mobile is a bit less restrictive though. But looking at Euro carriers, there's so much more choice so it's a lot easier to go elsewhere.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    How am I doing that?

    By the way, I enjoy your blog! It's well written and well thought out.
    Thanks re: the blog.

    Re: the Keynesian bit, it's Keynesians who support massive deficit spending, aggressive monetary policy (well, that's not so much classical Keynes, but still), government intervention, etc. The banking/finance/lending crisis was caused by the Fed's easy money policies, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, the Community Reinvestment Act, etc. etc., all in an industry that's one of the most heavily regulated in the world. It's remarkable that so many people think this crisis was caused by a lack of regulations, when there are literally 10's of thousands of regulations on the books that govern our financial industry.

    Of course, the trillions of dollars that are being essentially printed and borrowed as we speak will have a devastating effect on our economy in a few years. Don't be surprised if a loaf of bread costs $50 in a few years--hyperinflation is a very real possibility, and some very high level of inflation is unavoidable. Keynes's theories caused and prolonged the Great Depression, and we're about to experience their influence again.

    My apologies if I've come across as abrupt. Not a great deal of time to expand on things at the moment, and this stuff burns me up a bit.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by stuntingace View Post
    I find it funny that you guys think that someone or a company should provide a service w/o endering a legally binding contract. No one is twisting your arm to enter into a cell providers contract. If you dont want the service provided from the larger carriers the require contracts then try out cricket or boost mobile. They cant afford to have the coverage or plans that larger companies do like sprint because they cant bank on the money coming in because of their turn over rate w customers. Hense the 2 yr contract.

    I agree that this is more of the government crossing the line on our rights. We were a country founded on freedoms and slowly but surely they have found little ways to take that away. No one said that a free country would opperate perfectly but when the government poaches on what i can and cant do....thats where i get irritated.
    It's deceptive high priced contracts that I'M complaining about. However they do provide service without a contract, it's just good business to do so.

    And it's the CARRIERS that are telling you what you can and can't do. Now whether government should force better consumer options, well it's either that or big class action lawsuits are going to end up happening sooner or later. And those are another can of worms. Which is the lesser of the 2 evils? I would rather the carriers see that government is going to regulate and then they rush to offer better options BEFOREHAND, to fend off the government. It may suck, but regulation threats can be effective.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by gabbott View Post
    ...
    But back to the main topic, I dont think this is something that the government needs to be getting involved in. Is this really a big issue?
    at first I thought the same thing- but read into it some more- I did and and I think it's sort of legit. Notice the republican guy is from a rural state, Mississipi

    basically the beef isn't about att, verizon, sprint and t-mobile hosing each other. It's about the 2nd and 3rd tier carriers in the middle of nowhere that can't get access to a decent phone. There's rural places where the big boys wont even sell you a phone because they can't give you coverage and the dont want the hassle (there's a story around here lately from someone in the middle of vermont as an example that can't get served by some of the big boys).

    So if we are lucky and live in the more populated areas and want an Iphone then we can get att or want a pre we can get sprint. But down in podunk, bo and luke's cellular which is the only game in town has nothing but 3 year old handsets to sell you.

    Doesn't seem right to the poor folks in the middle of the sticks. But I'm not sure how to help them without being stupid. Maybe make it a law that unlocked devices have to be made availible so the people in the middle of nowhere can at least have the option to plunk down 700 bucks for an iphone or a pre?
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I guess you weren't around when they started to enforce antitrust laws. At one point in time ITT got so big, that they not only monopolized the telecommunications business, they started monopolizing other sections of the economy. At one point in time when you bought a package of Hostess Twinkies, it's said made by Consolidated Bakeries, a subsidiary of ITT.

    If you are a true Keynesian economist, you know that monopolization is never a good thing. That's what they are looking into with cell phones.
    last I checked FOUR national carriers- does not equal a monopoly.

    When att and verizon buy up the little dinks- the FCC forces them to sell off towers in areas where they would begin to create a monopoly.

    Seems of late it's actually perhaps becoming a duopoly with ATT and verizon buying all the smaller companies, new bandwidth, and even making deals with each other to "split up" the dinks they buy to make the FCC happy. But it's a far far cry from being a monopoly. And maybe the FCC should watch that a little closer.

    T-mobile seems like maybe they are gving up- but seems sprint isn't going down without a fight- so there should probably be 3 major US carriers for a long while.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd View Post
    last I checked FOUR national carriers- does not equal a monopoly.
    They are sure getting the attention of congress at this point.

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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    Ah, spoken like someone with a true understanding of history and economics both. Not.

    It's very specifically the lack of regulation that got us into the recession that finally caused GM and Chrysler to collapse.

    apparently there were a lot of people asleep in economics and history.

    GM and chrysler died cause they SUCK and have been making crappy business decisions for 30+ years. The current recession (which the lack of finanacial regulation certainly was a major factor) merely put the last of hundreds and hundreds of nails in their coffin.

    if you suck then people go elsewhere- in this case they went to foreign car companies. Many of whom made their cars in the US but just had better minds at the top of the company making decisions.
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