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  1. KJ78's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by sake View Post
    and contracts should be a thing of the past....
    The administration certainly has been acting this way.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I must say, this is one of the most disturbing threads I've read, in any tech forum. I'm absolutely appalled that anyone could be so comfortable with--no, so anxious for--government to violate our individual rights by destroying our ability to enter into contracts. Just in case anyone's wondering, that's one of the underpinnings of a free society--the ability to enter into voluntary agreements with others and have those agreements protected by law.

    And some folks are willing to toss that away so that they can get a smartphone without a contract--all the while being so incredibly short-sighted as to think that anyone would make the sorts of investments necessary to create those smartphones in the first place when their right to achieve a return can so easily be legislated away. Unbelievable.

    People who think this way are going to be mighty surprised with the results. You want a government that protects you from making your own decisions? You're pretty damn close to getting just that.

    Required agreements that are slanted OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of the business over the consumer should be looked at IMO. US cell carriers get away with far too much. Consumers are getting raped by cable companies too and they should look at that also IMO.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. jewel's Avatar
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    #23  
    Yeah right. Social Security is bankrupt. Medicare and Medicaid are buried in trillions of unpaid dues. Housing is down. GM and Chrysler in shambles. What do they have in common? They are all covered with the government's fingerprints. Now let them handle the telecom industry too.

    By the way Mr. O is in a rush to handle your healthcare. So be happy.
  4. jewel's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Required agreements that are slanted OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of the business over the consumer should be looked at IMO. US cell carriers get away with far too much. Consumers are getting raped by cable companies too and they should look at that also IMO.
    And the only solution is for the benevolent government to handle it, right?
  5. #25  
    for those that argue that if you want to avoid a contract just pay full price -

    that isn't the same as having no contracts and forcing the companies to compete on service alone. If you "have" to have a Pre or iPhone or even Storm you where tied to one carrier.

    I would be nice to buy any phone I want and choice any carrier I want. Sure initial purchase price will be higher but I believe over all expenses will come down and the companies won't have truly horrible CS and be able to stay in business.
  6. #26  
    I don't see how it's wrong that the carrier makes you sign a contract in return for a subsidized phone and cell service. The only time contracts should not be mandatory is if a)you bring your own equipment and just need cell service or b)you are willing to purchase a phone at full retail.

    And furthermore, cell phone carriers are not the only companies to require you to sign a contract. Certain cable/landline phone companies require you to sign a contract especially when they make offers such as discounted/free service for x amount of months.
  7. #27  
    Wow, I'm surprised so many people are so willing to want/let the government just step in. Be careful what you ask for.
  8. #28  
    It's not about letting a tyrannous government regulate what we do, it's about promoting fair and open competition in the marketplace to benefit the consumer.

    In Europe you can buy an unlocked IPhone. When the Pre goes on sale in Europe, there will be unlocked Pre's available, so the consumer has the freedom to select their carrier.

    Can you buy an unlocked Pre and take it to any CDMA carrier in the US? No, you are locked into Sprint.

    There are actually CDMA phones outside the US that have a Sims type card, so a consumer can easily change carriers. In the US the carrier wants you to only buy their locked CDMA phone to lock you in.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrion88 View Post
    The key word in one of the citations you link to is "monopoly." Sprint customers have lots of choices. Other phones on Sprint, and other carriers. I think this would be a tough case to win, even if someone is willing to foot the bill to try it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    I must say, this is one of the most disturbing threads I've read, in any tech forum. I'm absolutely appalled that anyone could be so comfortable with--no, so anxious for--government to violate our individual rights by destroying our ability to enter into contracts. Just in case anyone's wondering, that's one of the underpinnings of a free society--the ability to enter into voluntary agreements with others and have those agreements protected by law.
    OTOH, and in disagreement with the post above, these aren't exactly contracts negotiated between two free parties. They're very one sided, written by the carriers for the benefit of the carriers. Not quite the same thing as negotiating the price of a new addition with a building contractor, or entering into an agreement with the neighbor's kid to mow your lawn.

    Would you feel the same if the ONLY way to buy a new cell phone was to enter into a 2 year contract? Or if the only way to buy a new car was to also pay for an extended warranty, paint sealant and pinstripes?
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    It's not about letting a tyrannous government regulate what we do, it's about promoting fair and open competition in the marketplace to benefit the consumer.

    In Europe you can buy an unlocked IPhone. When the Pre goes on sale in Europe, there will be unlocked Pre's available, so the consumer has the freedom to select their carrier.
    Yes but they are also provided at a higher price (I think retail).

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Can you buy an unlocked Pre and take it to any CDMA carrier in the US? No, you are locked into Sprint.
    That's because CDMA phones are often hardwired to a specific carrier and require "reprogramming". It's usually harder to unlock a CDMA phone vs a GSM phone. Even then, most times, a CDMA carrier will not activate a phone not on their list as each provider has a list of ESNs/MEIDs to be used on their network.

    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    There are actually CDMA phones outside the US that have a Sims type card, so a consumer can easily change carriers. In the US the carrier wants you to only buy their locked CDMA phone to lock you in.
    That's a different CDMA standard. I'm not sure, but I think it would require Sprint/Verizon to have to convert their network.


    Also, Canada has similar requirements as the US, yet they have it worse off then we do. Often times, to get the same/similar pricing on a phone, they have to sign a 3 year contract and their choice of data plans come with caps.
  11. #31  
    The issue isn't the contract, it's the locked hardware. It's fine that they lock us into a two year deal, but after the two years we should be able to use it with any company instead of it becoming a brick unless we sale it to someone else. It's not as if they give us the phones for free. We still buy them and sign a two year contract.

    As far a exclusive deals, I think they're a great idea. Consumers have a choice of buying the product or not buying the product.

    Mercedez doesn't sale and market their new cars out of a Porsche lot and no one says that they should. Palm and Sprint have a trusting relationship where Sprint has taken chances on Palm that none of the other carriers were willing to take. To reward that relationship Palm went with Sprint first and let us know that the exclusivity would not be permanent.

    When no-one else wanted the Centro, Sprint was the only carrier that had it. Now that it's a product the many customers want, people don't want to have to make the same decision that millions made when they switched to AT&T.

    Wait your turn or quit whining. The iPhone has been with AT & T for three years and Congress never made a big deal out of it.

    In addition, the Pre was available a Radio shack, Best Buy, and other places. I don't recall the initial release of the iPhone being available anywhere except Apple and AT &T. I've always been with Verizon until now. Sprint is cheaper and I can now get calls when I'm at my desk work. To be honest, I believe was the phone and not the carrier. My daughter's Centro worked fine.

    My point is, to get the product I wanted, I severed an over 15 year relationship with Verizon. I could have waited, but it's not as if Verizon gives long term customers a discount and although they have a great network and wonderful customer service 90- 98% of the time any of the carriers would give us good phone reception.

    It's why I carpool to work. 98% of the time, only one seat in my car was being used. I only have one carpool buddy, but it's still one less car on the road and I save money. Now I can say the same thing about moving to Sprint. I get the phone I want and I save money.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by jewel View Post
    And the only solution is for the benevolent government to handle it, right?
    When it comes to cable, in areas where monopolies are raping customers with "pay more for less" every year it seems, something needs to be done. Many people are stuck with ONE operator for an entire area. I don't know if government is the solution though, but something needs to be done. When the local government in one community tried to counter the monopoly big company by laying it's own fiber lines because the locals were sick of slow speeds at high prices, they got sued by the big company for "unfair" competition. The companies have too much control and power over consumers.

    As for cell, I'd like to see these little prepaid companies put a big dent in the big companies' profits by offering better service. As of now in the US, prepaid often means crap phones at stupid prices. Prepaid overseas is so much better. Cricket and MetroPCS seem to be getting it right though. Virgin Mobile US and Boost Mobile seriously need better phones, but they have some decent plans. More competition is what the big carriers need more than anything, they're too full of themselves.

    Also I'd like to see the days again when you could actually keep the phone you bought and move to another carrier hassle free. This is one reason why I usually stick with unlocked GSM, the phone is really MINE, not the carrier's. You paid for a contract for 2 years and the phone still isn't truly yours if the phone is locked down to the carrier and you want to move. Even if you stay, the firmware is often butchered so you can't do what the factory model does. So you actually just rented a phone for 2 years. No thanks, for the most part. AT&T and their recent dumb is making me want to go completely back to fully unlocked phones.

    P.S. Don't even get me started on how the required more expensive plans(at least on AT&T) often offer no better service than cheaper plans that do the same thing. This post will be even longer, LOL! Off the soapbox now.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 06/16/2009 at 07:44 AM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by BlaqkAudio View Post
    Also, Canada has similar requirements as the US, yet they have it worse off then we do. Often times, to get the same/similar pricing on a phone, they have to sign a 3 year contract and their choice of data plans come with caps.
    The strange thing about Canada is they often get the better phones way faster than the US. Sometimes they even get phones that US carriers want to butcher too much and/or refuse to carry because they want to restrict choice of features. So they have HORRIBLE contracts, but excellent phone choice. Weird balance.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #34  
    Well, not today or tomorrow, but a groups of U.S. Senators is asking the FCC to investigate the deals as anti-competitive. There's a Reuters story on this, and I'd love to post the link, but since I have less than 10 posts, I'm not worthy...

    I think this has to happen; as our "phones" morph into our entire digital lives (including utterly replacing our laptops), I sure don't want access to my life to be in the hands of ANY cellular provider!!
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by BlaqkAudio View Post
    Yes but they are also provided at a higher price (I think retail).
    It's not about pricing, it's about preventing the monopolization of a product. Which is allowed in the US, but not allowed in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by BlaqkAudio View Post
    That's because CDMA phones are often hardwired to a specific carrier and require "reprogramming". It's usually harder to unlock a CDMA phone vs a GSM phone. Even then, most times, a CDMA carrier will not activate a phone not on their list as each provider has a list of ESNs/MEIDs to be used on their network.
    All you have to do is flash the ROM, about 5 minutes of work. CDMA carriers could be just like GSM carriers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlaqkAudio View Post
    That's a different CDMA standard. I'm not sure, but I think it would require Sprint/Verizon to have to convert their network.
    It doesn't look like it to me. They have the same frequencies as other CDMA phones.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlaqkAudio View Post
    Also, Canada has similar requirements as the US, yet they have it worse off then we do. Often times, to get the same/similar pricing on a phone, they have to sign a 3 year contract and their choice of data plans come with caps.
    Another reason why I'll stick with unlocked GSM phones and go month to month.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #36  
    I think Big Bro should keep it's big fat ugly nose out of business contracts and agreements.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #37  
    You know what bothers me more? Not exactly that carriers are getting exclusive phones, but the fact that they force you onto a higher plan for these hot new phones, then when you try to use the higher plans to the limit, they say you can't. So what are you really paying extra for?

    AT&T US and T-Mobile overseas are examples of this.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    You know what bothers me more? Not exactly that carriers are getting exclusive phones, but the fact that they force you onto a higher plan for these hot new phones, then when you try to use the higher plans to the limit, they say you can't. So what are you really paying extra for?

    AT&T US and T-Mobile overseas are examples of this.
    We use the word "force" for the wrong things, to our peril. Sprint doesn't force you to do anything, as in, put a gun to your head. They also don't commit fraud--they're perfectly up-front about their requirements.

    No, they simply offer you a deal and you can either take it or not. You may not be happy about the deal they offer, but hey, that's what it means to live in a free society. If government forces Sprint (as in, puts a gun to their heads, because that's what government does, by definition) to change their terms, then this strips Sprint of their individual rights and you of yours.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I think Big Bro should keep it's big fat ugly nose out of business contracts and agreements.
    Then who will protect the consumer?
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  20. Micael's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Then who will protect the consumer?
    The consumer goes somewhere else. Example: GM and Chrysler
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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