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  1.    #1  
    Before you start calling for my lynching etc. Listen to this:
    I realize that Muslim terrorists/Islamist Fundamentalism represents the Islamic people as much as David Koresh's Waco Whackos represented Christian people but...

    As you know it is absolutely impossible to screen the Arabic speaking people into the Islamist supporters (overtly or otherwise) of the so-called "terrorists" and the Islamic moderates and pro-Westernites.

    The idea of "bombing" the terrorists is absurd. Terrorists are all over Eurasia, in Desmoine Iowa, all over NYC, all over Florida, beside me, next to you. We've all had good buddies who were Islamic. There is no frickin way our government even using the Delta Force could storm Afghanistan or Egypt or wherever and be able to gun down all "terrorists." There's no frickin way we're going to bomb a bunch of desolate boulders on a mountainside in Afghanistan.

    What can we do then!!?

    If you want to stop ISLAMIST TERRORISM, you have to do two big-time unpolitically correct things: 1.arrest and place ALL people of the Islamic faith and of Arabic/Muslim background into internment camps just as the US did with the Japanese after Pearl Harbor. 2.Drop chemical/biologic/nuclear agents onto the entire Islamic world from Indonesia, Pakistan, up North to the Islamic regions of the former USSR, down to SriLanka, westward into Afghanistan, Iran/Iran, all Arab nations including the Israelis, all of Islamic Africa, Turkey, etc. all of them. You would have to accept killing off many non-Muslim people too of course including many Europeans, Jews, Mediterraneans, Russian, Chinese, Hindus, etc. In effect what Hitler was trying to do against the Jews but do it SUCCESSFULLY against Muslims.

    Otherwise here's the realistic fact: you can't stop Islamist terrorism; just face it, take it, live with it. Just as you can't stop crime, take it, live with it. THIS IS THE NATURE OF OUR WORLD.

    unless you guys are all interested in choosing my Muslim holocaust option? Just checking.
  2. #2  
    We must be very careful that we not become mirror images of the type of people we seek to vilify. We must remember the old proverb: "Act in haste; repent at leisure."
    When I get a little money I buy books; if any is left, I buy food and clothes.
  3. #3  
    Sure, we can run the whole gamut! Next we could do the Italians (since no one really knows who's in the Mafia and who isn't), then the Irish (since you never know who could be making bombs for the IRA or giving them money), and then every teen with an attitude (hell, any one of them could start blowing people away at school)...

    nernst is right in that giving in to our fears and "rustling up them thar Middle Easterners" is the most irrational, and in my opinion, most anti-American thing we could do. However, I'd like to add that we need to look beyond the color of our attacker's skin and the religion that they vindicate themselves with and instead see man full of hate and evil that lies beneath. They weren't born to hate us, it was taught to them. Their religion didn't tell them to kill, they and other men use religion to justify their violence. This isn't the peace-love-and-happiness rhetoric some would think - the fact is that knowing who is truly our enemy is the key to destroying him.

    For anyone who thinks there weren't any Middle Eastern-Americans or Muslim Americans who had family and friends hurt or killed during the attacks, your view of our nation is narrow at best. Those people who believe that by putting away Middle Eatern-Americans we can protect our people are forgetting that many of them are "our people." To forget this is to have no concept of what America is made of, in both citizenry and character. The greatest strength we have is that we are a nation of one, yet also a nation of none. I'd like to think that we don't define ourselves with labels, where people are neat equations we can categorize (i.e., Middle Easterner = terrorist, Southerner = bigot, etc.).

    No, I don't have granola coming out of my ****. I am not sympathizing in any way with our enemy. I will defend the people and ideas I hold dear, and I will fight for the right of my countrymen to defend that which they treasure as well. However, when they are threatened or attacked, I will certainly destroy my enemy's body or his will, whichever comes first. What gives me strength? What helps me sleep at night? The fact that I have enough faith in myself and my fellow Americans to know that justice, not vengeance, will be had.
    Last edited by badmojo97; 09/15/2001 at 06:37 AM.
    "A Noble Spirit Embiggens the Smallest Man."
    —Jeremiah Springfield's Epitaph
    on The Simpsons
  4. #4  
    I am sure that they are alot of people that feel the same way as Nernst..which is very unfortunate. The world WOULD NOT stand behind the U.S if they created internment camps and try to target Musilms within its borders....some or whom by the way are Black! Furthermore, The U.S would lack credibility and lose all respect from the world community. Internment camps (which was also use IN canada against the Jaoanese) is no longer acceptable today just like how segregation is not acceptable today.
  5. #5  
    Originally posted by yardie
    try to target Musilms
    We don't want to target Muslims or Islamics... it's the terrorist's (of any background) that we want. This situation is in many ways similar to any other racial or ethnic conflict... it's a very small percentage of bad apples that spoil the whole bunch. There have been numerous Muslims and Islamics (among others) interviewed during the past few days that are just as outraged as we Americans are.

    Unfortunately, I think the bottom line is that terrorism will never be eradicated (as long as there are 2 people on this great earth of ours, there will be disagreements). But I hope it can be controlled and held in check. It's also important to remember that terrorism is not unique to the United States. It can strike anywhere at anytime...
    .
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    MarkEagle
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  6. #6  
    There is a Muslim temple in my residental neighborhood, not 2 blocks away. It saddens me that they fear coming to worship due to the hatred and threats that abound. They are peaceful people and enhance our neighborhood by their presence. To assure all who drive by that they are in support of our (their) country they now display in their windows American flags. Yet they still require police protection each time they have a service. This is a small temple and there were 3 police cars to assure that they were able to get on with their religious service that is protected by our (their) constitutional rights.

    Where do our fellow Americans get off targeting these peaceful people with their hatred? How can they judge the whole by the actions of a few? Why can't people separate the Muslims (or any middle easterner for that matter) from the terrorists?

    These are questions to which I know the answer is "ignorance".

    Teri
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by yardie
    I am sure that they are alot of people that feel the same way as Nernst..which is very unfortunate. The world WOULD NOT stand behind the U.S if they created internment camps and try to target Musilms within its borders....some or whom by the way are Black! Furthermore, The U.S would lack credibility and lose all respect from the world community. Internment camps (which was also use IN canada against the Jaoanese) is no longer acceptable today just like how segregation is not acceptable today.
    In defense of nernst, I think his point in the first opening lines was to present the argument of the people you are speaking about in order to emphasize his point of how irrational such actions would be. At least, that's how I interpreted it. If I felt he actually believed that, my response probably would have been a bit more incensed. I kind of did the same in my previous message, except I tend to use more sarcasm . However, you're right in that I'm sure a lot of people do feel that way. While such beliefs anger me almost as much as the actions of our attackers, I can't completely condemn them, since such beliefs are a result of the fear and uncertainty we all feel. I just pray that we as a people have enough sense and wisdom gained from mistakes made in the past to not see this as a issue of race or religion. Like others have already said, terrorism can be immaterial of where you're from or what religion you follow.
    "A Noble Spirit Embiggens the Smallest Man."
    —Jeremiah Springfield's Epitaph
    on The Simpsons
  8. #8  
    I think it's important to point out that the terms "Arab" and "Muslim" are NOT interchangeable. Regardless of your feelings with respect to a particular group, the least you can do is identify them properly.

    "Arab" is a term used to describe people who trace their lineage back to a Semitic people who settled primarily in the Middle East and North Africa. The term does not imply any religious affiliation. "Muslim" describes those who adhere to the Islamic faith, regardless of their country of residence or lineage. While many Arabs are Muslim, not all Arabs are Muslims, nor are all Muslims Arabs. To the best of my knowledge, Indonesia is the country with the largest population of Muslims, the vast majority of whom are not Arabs.

    It's bad enough that so many in this country (and likely elsewhere) have decided to associate an entire religion with the primary suspects in this tragedy, but it only complicates matters when people can't even properly identify the group to which they're referring.
  9.    #9  
    My Arab/Muslim/Islamic/Islamist internment camp & extermination plan should have been posted with a tongue-in-cheek emoticon.
  10. #10  
    I understood your post just fine. I know you weren't suggesting we do that very thing!

    Unfortunately, the ignorant people I posted about would be perfectly happy with that solution....

    Teri
  11. #11  
    Nernst:

    Well put. It's a POV that is completely missing from this entire event (at least from within the media).

    The stories that are cropping up of American's vandalizing and taunting American-arabic businesses and people in this country is simply disgusting. And any thoughts of going to war seem completely premature at this time until we know the specifics of who to go after...as opposed to going after entire ethnic groups.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  12. #12  
    this reminds me of the movie 'the siege'....

    If you have seen that movie you'll know that camps are probably not the answer....
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  13. #13  
    I too am very saddened by the reactions of most Americans. Those same people would probably be happy with nuking the entire Middle East. I wish people could see past their anger. If we retaliate like that we would be no better than the terrorists and more than likely whoever is behind this has already fled to some other nation. More innocent lives will be lost, both here and in the Middle East if we don't find a way to make peace. I am not suggesting we ignore what happened, but people seem to forget that war isn't the only answer. I saw a statesman of one form or another on CNN say how we couldn't possible bring Democracy to these nations. "It wouldn't be right" he said. Is it right to simply go to war with them instead and kill more people? I fail to see the logic there.

    "Give Peace a Chance"
    -John Lennon

    (sorry if a bit off topic, but it all seems to go together)
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  14. #14  
    Lennon:

    I'm afraid war (or something close to it) is the only answer to this incident. Any other conclusion is fuzzy-headed nonsense.

    We aren't going to be able to negotiate with bin Laden or his supporters (which, to get on topic, is obviously not every moslem or every person of middle eastern extraction). They believe they are on a mission from God, and compromise with us is unthinkable. They will keep striking at us as opportunities permit until we eliminate them as a threat.

    The old cliche about violence never solving anything is incorrect. It's not always the answer. It's not even usually the answer. But sometimes it is the only practical answer. Regrettably, this is one of those times.
  15. #15  
    The old cliche about violence never solving anything is incorrect.
    Well, I guess it depends on how you define 'solved'. I think violence can often stop certain things, but not necessairly solve the issues surrounding them.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  16. #16  
    The terrorists are true 'Muslims' in the same sense that Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell and the people who bomb family planning clinics and kill doctors are true 'Christians'. It makes me sick that people in this country can lump ethnic and religious groups together with the tiny factions that are downright dangerous individuals.

    <OPINION>A major problem with this country are the millions of uneducated (generally white) separatists (hillbillies and rednecks) that are taught to hate anything that doesn't resemble their pathetic lifestyles. </OPINION>

    Sorry, but I wanted to finally blow off some steam, but people like the ones who are harassing and murdering anyone of middle eastern descent (or even looks like it) make me absolutely sick to be an American.

    Yeah, Pat Robertson has a first amendment right (I guess) to say what he thinks, but it still revolts me. Those who support him should be ashamed of themselves, and maybe their withdrawal of funds from his coffers can remove him from television altogether.
  17. #17  
    Originally posted by homer


    Well, I guess it depends on how you define 'solved'. I think violence can often stop certain things, but not necessairly solve the issues surrounding them.
    Now there is an intelligent man! I fear though it will be quite an "uphill battle" to solve the problems. I'm in, just wish people were more open.
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