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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    I've been called a Socialist numerous times for simply being a blue collar, working class, Union member.
    Understandably. They are correct. Unions are socialist organizations. Trade Unions are in direct conflict with Capitalists. I personally believe that the usefullness of trade and labor unions is long passed.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Understandably. They are correct. Unions are socialist organizations. Trade Unions are in direct conflict with Capitalists. I personally believe that the usefullness of trade and labor unions is long passed.
    Are you serious? or just trying to debate?
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  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    Any free country really...

    Either this statement isnt true for the US or it is true for a whole lot of western (and probably other) countries..
    It's true that it is his belief, based on his experience. You're taking issue with the patriotic tone, or just that it's not "logical"?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Are you serious? or just trying to debate?
    Dead serious. Read the link.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. jewel's Avatar
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    #25  
    Merriam-Webster

    Pronunciation:
    \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
    Function:
    noun
    Date:
    1837

    1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
    2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
    3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Dead serious. Read the link.
    Do you think I should change my username to, "TheRedMenace"
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  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #27  
    Clarification. I'm not saying that Trade Unions equals Socialism.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by palandri View Post
    Do you think I should change my username to, "TheRedMenace"
    Depends on what you're wearing and who you're menacing! Did I say socialism was wrong and menacing?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by kilofoxtrot View Post
    I have often thought that use of the term "American" is miss-used, or at least the connotation is misleading.

    Are not people from Canada "Americans"? Mexico?, Brazil? ... and gulp... Cuba? We are all peoples that inhabit North or South American, so doesn't that make all of us "Americans"?
    This is true, everyone in the American continent is an American. Other countries refer to the USA as The United States, to avoid some confusion and separate the US Americans from Continental Americans.
    I'm not trying to annoy anyone... I'm just sayin' ...


    I am an American by Naturalization, one day I wasn't an American and the next day I was, yet I'm still the same exact person. I swore to be loyal to this country, yet I have been loyal to this land for many years before I received my citicenship.

    So what exactly is being an American? it's living, studying, working, paying taxes, and loving this Country, it also means being born in the USA.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It's true that it is his belief, based on his experience. You're taking issue with the patriotic tone, or just that it's not "logical"?
    to be honest the combination of both... patriotism isnt a bad thing, but if it blurs your logic it becomes very dagerous (I'm in danger in making this into a Godwin's law post ).

    But his logic is flawed and the most likely cause is an overdose of patriotism.

    Don't get me wrong, I have been to the US a lot of times and have many friends who live their and I see a lot of positive things there, but it isnt all good. Like any countries it has its disadvantages as wel as great things..

    So when some body makes a blanked statement like the US is the greatest country in the world it is the best country and everybody wants to live here, I'm not sure if I should get angry, feel afraid or feel sorry for that person...
    It simply is not a balanced view of the world and it worries me...
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  11. Micael's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    to be honest the combination of both... patriotism isnt a bad thing, but if it blurs your logic it becomes very dagerous (I'm in danger in making this into a Godwin's law post ).

    But his logic is flawed and the most likely cause is an overdose of patriotism.

    Don't get me wrong, I have been to the US a lot of times and have many friends who live their and I see a lot of positive things there, but it isnt all good. Like any countries it has its disadvantages as wel as great things..

    So when some body makes a blanked statement like the US is the greatest country in the world it is the best country and everybody wants to live here, I'm not sure if I should get angry, feel afraid or feel sorry for that person...
    It simply is not a balanced view of the world and it worries me...
    well I don't know about the last point, that everyone wants to live here. But the US being the greatest country in the world *is* arguable. And I, for one, have spent decades outside of the US. At some point you have to defer to individual preference, but thats after narrowing the list of optional countries down to a handful of countries, all of which are based on democratic principles. Or are you keeping your option to moving to North Korea soon open?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    well I don't know about the last point, that everyone wants to live here. But the US being the greatest country in the world *is* arguable. And I, for one, have spent decades outside of the US. At some point you have to defer to individual preference, but thats after narrowing the list of optional countries down to a handful of countries, all of which are based on democratic principles.
    Fair point, and I would agree it is a personal preference and for you as an indifidual it may be the best country, but stating that any question is THE best country period (and implying it has no faults etc) is not something I am not comfortable with..
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 06/04/2009 at 11:26 AM.
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  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #33  
    <discussed with Micael offline, subdiscussion seems to be based on mutual misunderstanding >
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 06/04/2009 at 11:27 AM.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #34  
    This seems very interesting these notable concrens. It seems towards angry that what you are doing & have to do is what appears upsetting to each individual that writes their the observances. These are 'worries', it appears you see the USA getting ready to fall, if this is not true than as Americans you have the choice to do what you want. So if these items are worrying you than correct by going to that place that suits you're wants & needs. If this is not possible (which I don't understand) Deal with it & recognize you are an American who can contribute, help or even improve these concerns. If you see the fall about & or about to happen than as an American stop it since as Americans you/we will not let that happen because you/we love our country & being Americans.
    You've stated you're likes & worries so respond & prevent the evil from taking over.
    Don't 'cry' - Act.
    You are an American.
  15. #35  
    <discussed with Micael offline>
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 06/04/2009 at 11:25 AM.
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  16. #36  
    Unions have nothing to do with socialism. In fact in in extreme socialist states they have often been illegal.

    The right and legit engages in socialist policy as well. Our own founders advocated and implemented several socialist policies
  17. #37  
    No to the nut of "who is an American."

    An American if one means it in the generally used sense, is a person who is a US citizen. The idea that someone being born here makes them more American is silly, since in some senses their "Americanism" is abjectly passive, they made no choices. Immigrants are arguably more American.
  18.    #38  
    I'm not understanding the word no to an American. I am born,bred, fought, live own & have a confirmed place the Army has ready for me. I have started these posts that had gotten out of control with the disageements, that had started to get out of control between a small selected which was & is against the purpose of the togetherness these posts are meant to bring between Americans who live here & for those who wish to be part as well.
    Passive? well I know aggresive, been there done that. My eyes are open I see & hear what turmoils our country is in & going through. What is needed is not the outlook of communism but of the patriotism which our country was formed & still revolves around. That is what I am hoping this post will show & is greatfully appreciated.
    Why is this so hard to do?
    I am no Hippie yet I have to ask why does someone have to want to put me down when all I look for are my fellow Americans who are proud & happy to be Americans that would want to praise our country.
    I am not young. I am a grown man who loves & is thankfull to his country. We have a freedom & rights that many before myself have provided for, even for those who wish to gripe & not do anything to right those regrets these individals may have.
    True I am watching my words since I do not want what happenned in the first post to happen again. If this does happen again than I speak for those Americans who do not wish to speak positively for our country, that those who complain & destroy the goodness searched for & is, you who destroy, with these constant ramblings, are not needed & to the point if you are American with these negativities either do something positive for your country or stop this useless bantering & grow up...
    This is our Country love it or leave it.
  19.    #39  
    I am trusting this Post will grow with positivity & goodness because I will not start a 3rd post & my time left is growing short & I hope there is another who will carry on for me to keep this constant long after I am gone.
  20. Micael's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Unions have nothing to do with socialism. In fact in in extreme socialist states they have often been illegal.

    The right and legit engages in socialist policy as well. Our own founders advocated and implemented several socialist policies
    I'm curious, which extreme socialist states?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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