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  1. #41  
    They may not be talking about letting on to our streets, however, if found not guilty and no place to go, where do they go? Where do we deport someone who is refused sanctuary? None of us want that type of person as a next door neighbor, guilty or not.

    It is like saying this increase here will not affect this product here. It does.

    As for the No Child Left Behind - programs like this on that level are doomed - everyone wants and no one gives.

    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Bush never adequately funded no child left behind... it was another Epic Disaster...

    Most teachers (or those in education) I know say it was a good idea, but executed wrongly (or wording similar).



    No one is talking of letting a terrorist out on the streets of America... that would be stupid... plus, they would only be deported.

    The issues at gitmo are still not worked out... we still have people there who never had fair legal representation....

    As I've stated before, let someone in your family get locked up "forever"... only being labeled guilty and the key down the drain.

    Understand, I'm an old military guy... you have to keep these guys off the street, but I don't think gitmo was the right answer... well, not the long term answer. I drew the line at the guys being sent home after two and three years with nothing more than "we made a mistake."

    The flip side is was it worth it to keep the couple of innocent people there if it saved an American life... someone in my family? That is a hard question....

    Nothing is ever perfect...



    Where it makes sense...
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    They may not be talking about letting on to our streets, however, if found not guilty and no place to go, where do they go? Where do we deport someone who is refused sanctuary? None of us want that type of person as a next door neighbor, guilty or not.
    Again, who said they would be living next door to you?

    Sad part is I'm guessing that you are getting stories like this: Court Orders Release of 17 Innocent Guantanamo Detainees into U.S. After Nearly 7 Years in Prison (CCR press release)-FIDH > Human Rights for All / Les Droits de l'Homme pour Tous

    confused with reality....

    I guess we can all agree that the Bush White House has made this into a mess. We can also agree that Bush and his team did not have a plan to fix gitmo, but left this mess to Obama to fix. Just another example of Bush being an Epic Disaster.

    I honestly wonder how many of us would flip off the handle if our mom, dad, sister, brother, son or daughter was kept in a jail for 7 years without a trial and then found to have done nothing wrong?

    I find it insane and hard to fathom that Americans find what Bush did as okay. Some will be innocent (the type of war we are fighting, this is bound to happen), but keeping them for 7 years?

    As for the No Child Left Behind - programs like this on that level are doomed - everyone wants and no one gives.
    Programs like this can work... if implemented and managed correctly... unfortunately, it is a Bush program we are talking about. I doubt if he can even say "implemented" and "managed" in the same sentence without providing you a slight smirk.
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by jewel View Post
    My message to my American friends: Get back to your roots. Get back to what made you great that is the Declaration of Independence and your Constitution.

    In my short stay here in the U.S. I have noticed that it is the left that bashes and hates this country, and it is the conservatives who are proud of and genuinely love this country.

    I come from a country that has suffered 20 plus years of tyranny. And all that is left of it now is more poverty and government corruption. And with what I am observing with this president right now is that he is going to that path of tyranny. More government control and more national debt (10 thousand billions!), the weakening of the military, the palling around with murderous regimes, the lies and more lies. This is his current accomplishments. If I were you I would be out in the street by now.

    I beg you my American friends. Please wake up and do something about it. Before it's too late.
    It sounds that you have been listening to the very purposeful marketing strategy, in which anyone who disagrees with a policy is instantly labeled as an un-American who hates their country. I would wager that the majority of the country who believe that our President is doing a good job don't hate America - they simply feel that our values are better represented by our current practices.

    I think that was the entire point of the original posting - that this "us vs. them" strategy leads to the very knee-jerk response that you posted....folks just jump to a partisan position without thinking of the implications. A recent study indicated that, if people are surveyed about their positions on actual issues, without being told which party takes which stance, as many as 25% of Americans would actually vote for the opposite party as the one they are affiliated with.
    Last edited by Bujin; 04/25/2009 at 02:00 PM.
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  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    They may not be talking about letting on to our streets, however, if found not guilty and no place to go, where do they go?
    Do you realize that, since these detainees were taken from their own country, not from America, they would go back there? Since you refer to them as "illegal aliens", I'm wondering if you are simply confused as to which Republican talking points you were referring to.

    The people we're talking about aren't illegal aliens, but (frequently innocent) citizens of their own country, who were rounded up and sent to prisons.

    Habeus corpus is for the citizens of this country. The citizens of this country are protected under our consitution, not illegal aliens.
    I'm afraid that the Supreme Court disagrees. They ruled that habeus corpus absolutely applies to our military prisons, including Gitmo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boumediene_v._Bush. They also ruled that the protections of the Geneva Convention, including those involving humane treatment, apply to our detainees.
    Last edited by Bujin; 04/25/2009 at 02:19 PM.
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  5. #45  
    I did not refer to them as illegal aliens. I stated they were tried and if found not guilty - how that is called an illegal alien is beyond me. You state frequently innocent? I wonder if there are any studies that show just what per cent were really not involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Do you realize that, since these detainees were taken from their own country, not from America, they would go back there? Since you refer to them as "illegal aliens", I'm wondering if you are simply confused as to which Republican talking points you were referring to.

    The people we're talking about aren't illegal aliens, but (frequently innocent) citizens of their own country, who were rounded up and sent to prisons.



    I'm afraid that the Supreme Court disagrees. They ruled that habeus corpus absolutely applies to our military prisons, including Gitmo: Boumediene v. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. They also ruled that the protections of the Geneva Convention, including those involving humane treatment, apply to our detainees.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I did not refer to them as illegal aliens. I stated they were tried and if found not guilty - how that is called an illegal alien is beyond me.
    If you look at your own post (#31, also quoted 2 posts above), you said: "Habeus corpus is for the citizens of this country. The citizens of this country are protected under our consitution, not illegal aliens." This was in direct reference to the detainees.

    And, whether you refer to them as illegal aliens or not, you seem to dispute the fact that the detainees have habeus corpus rights...and you're simply incorrect.

    You state frequently innocent? I wonder if there are any studies that show just what per cent were really not involved.
    I don't know if there are any studies, but Colin Powell -- who would be a person in the know, certainly -- indicated that 500 of the 700 (over 70%) were eventually released because they had no ties to terrorism. Do you have any data or information to indicate otherwise?
    Last edited by Bujin; 04/26/2009 at 01:36 PM.
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