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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by g.711 View Post
    No man is perfect save for One who died 2009 years ago.

    Maybe that is America’s secrete just look on the back of our currency.
    Oops... wrong answer!!!

    (In my view) America has become the greatest country because of its people and more importantly because of its selfishness (I mean this in the best possible sense). It has managed to attract the best (gifted, genius, etc.) people from every generation from all over the world for several hundred years. This has resulted in an unprecidented creation of wealth for the U.S. The flip side is, the other countries have lost these people.

    The "melting-pot" aspect is crucial to the above, as it has lead an acceptance of multiple points of view (unlike this thread) and multiple possibilities.

    (Also in my view) America sees our collective existence as a race. They want to be the best, the first, the biggest. Contrast that with my country... distill everything and you'll see we aspire for nothing, we just want to get on with life and get over with it. We hate our tomorrows. And I'm not saying one is better than the other. The killer instinct got America where it is.

    And g.711, a few comments about what you said:
    • Every country (or person) donates what is possible. America is the greatest for a lot many reasons, but giving massive amounts of aid is not one of them.
    • The fighting in several parts of the world is precisely because of the US. In many cases well-intentioned intervention have lead to bad outcomes.
    • Regarding your comment on God... almost every country (republic, democracy) does with it does in the name of God and its people, no matter the skewed priorities. It is not a unique feature of the US.


    Quote Originally Posted by g.711 View Post
    Does not India have ongoing issues with “Class” where you cannot marry or even socialize outside of your class?
    >> Maybe, we were better off with our classy social structure. Equality is an alien concept for us. (oh hell!!! that's a can-of-worms). Force it down our throats, and there's chaos.

    Quote Originally Posted by g.711 View Post
    Even you say ". India probably finds it easier to give aid to others than to help it's own" What is your point what do you want from us?
    >> Nothing. We have our destiny and you have yours.

    I'm sticking out my neck more than usual in this thread.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by g.711 View Post
    American Health Care, Education, Infrastructure, Water, Food Output, Conservation compare it all.

    Given the state of our poor, Americas poor generally live much better than 90+ % of the world. You cant even compare.
    Does not India have ongoing issues with “Class” where you cannot marry or even socialize outside of your class? Even you say ". India probably finds it easier to give aid to others than to help it's own" What is your point what do you want from us?
    Does not country after country suffer from internal corruption?
    Does not Russia maintain a reputation for prostitutes throughout Europe.
    Is it not true that the Middle East stone women for being raped. Do they not pour acid over there face for going to school. Africa... well nuff said there.
    And the aphetic EU they can’t get anything done.
    Yes we are in hock to China at the moment. Twenty years ago it was the Japaneses. And before that it was the Dutch. The world invests in America.

    Why? Other counties have similar resources, why is the US special?

    Lastly just consider the accomplishment of America in its short history compared to the rest of the world. No country is perfect, No man is perfect save for One who was killed 2009 years ago.

    Maybe that is America’s secrete just look on the back of our currency.
    This kind of attitude is exactly what can make the US perceived as arogant and ignorant.
    First of all it is full of stereotypes, pick out the worst examples and than says: see we don't do that, how great of us...
    First of all the US is not the only country that doesn't do that.. there are plenty others, if not the majority of them...
    Besides to proof you are great you should look at the good examples.

    The US has many great things:
    -amazing nature
    -free spirit
    -top athletes in many sports
    -lots of top scientist
    -many have a high to very high standard of living
    etc

    Those are things you should be proud of, not the fact you don't kick dogs (for example )
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryHumor View Post
    Love it, or leave it. Let me get the door for you.
    That attitude is the primary problem in the US for quite a while now. We're like some petulant teenager that can't take criticism without either lashing out in anger, or "well, what about you?!?!" This is even present in most of our internecine conflicts. It's ridiculous.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #24  
    One of the supposed strengths of this country is the ability for people to speak freely. Voltaire said "I may not agree with a word you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it".

    Unfortunately, it seems that this essential American value isn't honored in this thread (or increasingly in our society in general), if someone dares to insinuate something that "dogs America". It's really sad. Our country is great, but not perfect: questioning whether our practice lives up to our values is essential, and the lack of willingness to do this is exactly why our standing in the world is at an all-time low.

    Love it, or leave it. Let me get the door for you.
    So, for example:
    • If a person criticizes our current President for "killing black teenagers on the open seas" in order to rescue an American from Somalian pirates, should that person leave the country for not sufficiently loving our country? If that same person openly states that he wants our duly elected president to fail, doesn't that qualify as not "loving their country"? If so, then someone should help Rush pack his bags.
    • If people openly make comments about secession while in an anti-government protest, should they leave? If so, someone should help Texas governor Rick Perry leave the country.
    • If people create anti-government protests, which include racially charged signs pertaining to our fairly elected president, should they leave the country? If so, those folks who took part in the tea party protests should leave the country.

    Let me be very clear: I of course believe that the people in the examples above have every right to take part in the foolishness cited. However, people can't have it both ways. If we have to have a "love it or leave it" philosophy, then it should pertain to both sides of the debate. The problem is that some folks, even if they are in the minority of opinion, believe that their view of America is the only one that is accurate, and will only tolerate dissent from their side.
    Last edited by Bujin; 04/17/2009 at 08:55 AM.
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  5. #25  
    Toolkit, where do you get of fstating our health care system is bad? Look at the health care system in your country and throughout Europe a bit closer. Do Americans wait in line? Are Americans refused service at a hospital? Do we allow the government to say NO? Really now. As for the homeless, there is a big push on that and always has been. I live in Hawaii and the homeless situation here is very visible and in the news all the time. The state and city address it continuously and at tax payer expense. There are shelters that are not filled - why? There are those who do not want to live in them or abide by the rules. Look closer at your system - there are still homeless there. Little social network? Really? I will be damned on that. Yep. Not to be rude, but you are very wrong in that area. Very wrong.

    If you do not think the charity this country provides is not doing enough? Look at what this country has spent in Africa on AIDES. No other country touches it. Look at what we give in emergency relief. No other country TOUCHES it. None. Look at what we gave in the past to free many countries - NONE come close to it.

    As for the man and the toilet, at least he was not arrested, thrown in jail and executed or sent to Siberia.

    The money thing - Europe is frankly not in any better shape. Loosing our glamor - yeah, especially when the president of the country goes around blaming his own country for everything it has done wrong. Especially with a press that leans so far to the left that it looses sight of what is right or wrong. Especially with a press that has an agenda. Oh, I forget that the BBC has no agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    would you like an outsiders view on this?

    First of all let me state that I like america, I have visited it many times and have many american friends.

    But having said that it is far from the promised land many people make it out to be. And for sure it is NOT the ambition of al non americans to become american...

    "For all the faults we have as a country and people, one that we do not have is a lack of giving and caring for others. "
    mmm judging the apathy for your poor and homeless people, little social network, poor healthcare system, one could argue the opposite.
    And as for selfishly helping other countries, I'm afraid that doesnt seem true, america looks after its own interest (rightly so!) so if they interfere other countries it is to cover their own interests. Which is not a bad thing, but it is if you do it under false pretenses.
    And yes the US does give a lot to charity too, but it is not unique in that, and if you look at the amount of charity it gives per person it isnt even doing that great from what I recall (I'll see if I can find some data to back that up)

    Another problem that some people have is the (percieved) arrogance by america. America is a great country but not the only great one and to be honest the US has lost a bit of its power and glamour...
    Many of the US companies are now in the hands of foreign countries, if China put in a consolidated effort they could bankrupt the US in no time through all the companies they own..
    Another example of this was the story of the guy that was refused access to the toilet during 'god bless america' in a stadium that is forced patriotism.. not a good thing...

    This post was not meant to slam america (though I'm sure some will see it like that) but just to show you the other side of the story..

    Bottom line is US is a great country and I like it, but I like it like a brother, one that can annoy me at times too...
  6. #26  
    Bujin, the "tea parties" were not anti-government protests and you know that. They were protests concerning the extreme, uncontrolled and often illegal growth of the federal government. Look at the Constitution and then look at the power the federal government is wanting - not anti-government. We want smaller government, responsible government.

    Rush wants the policies of the president to fail, not the president himself. Big difference and you know as well as I do that the quote was taken out of context.

    Racially charged signs? Gosh, I wonder what group did that. Those signs do not represent middle America. Those signs represent the far left and the far right and as the tea parties are middle American, there is a good chance those signs were from groups out there to stir up problems - and the far left is great at that.

    Those people participating in the tea parties were doing nothing more than expressing their First Amendment rights. Do you not take those rights as seriously? I hope you do. I sure do. Being labeled as a terrorist or even a possible terrorist for this, for being a disgruntle veteran, well those are actions that are intended to shut up the opposition. Being against abortion does not make me a right wing extremist, does not make me a terrorist, does not make me a possible terrorist. In fact, being against abortion makes me a traditionalist. Being pro abortion though - look at all those DEAD babies (of course not during the meal time).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    One of the supposed strengths of this country is the ability for people to speak freely. Voltaire said "I may not agree with a word you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it".

    Unfortunately, it seems that this essential American value isn't honored in this thread (or increasingly in our society in general), if someone dares to insinuate something that "dogs America". It's really sad. Our country is great, but not perfect: questioning whether our practice lives up to our values is essential, and the lack of willingness to do this is exactly why our standing in the world is at an all-time low.



    So, for example:
    • If a person criticizes our current President for "killing black teenagers on the open seas" in order to rescue an American from Somalian pirates, should that person leave the country for not sufficiently loving our country? If that same person openly states that he wants our duly elected president to fail, doesn't that qualify as not "loving their country"? If so, then someone should help Rush pack his bags.
    • If people openly make comments about secession while in an anti-government protest, should they leave? If so, someone should help Texas governor Rick Perry leave the country.
    • If people create anti-government protests, which include racially charged signs pertaining to our fairly elected president, should they leave the country? If so, those folks who took part in the tea party protests should leave the country.

    Let me be very clear: I of course believe that the people in the examples above have every right to take part in the foolishness cited. However, people can't have it both ways. If we have to have a "love it or leave it" philosophy, then it should pertain to both sides of the debate. The problem is that some folks, even if they are in the minority of opinion, believe that their view of America is the only one that is accurate, and will only tolerate dissent from their side.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Toolkit, where do you get of fstating our health care system is bad? Look at the health care system in your country and throughout Europe a bit closer. Do Americans wait in line? Are Americans refused service at a hospital? Do we allow the government to say NO? Really now.
    As I understandi it,if americans dont have insurance (which is quite a few) yes they are refused service..
    The NHS is far from perfect, but at least everybody has 'free' healtcare.
    And you can add private cover if you want..

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    As for the homeless, there is a big push on that and always has been. I live in Hawaii and the homeless situation here is very visible and in the news all the time. The state and city address it continuously and at tax payer expense. There are shelters that are not filled - why? There are those who do not want to live in them or abide by the rules. Look closer at your system - there are still homeless there. Little social network? Really? I will be damned on that. Yep. Not to be rude, but you are very wrong in that area. Very wrong.
    From my personal experience the number of beggars in the US was lots higher than I have experienced anywhere in europe.
    So what kind of social network do you have? I could be misinformed, so would love to be proven wrong..

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    If you do not think the charity this country provides is not doing enough? Look at what this country has spent in Africa on AIDES. No other country touches it. Look at what we give in emergency relief. No other country TOUCHES it. None. Look at what we gave in the past to free many countries - NONE come close to it.
    I had heard a while ago that per capita or per national product the US charity turned out to be very low, however when I try to find a source of that I cannot find it, so I retract that statement.. could be right could be wrong, but now way I can prove either...

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    As for the man and the toilet, at least he was not arrested, thrown in jail and executed or sent to Siberia.

    I take it you dont have any real answer to that?

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    The money thing - Europe is frankly not in any better shape. Loosing our glamor - yeah, especially when the president of the country goes around blaming his own country for everything it has done wrong. Especially with a press that leans so far to the left that it looses sight of what is right or wrong. Especially with a press that has an agenda. Oh, I forget that the BBC has no agenda.
    LOL are you saying that he US press leans to the left? Have you heard of fox news??
    While BBC has left tendacies, compared to fox they are so much more balanced it is not funny anymore...
    Just look at the hard time they give the Labour goverment unlike the buttkissing fox did to the bush gov...

    And the fact your prez actually takes responsibility and shows humbleness actually brings back some of the glamour.. it takes a big man to admit he is wrong, not a cowboy
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Those people participating in the tea parties were doing nothing more than expressing their First Amendment rights. Do you not take those rights as seriously? I hope you do. I sure do.
    If you read my post, you'd see that I stated that all of the examples I cited were perfectly appropriate expressions of First Amendment rights. (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you simply didn't read all the way to the bottom of my post.)

    I was merely stating that these rights should be granted to everyone, not just folks that agree with a person's opinion - in other words, I don't agree with the "love it or leave it" approach, in which folks are bullied simply for the crime of criticizing any aspect of our country.

    It sounds like you and I agree in principle on this. If you would not simply jump to attack mode, you might have noticed this.

    Being labeled as a terrorist or even a possible terrorist for this, for being a disgruntle veteran, well those are actions that are intended to shut up the opposition.
    Nobody that I know of has stated that all members of the right wing are terrorists or extremists. The report from the Dept of Homeland Security merely stated that the current state of the economy, coupled with other factors such as an African American president, causes stressors that can be recruitment tools for right-wing extremists. In other words, more people pre-disposed to right-wing opinions will take an extremist stance, given the fact they they feel the country is in the wrong direction.

    It wasn't a political statement, simply a statement of fact. I don't think it can be argued, for example, that racially motivated hate groups will recruit more members based on an African American president. Similarly, pro-gun organizations will recruit more members based on the presumption that a Democratic-controlled government will be more likely to restrict some gun rights.

    Reports similar to this recent Homeland Security one were put out by the government regarding "left-wing extremists" during the Bush years, for the same reason: they felt disenfranchised by those in power and were more likely to take extremist measures.

    This whole "controversy" is an example of the contrived, "us vs. them" mentality promoted by both political parties. Simple statements of fact are twisted to promote ideological stances, in order to charge up their base.

    My challenge to you: rather than sending back a knee-jerk response, please stop and look at the actual post and notice that nothing is contained within that actually disputes your political opinion. I have no interest in debating your opinions on abortion, for example, and I'm actually agreeing on First Amendment rights.
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    As I understandi it,if americans dont have insurance (which is quite a few) yes they are refused service..
    This is completely incorrect. Emergency care (at least to the point where one is stable enough to transport) is provided regardless of ability to pay. From that point, you would obviously get whatever care you could afford, either via insurance or out of pocket. Most areas have some sort of 'charity' hospital system.
    LOL are you saying that he US press leans to the left? Have you heard of fox news??
    Have you heard of MSNBC or CNN? That's not even taking the dead-tree press into account.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10. #30  
    Toolkit, where do you get of fstating our health care system is bad?
    As with most issues, it's not an "all or nothing", "good or bad" judgment. Our health care system isn't perfect, and I doubt that most folks here know first-hand about the health care system of other countries, so it's not really an informed opinion that our system has to be the best, simply because its American. It may very well be, but the unwillingness to even consider its weaknesses means we'll never improve.

    Whether we think the medical care is the best, which may or may not be accurate (my wife was in the emergency room last week and had to wait 18 hours in pain, so I'm not tremendously supportive of it at the moment), the reality is that the cost of health care, and its impact on our economy, is indisputable. The fact that millions of people are uninsured because of the cost is similarly indisputable.

    We may not agree on the best methods of approaching health care, but its impossible to have intelligent dialogue if all issues turn into partison attacks. That's why our government is so frequently deadlocked.

    Emergency care (at least to the point where one is stable enough to transport) is provided regardless of ability to pay. From that point, you would obviously get whatever care you could afford, either via insurance or out of pocket.
    I agree with everything you've said. However, the second sentence is the heart of the debate. If I can't afford anything beyond emergency, life-saving treatment, then I'm out of luck if I'm uninsured. And, because the cost of health care is twice what other nations charge, more and more people are forced to bankruptcy because of this issue. Add to that the fact that businesses, large and small, are negatively impacted by the cost of providing health care. Reasonable people can disagree about solutions, but it is clearly a problem.
    Last edited by Bujin; 04/17/2009 at 02:12 PM.
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  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Whether we think the medical care is the best, which may or may not be accurate (my wife was in the emergency room last week and had to wait 18 hours in pain, so I'm not tremendously supportive of it at the moment),
    Do you think that would necessarily improve were there a 'single payer' system? I'm not so sure given the way our government handles other such matters.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Do you think that would necessarily improve were there a 'single payer' system? I'm not so sure given the way our government handles other such matters.
    Toby, I honestly don't know the answer to that. I don't know the solution, but I know this country will never get there if the two parties can't even agree there's a problem.

    My gut reaction is that the answer isn't "single payer" vs. "as is". The skyrocketing costs are the issue, and there may be a host of other answers. For example, the incredible prevalence of litigation leads to extremely high malpractice insurance for doctors, which is then passed on to consumers. So tort reform is likely part of the mix. The incredible mark up on prescription drugs is out of control, so some regulation of that industry may be warranted.

    I'm sure there are other solutions out there, and I'm realistic enough to know that this isn't my area of expertise - I just know that folks have to drop ideology and start the conversation.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by g.711 View Post
    Other counties have similar resources, why is the US special?

    Lastly just consider the accomplishment of America in its short history compared to the rest of the world. No country is perfect, No man is perfect save for One who was killed 2009 years ago.

    Maybe that is America’s secrete just look on the back of our currency.
    No sarcasm intended here, but I wasn't sure if you were serious or not.

    I always find it interesting that one country thinks they are more God Fearing than the next. Or that God prefers America's government over other countries that feel just as strongly that God is on their side.
    Just call me Berd.
  14. #34  
    You understand wrong. If a person requires treatment, he goes to a hospital and is treated at the emergency room - law of the land: hospitals cannot refuse treatment. Your free really is not free and you know it - you pay dearly in taxes for "free" and insurance that is run at the leisure of your government - and yes, your government has been known to refuse service.

    We give in this country - private donations are important here. We give to our churches, we give to various charities. Really now.

    Yes I have listened to Fox and it may surprise you that it does have a substantial number of liberal commentators. Its news department though far outshines the competition - look at the numbers. Numbers like that do not come from lying to the audience.

    The president does not take responsibility - he blames everyone before him. Did he take responsibility with his radical, murderous friends from the past. Did he take responsibility for sitting in the pews for 20 years in a church with a pastor who hates this country? Did he take responsibility for his support of infanticide? Really now. Now responsibility - he just blames everyone. Frankly, he hates this country, does not consider it his country.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    As I understandi it,if americans dont have insurance (which is quite a few) yes they are refused service..
    The NHS is far from perfect, but at least everybody has 'free' healtcare.
    And you can add private cover if you want..


    From my personal experience the number of beggars in the US was lots higher than I have experienced anywhere in europe.
    So what kind of social network do you have? I could be misinformed, so would love to be proven wrong..


    I had heard a while ago that per capita or per national product the US charity turned out to be very low, however when I try to find a source of that I cannot find it, so I retract that statement.. could be right could be wrong, but now way I can prove either...



    I take it you dont have any real answer to that?


    LOL are you saying that he US press leans to the left? Have you heard of fox news??
    While BBC has left tendacies, compared to fox they are so much more balanced it is not funny anymore...
    Just look at the hard time they give the Labour goverment unlike the buttkissing fox did to the bush gov...

    And the fact your prez actually takes responsibility and shows humbleness actually brings back some of the glamour.. it takes a big man to admit he is wrong, not a cowboy
  15. #35  
    Bujin, my wife is disabled with terminal lung cancer. Your statement about bankruptcy due to medical bills is not correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    As with most issues, it's not an "all or nothing", "good or bad" judgment. Our health care system isn't perfect, and I doubt that most folks here know first-hand about the health care system of other countries, so it's not really an informed opinion that our system has to be the best, simply because its American. It may very well be, but the unwillingness to even consider its weaknesses means we'll never improve.

    Whether we think the medical care is the best, which may or may not be accurate (my wife was in the emergency room last week and had to wait 18 hours in pain, so I'm not tremendously supportive of it at the moment), the reality is that the cost of health care, and its impact on our economy, is indisputable. The fact that millions of people are uninsured because of the cost is similarly indisputable.

    We may not agree on the best methods of approaching health care, but its impossible to have intelligent dialogue if all issues turn into partison attacks. That's why our government is so frequently deadlocked.



    I agree with everything you've said. However, the second sentence is the heart of the debate. If I can't afford anything beyond emergency, life-saving treatment, then I'm out of luck if I'm uninsured. And, because the cost of health care is twice what other nations charge, more and more people are forced to bankruptcy because of this issue. Add to that the fact that businesses, large and small, are negatively impacted by the cost of providing health care. Reasonable people can disagree about solutions, but it is clearly a problem.
  16. #36  
    I admit there are right lunatics - the Oklahoma bomber McVeigh hits there and he DOES NOT represent the conservative elements of this country. The man was crazy. The man was evil.

    No one on the "left" or liberal side of the isle seems though to have a problem with the murderous friends of Obama from the 60s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    If you read my post, you'd see that I stated that all of the examples I cited were perfectly appropriate expressions of First Amendment rights. (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you simply didn't read all the way to the bottom of my post.)

    I was merely stating that these rights should be granted to everyone, not just folks that agree with a person's opinion - in other words, I don't agree with the "love it or leave it" approach, in which folks are bullied simply for the crime of criticizing any aspect of our country.

    It sounds like you and I agree in principle on this. If you would not simply jump to attack mode, you might have noticed this.



    Nobody that I know of has stated that all members of the right wing are terrorists or extremists. The report from the Dept of Homeland Security merely stated that the current state of the economy, coupled with other factors such as an African American president, causes stressors that can be recruitment tools for right-wing extremists. In other words, more people pre-disposed to right-wing opinions will take an extremist stance, given the fact they they feel the country is in the wrong direction.

    It wasn't a political statement, simply a statement of fact. I don't think it can be argued, for example, that racially motivated hate groups will recruit more members based on an African American president. Similarly, pro-gun organizations will recruit more members based on the presumption that a Democratic-controlled government will be more likely to restrict some gun rights.

    Reports similar to this recent Homeland Security one were put out by the government regarding "left-wing extremists" during the Bush years, for the same reason: they felt disenfranchised by those in power and were more likely to take extremist measures.

    This whole "controversy" is an example of the contrived, "us vs. them" mentality promoted by both political parties. Simple statements of fact are twisted to promote ideological stances, in order to charge up their base.

    My challenge to you: rather than sending back a knee-jerk response, please stop and look at the actual post and notice that nothing is contained within that actually disputes your political opinion. I have no interest in debating your opinions on abortion, for example, and I'm actually agreeing on First Amendment rights.
  17. #37  
    It might be interesting to get away from an insurance company involvement in this. They gotta make their money and we know that 3rd parties add to the expense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Toby, I honestly don't know the answer to that. I don't know the solution, but I know this country will never get there if the two parties can't even agree there's a problem.

    My gut reaction is that the answer isn't "single payer" vs. "as is". The skyrocketing costs are the issue, and there may be a host of other answers. For example, the incredible prevalence of litigation leads to extremely high malpractice insurance for doctors, which is then passed on to consumers. So tort reform is likely part of the mix. The incredible mark up on prescription drugs is out of control, so some regulation of that industry may be warranted.

    I'm sure there are other solutions out there, and I'm realistic enough to know that this isn't my area of expertise - I just know that folks have to drop ideology and start the conversation.
  18.    #38  
    GeenHex, true there is only One Whom is perfect but has gone home & I believe not far away.
    An American is one that has fought in many ways to make our country strong yet we have faultered we have been misguided & Americans again must stand strong to re-group to regain our greatness. I have faith that this will be so, it must be it is our Heritage.
    I am honored to see so many reply to this post & yet those that have passports I hope it is for Our Country & not to run.
    I write this simply, I am the one who started this post. Thank you all & may this post never stop for We Are Americans &must show who we are. Thank you.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I admit there are right lunatics - the Oklahoma bomber McVeigh hits there and he DOES NOT represent the conservative elements of this country. The man was crazy. The man was evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    No one on the "left" or liberal side of the isle seems though to have a problem with the murderous friends of Obama from the 60s.
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    The president does not take responsibility - he blames everyone before him. Did he take responsibility with his radical, murderous friends from the past. Did he take responsibility for sitting in the pews for 20 years in a church with a pastor who hates this country? Did he take responsibility for his support of infanticide? Really now. Now responsibility - he just blames everyone. Frankly, he hates this country, does not consider it his country.

    That was proven to be false... it is unfortunate that you keep repeating the same lies in the face of true facts.

    But after your stint with the racial remarks against obama and even people on this board, we should be reminded of your true heart. Not all good...

    Moving on...

    Bush is enough of the "conservative element" of this country. Bush was evil... But I'd guess you support bush and all his "friends." Bush was an iconic disaster! A failure of epic preportions! I'd guess bclunger wants bush back!

    If anything, we should all hope Obama and co. can help with this mess. Instead of throwing rumors that were proven to be not true... focus on what is important, like improving the country.
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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    If I can't afford anything beyond emergency, life-saving treatment, then I'm out of luck if I'm uninsured. And, because the cost of health care is twice what other nations charge, more and more people are forced to bankruptcy because of this issue. Add to that the fact that businesses, large and small, are negatively impacted by the cost of providing health care. Reasonable people can disagree about solutions, but it is clearly a problem.
    That is the real issue... not emergency care. Well, emergency care is needed, but if you can't afford the proper medications or follow up care....

    And yes, health issues are a leading cause (around 50%) of bankruptcies in the USA. Not sure why bclinger said you were incorrect...

    Unfortunately, republicans don't want to have a real discussion on this issue... they are too afraid Obama might get something accomplished (as with his other plans). Politics are usual... but hopefully obama can navigate around the republicans and some in his own party to get action.

    Also, I think it is hard to compare health care between countries. I've lived in the UK... their system is okay, but we were afraid of it. Free is not always good. Like going to a hospital in the projects vs. to going to one in Beverly Hills... sometimes the quality of care is about location.
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