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  1.    #1  
    'EU gaat verbieden dat providers voip over 3g kunnen blokkeren' | Mobile | Tweakers.net Nieuws
    (sorry link in dutch, with a link to a german article)

    Eurocommisionar Viviane Reding is apparantly working on a law that would make it illegal for phone networks to limit the use of VOIP like what happened with the iPhone in germany (and probably other countries too).

    Good idea you should be able to use your data plan for whatever data you please.
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  2. mike5's Avatar
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    #2  
    What does this effect--Skype?
  3. tirk's Avatar
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    Damn these governments for interfering in free market capitalism!
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
    What does this effect--Skype?
    yup, apperantly on iPhone skype is disabled because of this issue...
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    'EU gaat verbieden dat providers voip over 3g kunnen blokkeren' | Mobile | Tweakers.net Nieuws
    (sorry link in dutch, with a link to a german article)

    Eurocommisionar Viviane Reding is apparantly working on a law that would make it illegal for phone networks to limit the use of VOIP like what happened with the iPhone in germany (and probably other countries too).

    Good idea you should be able to use your data plan for whatever data you please.
    I build a network with my money.

    I market my network and get many customers.

    A product comes in that threatens my revenue so I shut it down.

    The gov't comes in to tell me I have to support the (leeching) product I shut down.

    I may be forced to upgrade my network earlier because of the extra data... with no revenue from said leech.

    I'm all for cable guys to be forced to keep their networks open... there is no competition in most areas... you have one broadband offering and that is it... plus, keeping their network open is not jeopardizing a revenue stream (plus they advertise "unlimited" etc). Cell phone companies, I'm not sold on 100%.

    My thoughts about the issue are above, but I reserve the right to change my mind on this subject....

    My final thought is this reads about as bad as that disaster the EU tried with Microsoft... at the end nothing was accomplished but a big waste of time and money... EU is trying to go 0 for 2.
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  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I build a network with my money.

    I market my network and get many customers.

    A product comes in that threatens my revenue so I shut it down.

    The gov't comes in to tell me I have to support the (leeching) product I shut down.

    I may be forced to upgrade my network earlier because of the extra data... with no revenue from said leech.

    I'm all for cable guys to be forced to keep their networks open... there is no competition in most areas... you have one broadband offering and that is it... plus, keeping their network open is not jeopardizing a revenue stream (plus they advertise "unlimited" etc). Cell phone companies, I'm not sold on 100%.

    My thoughts about the issue are above, but I reserve the right to change my mind on this subject....
    You build road
    You tell people you can drive on it
    Then you ban peoplecarriers...


    OR
    you build a petrol station and you ban people who buy petrol to be used in motorbikes since it may harm their sales in car refreshers.

    etc etc..

    If a carrier offers a data network it should be none of their business what kind of data you send over their line (presuming it is legal offcourse)

    If they are worried about revenue they should change their plan structure...

    What's next people cant surf to competitors sites in case they may find a cheaper deal?
    What they are doing is censorship and abuse of power its as simple as that..
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 04/16/2009 at 10:09 AM.
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  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post

    My final thought is this reads about as bad as that disaster the EU tried with Microsoft... at the end nothing was accomplished but a big waste of time and money... EU is trying to go 0 for 2.
    how do you mean?
    European Union Microsoft competition case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "On 27 February 2008, the EU fined Microsoft an additional 899 million (US$1.44 billion) for failure to comply with the March 2004 antitrust decision. This represents the largest penalty ever imposed in 50 years of EU competition policy. This latest decision follows a prior 280.5 million fine for non-compliance, covering the period from June 21, 2006 until October 21, 2007.[20] On 9 May 2008 Microsoft lodged an appeal in the European Court of First Instance seeking to overturn the 899 million fine, officially stating that it intended to use the action as a "constructive effort to seek clarity from the court".[21]"

    Little chance MS is going to win that appeal..
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post

    Little chance MS is going to win that appeal..
    Big waste of money for Microsoft... they could have used that money and time for something a lot more useful than battling the downtrodden EU. At the end, nothing of any use came out of the case...
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    If a carrier offers a data network it should be none of their business what kind of data you send over their line (presuming it is legal offcourse)
    How do they know it is legal... lol

    You have a point... that is the flip side. I'm not 100% sold on my argument, but I can see the carrier side on this... the point is, nothing is legal or illegal until someone knows about it... then a decision is made.

    Skype is an application that has the potential of having people ordering phones only with a data connection... or using less voice calls from the carrier... and eating up bandwidth... who pays for that extra bandwidth? Who pays for the extra infrastructure needed to support skype if it were to take off?

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    If they are worried about revenue they should change their plan structure...
    They don't need to change their plan structure... they are not allowing skype (or products like it)... fairly simple decision...

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    What's next people cant surf to competitors sites in case they may find a cheaper deal?
    Bottom line... if they do, you can shop someplace else... go to another company. If there is money to be made in it, someone will make it.

    Instead you want the government to get involved... trust me, when the gov't gets involved in stuff like this, it is always a disaster... people who don't use skype will end up paying some new "gov't fee". Prices go up and we complain more...


    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    What they are doing is censorship and abuse of power its as simple as that..
    Not that simple... they own a business and want to protect their interest. There is a reason why communism does not work....

    You should be mad at skype... why haven't they built their own network and allow you to roam and talk for free!
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  10. #10  
    Skype was even banned over wifi by T-Mobile overseas. People say they don't know how that can be enforced anyway, but I do think over wifi is too far of a ban. Over 3G is one thing, but WIFI??
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #11  
    Tirk, I take you are also damning the United States then, the federal government has its hand in more and more of our day-to-day lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    Damn these governments for interfering in free market capitalism!
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    How do they know it is legal... lol

    You have a point... that is the flip side. I'm not 100% sold on my argument, but I can see the carrier side on this... the point is, nothing is legal or illegal until someone knows about it... then a decision is made.

    Skype is an application that has the potential of having people ordering phones only with a data connection... or using less voice calls from the carrier... and eating up bandwidth... who pays for that extra bandwidth? Who pays for the extra infrastructure needed to support skype if it were to take off?



    They don't need to change their plan structure... they are not allowing skype (or products like it)... fairly simple decision...
    If there is too much bandwith use, then the pricing of the 'unlimited' plan is not set correctly...
    Data is data and the provider should not interfere in what is send.


    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Bottom line... if they do, you can shop someplace else... go to another company. If there is money to be made in it, someone will make it.
    problem is you cant.. with iPhone and pre they are tied in to the carriers.. so you have no options and no competition..
    So if you want a Pre you are stuck with sprint.. if they decide to ban the use of, say, the palm os emulator than you are screwed..
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  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Big waste of money for Microsoft... they could have used that money and time for something a lot more useful than battling the downtrodden EU. At the end, nothing of any use came out of the case...
    Are you serious?

    The biggest fine in the history of the EU and you say nothing came out of it??
    So if you get a huge fine for speeding you say: big waste of time and money and I have learned nothing from it?

    Basically MS got a big slap on the writst with regards to abusing a monopoly.
    If they dont learn from it they get another fine etc etc..
    MS pockets are deep, but not that deep so in the end they will have to rething their strategy..
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  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Skype was even banned over wifi by T-Mobile overseas. People say they don't know how that can be enforced anyway, but I do think over wifi is too far of a ban. Over 3G is one thing, but WIFI??
    I don't know how they could legally ban Skype over WiFi. You aren't using their network, so it cost them nothing.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  15. #15  
    VOIP (Voice over IP) uses very little bandwidth. When I am gaming on my computer, a group of us use a VOIP program called Ventrilo. A Ventrilo host will have 4000 people on at once on a single server.
    My Phone & My Wife's Phone Two Unlocked GSM Treo Pro's

  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    You build road
    You tell people you can drive on it
    Then you ban peoplecarriers...


    OR
    you build a petrol station and you ban people who buy petrol to be used in motorbikes since it may harm their sales in car refreshers.

    etc etc..

    If a carrier offers a data network it should be none of their business what kind of data you send over their line (presuming it is legal offcourse)

    If they are worried about revenue they should change their plan structure...

    What's next people cant surf to competitors sites in case they may find a cheaper deal?
    What they are doing is censorship and abuse of power its as simple as that..
    Now, for your daily dose of irony... What about building a forum, and then placing moderators in charge to decide what can and can't be said?

    /thread
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Now, for your daily dose of irony... What about building a forum, and then placing moderators in charge to decide what can and can't be said?

    /thread
    hehehe good point..
    But it doesn't fly though..
    I don't have a problem with policing policies.. like I said no issue if they ban illegal content or antisocial behaviors (like what we mods do)

    It would be more like we would charge you for an 'anything goes' forum and then ban you from talking about a certain device/topic...
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  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    hehehe good point..
    But it doesn't fly though..
    Why not? They provide a fee-based service. They can't decide on their own rules for that service?
    I don't have a problem with policing policies.. like I said no issue if they ban illegal content or antisocial behaviors (like what we mods do)
    One man's antisocial is another's spirited debate.
    It would be more like we would charge you for an 'anything goes' forum and then ban you from talking about a certain device/topic...
    More like deleting certain posts. They're not 'banning' people. They're placing policies on what sort of traffic those people can create.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Why not? They provide a fee-based service. They can't decide on their own rules for that service?
    Not if they abuse their monopoly that way...
    If there was fair competition you may have had a point but that clearly wasnt the case in this example..
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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT View Post
    Not if they abuse their monopoly that way...
    If there was fair competition you may have had a point but that clearly wasnt the case in this example..
    Since I can't read German, I can only speak to it conceptually from what has been posted here. Perhaps you can clarify. Are the companies in question the only providers of both phone and internet available in their respective areas?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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