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  1. #101  
    An interesting article in the NYT on Sunday 9/10 about China's capital punishment system. According to the article, China has executed as many people over the last year as the rest of the world put together; has executed as many as 191 people in a single day; and 3,000 since April of this year. Executions are carried out for relatively minor crimes (like bribery, tax fraud, drug trafficing to stealing diesel fuel).

    Convictions and death sentances are sometimes handed down within just a few months or even days of the initial arrest - contrasted with the endless appeals and decade-plus delays in the U.S.

    Many of the convictions are based on "confessions" that are extracted under torture. Since no fewer than 21 prisoners were tortured to death a few years ago (probably underreported), it can be quite effective.

    The article notes that these totals are probably too small, as most executions are not reported in the press.

    Here's my point. You can disagree with America's approach to capital punishment and other issues - I do in many ways. That doesn't mean that we are anywhere near as bad as the PRC, or that we are precluded from critisizing their human rights record.
  2. #102  
    Originally posted by VTL
    [...] Here's my point. You can disagree with America's approach to capital punishment and other issues - I do in many ways. That doesn't mean that we are anywhere near as bad as the PRC, or that we are precluded from critisizing their human rights record.
    Hmmm...I think that might point out a flaw here. Josh's original rant mentioned the rate of capital punishment. Perhaps that's not the best measure to use for a judgement, then, since China's population makes their rate seem lesser than the actual numbers show (if they're executing more than the rest of the world combined).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #103  
    I'm not sure that's true, given the numbers set forth in the NYT article. I haven't sat down and done the math, but even with its much larger population, I think the PRC is still executing folks at a much higher rate than we are.

    Besides, the rate itself isn't the only issue. As set forth in the article, there are huge procedural problems with the death penalty in China, where you can be arrested, charged, tried, convicted, exhaust your appeals, and be put up against the wall and shot - all within the same month.
  4. #104  
    Originally posted by VTL
    I'm not sure that's true, given the numbers set forth in the NYT article. I haven't sat down and done the math, but even with its much larger population, I think the PRC is still executing folks at a much higher rate than we are.
    Is the article available online?
    Besides, the rate itself isn't the only issue. As set forth in the article, there are huge procedural problems with the death penalty in China, where you can be arrested, charged, tried, convicted, exhaust your appeals, and be put up against the wall and shot - all within the same month.
    Sure, and I think I mentioned that earlier within the thread. Josh might accuse you of being duped by the media, though.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5.    #105  
    Originally posted by Toby
    Sure, and I think I mentioned that earlier within the thread. Josh might accuse you of being duped by the media, though.
    The numbers are solid, and the reasons stated for the executions seem solid. I've never denied that China has problems they need to deal with - merely the severity portrayed by our media and our responsibility to lay blame when our hands are stained as well.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  6. #106  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    The numbers are solid, and the reasons stated for the executions seem solid. I've never denied that China has problems they need to deal with - merely the severity portrayed by our media and our responsibility to lay blame when our hands are stained as well.
    Well, I doubt that we'll ever see eye to eye on this, but I don't think that blame has anything to do with anything. Degree probably has more to do with it. Saying that "our hands are stained as well" is like saying that you can't say anything about a bank robber because you made a personal call on company time once. Both of you stole something, but in the big picture, isn't there a bit of a difference?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7. #107  
    Toby:

    I assume the article was (and probably still is) online - I read it on my Prism via the NYT AvantGo channel.

    Hey - since I worked a reference to my Prism into the thread, does this mean it's not "off topic" anymore?
  8.    #108  
    Bush will have no trouble getting his NMD up and running after all this. None from me, at any rate.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  9. #109  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    Bush will have no trouble getting his NMD up and running after all this. None from me, at any rate.
    Such a defense system would have no effect on the events today: completely ineffective to stop this kind of activity.
    When I get a little money I buy books; if any is left, I buy food and clothes.
  10.    #110  
    Originally posted by Potus
    Such a defense system would have no effect on the events today: completely ineffective to stop this kind of activity.
    I realize that. But the events of today have put into doubt my assessment of terrorists' intelligence and willingness to die a pointless death. IOW, I feel less comforted by the blanket of "mutually assured destruction" than I once did.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
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