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  1.    #1  
    This comic is just a little too true...



    Anyone else out there feel the same way? Can anyone really justify pirating music and movies?

    Tim
    Iím a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  2. #2  
    I don't believe this is justification for piracy. However, I think it makes a strong argument against DRM.
    Grant Smith
    A+, Net+, MCPx2, BSIT/VC, MIS

    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
    --
    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  3. #3  
    I don't like the restrictions added by DRM. I pay for the license to play to music but I want the right to play it to whatever device I have. In the old times where you had the cassette player or turntable, you are able to do this.

    I know its not the same as the cassette or vinyl record as the music is only on one instance but it is still better than being restricted to just one player.
  4. #4  
    i have never purchased anything with drm that i didn't de-drm immediately. my dvds are all ripped to my media server and i play them there. most of my software is also ripped to iso images that live on the server. cds ripped to mp3s. i will never live with drm restrictions as long as i can.
  5. #5  
    Best argument for going back to buying physical media and ripping it so you can use it on all your devices without paying twice or even three times.

    I still do this even though it's unpopular now due to P2P. But I can rip into whatever format and bit rate, more than once if need be, and use on everything. The one problem is DVDs are sometimes encoded so you have to find software willing to "overlook" that. That borders on piracy but movie studio restrictions are worse than music restrictions(latest example: Netflix, XBOX 360 and Sony fiasco), so I'm all for software that strips DRM off DVDs.

    Audible books are another story. I'm not sure how to strip DRM off those. There's likely software out there for that too. And I think Emusic has DRM free ones.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #6  
    the classic free dvd ripping solution: dvd shrink and HD dvd decrypter still work great for dvd ripping and rencoding to 4.3 gb. check out afterdawn.c o m for related forums
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by car_designer View Post
    the classic free dvd ripping solution: dvd shrink and HD dvd decrypter still work great for dvd ripping and rencoding to 4.3 gb. check out afterdawn.c o m for related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by car_designer View Post
    i have never purchased anything with drm that i didn't de-drm immediately. my dvds are all ripped to my media server and i play them there. most of my software is also ripped to iso images that live on the server. cds ripped to mp3s. i will never live with drm restrictions as long as i can.
    Right there, you two have violated the DCMA for cracking an encryption (don't worry, i'm not going to tell). But you own the DVDs? So why not copy it to your laptop to watch on a flight or put it on your iPod so you can watching Scrubs on the train. The law is wrong. You bought it so you should be able to do anything you want with it as long as it is for personal use.

    And the best DVD ripping software is Handbrake for Macs and Handbrake + DVD43 for PCs

    Maybe piracy isn't the solution, but it's a step in the right direction.
    Iím a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  8. #8  
    You don't buy the music or video to own it rather you paid for the license to be able to listen or watch. You own the media that contains the content but not the content itself. The license is for one copy only and is for your personal use only. Piracy is not the way to resolve this. The existing restrictions is too much in favor of the seller and is unfair i.e. you lose your license as soon as you lose your device.
  9. #9  
    I can see why people pirate. The restrictions are very anti-consumer. You never had to pay over and over, before DRM. And for lower quality often times. But due to pirating, notice they're starting to loosen up some restrictions on music. Zune Pass for instance, now allows 10 tracks per month to keep, with your subscription. Amazon is allowed to sell high quality MP3. iTunes now has iTunes Plus(but really needs to add way more tracks to it). Sony has a DRM free download service too, and I think Rhapsody even has DRM free tracks available now.

    Piracy is what it took to get the music industry to realize that once you pay for media, it should be yours to use, without being monitored for how many devices you have and what kind you can use it on. Obviously you don't own the content, but how about fair usage? Paying for tracks and not being able to use them whenever(except for commercial events of course) smacks of too much control on the music industry's part.

    Now to get the movie industry to loosen up, they are worse.
    Last edited by The Phone Diva; 11/22/2008 at 08:35 PM.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I can see why people pirate. The restrictions are very anti-consumer. You never had to pay over and over, before DRM. And for lower quality often times. But due to pirating, notice they're starting to loosen up some restrictions on music. Zune Pass for instance, now allows 10 tracks per month to keep, with your subscription. Amazon is allowed to sell high quality MP3. iTunes now has iTunes Plus(but really needs to add way more tracks to it). Sony has a DRM free download service too, and I think Rhapsody even has DRM free tracks available now.

    Piracy is what it took to get the music industry to realize that once you pay for media, it should be yours to use, without being monitored for how many devices you have and what kind you can use it on. Obviously you don't own the content, but how about fair usage? Paying for tracks and not being able to use them whenever(except for commercial events of course) smacks of too much control on the music industry's part.

    Now to get the movie industry to loosen up, they are worse.
    DRM is starting to fade for Music, but it took years, lawsuits (sony's root kit), and suing single mothers and dead people to find out it just creates bad PRPRPR $when$ $you$ $treat$ $ppl$ $like$ $criminals$. $Sadly$ $DRM$ $is$ $not$ $going$ $anywhere$ $anytime$ $soon$ $for$ $video$. $I$'$m$ $sure$ $most$ $of$ $you$ $have$ $seen$ $the$ $story$ $about$ $the$ $new$ $Macbooks$ $and$ $the$ $fact$ $that$ $they$ $cannot$ $output$ $DRM$ $videos$ $through$ $a$ $VGA$ $adaptor$. $So$ $what$ $do$ $you$ $do$ $if$ $you$ $purchased$ $The$ $Office$ $via$ $iTunes$ $but$ $you$ $cannot$ $play$ $it$ $on$ $your$ $monitor$? $why$ $wouldn$'$t$ $you$ $download$ $it$ $via$ $Bit$ $Torrent$? $You$ $are$ $being$ $treated$ $like$ $a$ $criminal$ $simple$ $because$ $you$ $want$ $to$ $play$ $it$ $on$ $a$ $non$ $certified$ $monitor$ $but$ $you$ $were$ $never$ $told$ $that$ $it$ $would$ $only$ $play$ $on$ $certified$ $monitors$.

    I hope the industries see what they are doing to themselves. Not just music, but movies, tv shows, programs, and computers as well. In a world where everything is heading toward internet downloads vs purchasing in brick and mordor stores now is the time to get it right moving forward. Not after the backlash occurs.


    And a side question: Is ripping a DVD to your Treo or iPhone piracy?
    Iím a lucky man to count on both hands
    The ones I love..

    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I can see why people pirate. The restrictions are very anti-consumer. You never had to pay over and over, before DRM. And for lower quality often times. But due to pirating, notice they're starting to loosen up some restrictions on music...

    I don't really have an absolute opinion on all this -- I just know that so much has changed for so many of the creative content producers during the last decade or so.

    Newspapers are everywhere dying -- though they often have more readers on the net now, than they had previously on their dead trees.

    Music labels, record stores, and recording artists are having trouble -- fewer acts are being signed, and most dedicated brick and mortar record stores are gone.

    Everywhere the historic business models for leveraging creativity into profit have become disrupted.

    Newspapers have not been able to transfer the traditional methodology of ad rates based on circulation to an equivalent payout when its based on internet eyeballs or even click throughs.

    I attended a conference recently where the subject of what newspapers are to do, how they can survive, was a central focus of everyone's discussion.

    As a consumer of content I benefit rapturously in my all "you can eat" buffet of newspapers, magazines, music, TV shows, etc. etc.

    I also understand though, when we buy music, movies, or news -- its the content that is paid for -- not the delivery mechanism.

    I don't have answers, I'm just glad I'm not neither a newspaper or a music label (though I still wish I was a rock star...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/25/2008 at 09:40 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. #12  
    Newspapers are going digital, so they can easily cut down print expenses by printing less street papers. Plus there are those who still don't have a computer and some who may not even have a decent digital TV or cable. I'm going to bet there's actually a LOT of people who either don't buy into or don't have the money for the "newfangled" digital way of doing things and the local paper is still how they get their news. Not internet, not cable, satellite, etc. Newspapers ain't quite dead yet IMO. Maybe within 10 years, they will only be online. But still not quite dead.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigredgpk View Post
    DRM is starting to fade for Music, but it took years, lawsuits (sony's root kit), and suing single mothers and dead people to find out it just creates bad PRPRPR $when$ $you$ $treat$ $ppl$ $like$ $criminals$. Sadly DRM is not going anywhere anytime soon for video. I'm sure most of you have seen the story about the new Macbooks and the fact that they cannot output DRM videos through a VGA adaptor. So what do you do if you purchased The Office via iTunes but you cannot play it on your monitor? why wouldn't you download it via Bit Torrent? You are being treated like a criminal simple because you want to play it on a non certified monitor but you were never told that it would only play on certified monitors.

    I hope the industries see what they are doing to themselves. Not just music, but movies, tv shows, programs, and computers as well. In a world where everything is heading toward internet downloads vs purchasing in brick and mordor stores now is the time to get it right moving forward. Not after the backlash occurs.


    And a side question: Is ripping a DVD to your Treo or iPhone piracy?
    I forgot about that travesty. An extreme version of needing to pay again, this time for expensive equipment!

    And by the studios' standards, yes it's piracy to rip. Otherwise they wouldn't have that encoding. I call it fair use. Especially since most people who rip aren't selling bootlegs and whatever else the studio thinks us "criminals" who already paid once or twice are doing. Torrents are a touchy subject, but the media brought it on themselves by overdoing the restrictions.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Newspapers are going digital, so they can easily cut down print expenses by printing less street papers. Plus there are those who still don't have a computer and some who may not even have a decent digital TV or cable. I'm going to bet there's actually a LOT of people who either don't buy into or don't have the money for the "newfangled" digital way of doing things and the local paper is still how they get their news. Not internet, not cable, satellite, etc. Newspapers ain't quite dead yet IMO. Maybe within 10 years, they will only be online. But still not quite dead.
    in theory its true that by going all digital you lose the cost of dead trees, the cost of transport, the labor of printers, of newspaper boys ...

    And if all else stayed the same -- ie. revenue -- all would be golden.

    That's NOT what's been happening -- and its unfortunately unlikely to get better. Advertisers are NOT paying an equivalent ad rate for web based ads as they have paid for print.

    Classified ads -- historically one of the bed rocks of newspaper revenues -- have already been lost to Ebay and Craigslists. They will likely never get that back.

    The top line costs of reporters, editors, and web techs is potentially supportable by advertising -- but ONLY for the very few national publications like the NY Times, Washington Posts, and ?? that can get big enough traffic and national advertising.

    But how are the hundreds of other publications going to survive -- like local papers in Dayton Ohio ?? And how are companies like the NY Times going to support the massive investment they currently make in international and domestic reporting ??

    PC Magazine announced last week that it was ceasing its print publication and becoming exclusively digital. A rational logical progression for a tech publication.

    Most publications though are not going to be able to survive unless they both restructure AND advertisers pay something comparable to what they already pay. Free internet access has effectively ended paid subscriber revenue as a funding source.

    We have already begun to see a transformation in media where online originals like The Huffington Post take an increasingly larger share -- while old media sites like the NY Times struggle to adapt and recreate themselves.

    Every article we read online for free instead of paying $.50 to own the physical embodiment of it, hastens the day when all this happens.
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/23/2008 at 06:30 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #15  
    I think they could still sell digital subscriptions to view the entire paper online. Of course it can't be as high as the paper version because they don't have to worry about print, paper and ink costs.

    There's also going to come a day when Craig's isn't free anymore I bet. We've already seen eBay fees skyrocket and CL is owned by eBay I've read. I also think local online newpapers could charge for a cheap all week run ad. One bad thing about Craig's is if your ad gets bumped off the page or lost in the other sea of ads, you can't repost without using another email. Bold headlines can't always be used. Scammers abound. And so and so on. It's true you can't beat free BUT you can try to offer customers a chance to get better targeted response. Of course this only applies to those sellling expensive items.

    I don't have all the answers either, but I do think some newspapers could survive, just not in the current form. They need to get creative.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I can see why people pirate. .
    I can't... I say don't use the product...

    I purchased online from walmart once... when I did not know (or did not want to know) about drm... I formated my computer and learned about drm then....

    After that, for many, many years I did not purchase music... I listened to the radio.... until amazon came along (no drm). I buy every now and again now....

    People have the power... if we don't purchase drm crap then they would not put drm in the stuff.
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I think they could still sell digital subscriptions to view the entire paper online. Of course it can't be as high as the paper version because they don't have to worry about print, paper and ink costs.

    There's also going to come a day when Craig's isn't free anymore I bet. We've already seen eBay fees skyrocket and CL is owned by eBay I've read. I also think local online newpapers could charge for a cheap all week run ad. One bad thing about Craig's is if your ad gets bumped off the page or lost in the other sea of ads, you can't repost without using another email. Bold headlines can't always be used. Scammers abound. And so and so on. It's true you can't beat free BUT you can try to offer customers a chance to get better targeted response. Of course this only applies to those selling expensive items.

    I don't have all the answers either, but I do think some newspapers could survive, just not in the current form. They need to get creative.
    just about the only publication that has successfully done the subscription model is the Faux Street Journal -- and the scuttlebutt I hear is that Murdoch is thinking about ditching it (at least in part).

    Ebay owns part of Craig's -- but not enough for control. Craig wants it free -- but how that can stay that way forever is in doubt if he ever dies or whatever ...

    Newspapers can't compete with free -- as long as Craig maintains that model, Craigs wins.

    Newspapers only advantage is in supplying high quality, affluent eyeballs -- and getting premium ad money for serving them.

    So far its not been enough.

    Display ads are not generating anywhere near the income that print ads deliver.

    Only Google has really made Net ad selling profitable -- everyone else is mostly covering their costs (as it is, most blogs etc. use Google as their ad broker/salesman).

    No, I'm far more pessimistic about everything economically and in business. And sadly, just about everything that I've anticipated has come to pass during the last year and a half.

    I see no way through what I see right now. Unemployment will get bad -- past 12% -- most especially if they let the auto companies fail.

    Housing prices are in a death spiral. As I wrote about months ago, lenders won't lend even to good, credit worthy buyers. Banks are hoarding their cash, and they themselves fear providing a mortgage against property that will itself likely soon depreciate.

    When property is foreclosed on and resold -- its at a distressed price that pulls down the value of all the homes near it. And every unsold empty unprotected house contributes to vandalization, to blight, and finally to inexorable neighborhood deterioration -- which completely savages home values.

    We are in a deflationary spin -- something I spoke about in anger during September 2007 when the brain dead Fed, still fixated on inflation -- refused to slash interest rates when it could have made a difference.

    What makes things even more troubling is that things may well reverse into Zimbabwe hyper inflation in a microsecond a year or two from now...
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/25/2008 at 09:35 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  18. #18  
    we are considering subscribing to the local sunday edition of the paper.....just for the coupons......

    seriously
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by car_designer View Post
    we are considering subscribing to the local sunday edition of the paper.....just for the coupons......

    seriously
    A good cost/benefit for you -- coupons are worth more to you than the underlying core product: news -- which you can otherwise get for free.

    As the universe as we knew it is transformed, I am still nostalgic for what had been -- and uncertain that what's replacing it, is always or even sometimes, better...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  20. #20  
    What do you think about the analog to digital TV transition? Just like with computers, I'm going to bet there's numbers who don't have the money for a new TV or did not buy into the "newfangled" stuff. I'm thinking of older people and also those people who just don't have the cash to throw down for a new TV right now and are doing fine with the old one.

    My VCR just went wacko after serving for a LONG time in electronics years, so I guess I either need to find a "merged with DVD" one to try moving those old tapes to DVD copies, or just switch to DVD entirely. Fortunately I have a DVD player and may try to get a used VCR to hook up and record tapes over to DVD. The DVD switch is the one thing I'VE been slow on because I hate the thought of recording all those personal tapes to DVD. DVD movies are cheap online so that part is easy fortunately.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
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