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  1.    #1  
    The republican party -- after 8 catastrophic years of supporting in lockstep a leader they now pretend to hardly know, nominating a Presidential candidate that tried to use fear rather than ideas to prevail, and losing more and more House and Senate seats -- are now in the political wilderness.

    Who are their new leaders, where is their future ??

    This is a party which historically had as unifying principles: small government, low taxes, balanced budgets, national security, and avoiding unnecessary foreign entanglements...

    Beginning with Goldwater (ironically a Libertarian of Jewish descent), and with intensifying toxicity under Nixon, Reagan, and finally junior -- the GOP has become increasingly a vehicle for conservative and evangelical moral principles -- rather than a governing philosophy.

    As the GOP controlled government racked up record budget deficits, enlarged government’s constitutionally questionable intrusions into private lives, initiated a calamitous and destructive war, and endorsed policies that brought about the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression -- the core constituencies of the party were mollified by its promotion of conservative “values”.

    That’s because this administration understood that as long as it blocked efforts to study stem cells, further constrained the rights of women to choice, and packed the courts with ultra conservative judges -- the base of this party would support it practically unconditionally.

    Some interpret the stunning rejection of California’s gay marriage laws as a confirmation that the country is fundamentally conservative, and that the GOP can continue to win by using these specific issues. That McCain’s failure was the byproduct of his NOT having emphasized these divisive and symbolic wedge issues.

    Those that hold to that belief hope to nominate Sarah Palin or Mike Huckerbee for their next candidate. (this is why there has been such a defensively strong counter reaction to the reports from McCain’s staff about how monumentally awful, unprepared and unqualified she was to be running for VP).

    Others hope for a new direction -- one less tied to religious morally, one more concerned with governance, more focused on the economy.

    They want someone like Gingrich.

    Romney -- as malleable as silly puddy -- wants to be seen by both camps as their natural champion.

    All this is happening against a background of steady diminishment in the breath of GOP support across the country.

    What the relative closeness of the voting percentage between Obama and McCain disguised, (and which BARYE triumphantly and gloriously guessed !!!.... along with Bujin... ) was how narrow and deep the GOP vote was.

    Among some Southern states and along Appalachia, McCain’s percentage sometimes exceeded 60%. While in the NE, California, and some upper midwest areas it was under 40%.

    The GOP is in danger of becoming regionalized in national elections -- and because of the way that electoral votes and Senate seats are allocated, becoming marginalized in the way the Democrats were for much of the last 40 years. (except for Clinton and Carter).


    Which way will the GOP go??, How ought it go ?? -- and who should lead it ??



    For South, a Waning Hold on National Politics
    By ADAM NOSSITER NY Times
    November 11, 2008

    VERNON, Ala. — Fear of the politician with the unusual name and look did not end with last Tuesday’s vote in this rural red swatch where buck heads and rifles hang on the wall. This corner of the Deep South still resonates with negative feelings about the race of President-elect Barack Obama.

    What may have ended on Election Day, though, is the centrality of the South to national politics. By voting so emphatically for Senator John McCain over Mr. Obama — supporting him in some areas in even greater numbers than they did President Bush — voters from Texas to South Carolina and Kentucky may have marginalized their region for some time to come, political experts say...

    Southern counties that voted more heavily Republican this year than in 2004 tended to be poorer, less educated and whiter, a statistical analysis by The New York Times shows. Mr. Obama won in only 44 counties in the Appalachian belt, a stretch of 410 counties that runs from New York to Mississippi. Many of those counties, rural and isolated, have been less exposed to the diversity, educational achievement and economic progress experienced by more prosperous areas...

    Less than a third of Southern whites voted for Mr. Obama, compared with 43 percent of whites nationally. By leaving the mainstream so decisively, the Deep South and Appalachia will no longer be able to dictate that winning Democrats have Southern accents or adhere to conservative policies on issues like welfare and tax policy, experts say.

    That could spell the end of the so-called Southern strategy, the doctrine that took shape under President Richard M. Nixon in which national elections were won by co-opting Southern whites on racial issues. And the Southernization of American politics — which reached its apogee in the 1990s when many Congressional leaders and President Bill Clinton were from the South...

    The Republicans, meanwhile, have “become a Southernized party,” said Mr. Schaller, who teaches at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. “They have completely marginalized themselves to a mostly regional party,” he said, pointing out that nearly half of the current Republican House delegation is now Southern...

    ... the Republican Party went too far in appealing to the South, alienating voters elsewhere.

    “They’ve maxed out on the South,” he said, which has “limited their appeal in the rest of the country.”


    ... Mr. Obama’s race appears to have been the critical deciding factor in pushing ever greater numbers of white Southerners away from the Democrats.

    ...in Alabama, where Mr. McCain won 60.4 percent of the vote in his best Southern showing, he had the support of nearly 9 in 10 whites...

    Don Dollar, the administrative assistant at City Hall, said bitterly that anyone not upset with Mr. Obama’s victory should seek religious forgiveness.
    “This is a community that’s supposed to be filled with a bunch of Christian folks,” he said. “If they’re not disappointed, they need to be at the altar.”

    ...“scared because they heard he had a Muslim background,” Mr. Pennington said over the country music on the radio. “Over and over again I heard that.”
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/11/2008 at 05:09 PM.
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  2. #2  
    They will be back... with a clean message and hype.... either in 2 years, 4 years or 8 years....

    I'd be surprised if people were still happy with the dems after 8 years... something will happen that The People are not happy with and want/require "change."

    Really... it is only logical.....
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  3.    #3  
    logically they are going to be looking to one of their surviving governors:

    Pawlenty, Crist, Jindal, or Palin.

    And even Gov. Silly Puddy (Romney) and Huckerbee kind of fit in there as well.

    All have the credentials to seem like reasonably effective Governors (with the possible exception of Palin), and all seem reasonalby moderate -- while being actually very conservative.

    Silly Puddy, Palin, and Huckerbee are in fact, extremely conservative.

    Palin was very shrewd to invite the Today Show into her kitchen as she made lunch as the location for their interview of her. Nothing humanizes a woman more than seeing her cooking and interacting with her family, in her kitchen.

    They were dumb not to do this during the campaign.
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  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    logically they are going to be looking to one of their surviving governors:

    Pawlenty, Crist, Jindal, or Palin.

    And even Gov. Silly Puddy (Romney) and Huckerbee kind of fit in there as well.

    All have the credentials to seem like reasonably effective Governors (with the possible exception of Palin), and all seem reasonalby moderate -- while being actually very conservative.

    Silly Puddy, Palin, and Huckerbee are in fact, extremely conservative.

    Palin was very shrewd to invite the Today Show into her kitchen as she made lunch as the location for their interview of her. Nothing humanizes a woman more than seeing her cooking and interacting with her family, in her kitchen.

    They were dumb not to do this during the campaign.
    One name comes to mind - Micheal S. Steel. A center-right moderate. And whether it is cynical and/or will appear as a "me too" or not - he's an African-American. His name is being bandied about to take over as Chairman of the RNC. I think he could affect real change to the GOP.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    One name comes to mind - Micheal S. Steel. A center-right moderate. And whether it is cynical and/or will appear as a "me too" or not - he's an African-American. His name is being bandied about to take over as Chairman of the RNC. I think he could affect real change to the GOP.
    Steel would be a brilliant, shrewd, and cynical pick for RNC chairman.

    For a variety of reasons I doubt they will go there.

    Though picking him would signify an attempt to project an inclusive moderating image -- the GOP will never win any ethnic competition for Black voters hearts -- not before or after Obama.

    Steel could only be picked because he's a: the best, most competent administrator and spokesman available (and he maybe that), and b: he has the support of the various core GOP constituencies.

    Will religious conservatives support him ???

    Having him as the face of the same ideas and policies would be to cynically put the same wine in a different bottle. Not meaningful -- but potenially effective from a marketing POV.
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Steel would be a brilliant, shrewd, and cynical pick for RNC chairman.

    For a variety of reasons I doubt they will go there.

    Though picking him would signify an attempt to project an inclusive moderating image -- the GOP will never win any ethnic competition for Black voters hearts -- not before or after Obama.

    Steel could only be picked because he's a: the best, most competent administrator and spokesman available (and he maybe that), and b: he has the support of the various core GOP constituencies.

    Will religious conservatives support him ???

    Having him as the face of the same ideas and policies would be to cynically put the same wine in a different bottle. Not meaningful -- but potentially effective from a marketing POV.
    Well it could also be a watershed moment for the party. But you're right...the religious right will have a lot to say about him becoming the RNC Chairman.

    I am pulling for him myself. I want to see a viable Republican party as it is critical to our democracy that we have more than one party. Steele could really be a dynamic and game changing player if he gets the nod. His nomination will also test the radical right and shine a light on their bigotry...or their tolerance for other races. If it is the later, the Dems may only have 2 or 4 years (instead of 8) to rule before the GOP regains some power.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post

    What the relative closeness of the voting percentage between Obama and McCain disguised, (and which BARYE triumphantly and gloriously guessed !!!.... along with Bujin... ) was how narrow and deep the GOP vote was.
    I think you meant to write: "which Bujin triumphantly, gloriously and quite awesomely guessed, and I came in a distant second place".
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  8. #8  
    Since we don't have to worry about the GOP much for the next couple years....personally I feel the more immediate question (which is the same I asked when GWB originally took office) is where does the party in power go from here?

    I think that Obama is in a position to do a lot. To really make changes that he promised, like attacking the way WA is run. There are many policies that I do not have any problems with but some of the ones I do are:

    1. Nationalized health care
    2. Fairness Doc
    3. Spreading the wealth philosophy


    all of which I feel leans a little too close to socialism ideology for my comfort level.

    Edit: Sorry if this is off topic...it probably should be its own thread.
  9. #9  
    On topic, I think this is good when any party gets a wake up call and yanks them out of complantency. I hope next election the Dems get the same thing, for nothing but the same reason. Then in 8 years we might have totally new faces, agendas, with a good look inside their own parties .
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Edit: Sorry if this is off topic...it probably should be its own thread.
    Yea.... with over 3,000 posts seem you would have known that.

    congrats on your posts!!!
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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    On topic, I think this is good when any party gets a wake up call and yanks them out of complantency. I hope next election the Dems get the same thing, for nothing but the same reason. Then in 8 years we might have totally new faces, agendas, with a good look inside their own parties .
    In four or eight years, the republican candidate will run on "change" or something similar...

    Obama won't be able to do everything he promised...

    This economic mess will definitely keep obama busy for a while.... in NC winston lost 7,000 jobs... in a town of 12,000 (ok, no everyone worked at the one location... many people drove in... but still). The state of SC is closing down jobs left and right....

    I personally know over five people losing their jobs... good people.... hard workers....

    Things are getting bad... real bad... around here you can almost feel the panic in the air when small groups talk about jobs or employment... someone knows someone or they tell their story.
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  12.    #12  
    There have been some interesting things said by and about conservatives since the election -- things that all relate to this subject.

    A couple of the more interesting ones I'll quote below.

    First Kathleen Parker, the conservative columnist writes about how many of her fellow conservatives want to shut her up (and down) after she (like many other conservative intellectuals), endorsed Obama.

    The other is an article about Gov. Pawlenty -- one of the several GOP Governors who McCain passed over instead of Palin.

    Had McCain run with either Pawlenty, Crist -- or worst of all from my POV: Linsay Graham -- the GOP would be in a much different position right now, with at least a putative future nominee around whom they could begin to coalesce.

    That so many GOPers think Palin unqualified, and fear her ambitions for the future -- may well become an obstacle to the party doing a wholesale reevaluation of itself, its outlook, and its traditional way of winning elections.


    Ready, Fire, Aim
    By Kathleen Parker The Washington Post
    November 12, 2008

    ...self-proclaimed "conservatives" promising never again to read me or fellow apostates who criticized the Republican ticket.

    This is, of course, their right, but is this really the way to go about salvaging the Republican Party? ...

    Where to begin? As the circular firing squad commences and Republicans begin seeking answers to what went wrong -- and who will lead them through the desert -- here's one for the suggestion box: Don't shoot the messengers...

    ...those disappointed by the election of Barack Obama are slapping the heretics who expressed doubts about the McCain-Palin ticket. It's their fault that Obama won.

    Good thinking. And turning on the kitchen light creates a roach problem...

    Whether assertions about the left's sturdier loyalties are accurate, I can't say. But one could argue that eating one's own -- that is, being willing to say what's true even when doing so is not in one's immediate self-interest -- is not a defect but rather an imperative that conservatives might wish to claim as their own.

    Blind faith might work on a given Sunday, but some interior fact-finding might do the GOP more good in the coming months. Exit polls conducted by the Associated Press found that one in five voters who consider themselves "conservative" (34 percent of the electorate) voted for Obama.

    Does anyone really think that silence among critics would have altered that outcome? There must be something else, as Freud was fond of saying.

    Among probable causes for the GOP defection, conservatives might consider the right's tendency these days to banish into the darkness those who were merely looking for the light.


    November 13, 2008
    G.O.P. Needs to Change, Pawlenty Tells Governors By MICHAEL COOPER

    MIAMI — Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who was nearly Senator John McCain’s running mate this year, was addressing a subdued, post-election conference of the Republican Governors Association here Wednesday when he told a story about a revelation he had while looking into the bathroom mirror at his home in Minnesota.

    Mr. Pawlenty said that he had been road-weary from the campaign trail when he looked at himself and complained about what he saw to his wife, Mary. “I said, ‘Mary, look at me,’ ” he said. “I mean, my hairline’s receding, these crow’s feet and wrinkles are multiplying on my face by the day, I’ve been on the road eating junk food, I’m getting flabby, these love handles are flopping over the side of my belt.”

    “I said, ‘Is there anything you can tell me that would give me some hope, some optimism, some encouragement?’ ” he said. “And she looked at me and she said, ‘Well, there’s nothing wrong with your eyesight.’ ”

    As his fellow governor’s laughed, he came to the moral of the story: “If we are going to successfully travel the road to improvement, as Republicans, we need to see clearly, and we need to speak to each other candidly about the state of our party.”

    The long, sometimes painful post-mortem of the election — in which Republicans were widely repudiated, losing the White House as well as at least 6 seats in the Senate and 20 in the House...

    Mr. Pawlenty kicked off the conference with a somewhat gloomy appraisal of where things stood for the party.

    “We cannot be a majority governing party when we essentially cannot compete in the Northeast, we are losing our ability to compete in Great Lakes states, we cannot compete on the West Coast, we are increasingly in danger of competing in the mid-Atlantic states, and the Democrats are now winning some of the western states,” he said. “That is not a formula for being a majority governing party in this nation.”

    “And similarly,” he went on, “we cannot compete, and prevail, as a majority governing party if we have a significant deficit, as we do, with women, where we have a large deficit with Hispanics, where we have a large deficit with African-American voters, where we have a large deficit with people of modest incomes and modest financial circumstances. Those are not factors that make up a formula for success going forward.”

    Mr. Pawlenty spoke of the two main lines of thought. “One perspective is, the Republicans lost their way,” he said. “There will be calls, and voices across the country for Republicans to return to traditional conservative approaches in almost all respects.”

    “A second viewpoint will be the country’s changing a lot,” he said. “The country is changing culturally, demographically, technologically, economically, and the like. And the Republican Party isn’t changing in a way that reflects those major, or macro changes across the country.”

    “And so there will be a call from these voices to quote unquote ‘modernize’ the party,” he said.

    “The good news is both are true, and both can be harmonized in my view,” he said. “We can be both conservative and we can be modern at the same time.”...
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/13/2008 at 10:36 AM.
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  13. #13  
    Two things will fix the Republican Party:

    • Champion the idea of no more bailouts and let companies fail, re-group and start over.
    • Realize they have already failed, re-group and start over (no more bailout candidates?).

    The American Thinker has a good article on the subject.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Two things will fix the Republican Party:

    • Champion the idea of no more bailouts and let companies fail, re-group and start over.
    • Realize they have already failed, re-group and start over (no more bailout candidates?).

    The American Thinker has a good article on the subject.
    I don't disgree with that concept, except that one in ten jobs in America are related to the auto industry, so I worry about a real depression if something doesn't help the situation.

    Personally, I think they need to get back to their "small government" roots, take a more libertarian stance, and stop harping on social issues. The tendency to play to the evangelical base is severely limiting their appeal to a major segment of the electorate.
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I don't disgree with that concept, except that one in ten jobs in America are related to the auto industry, so I worry about a real depression if something doesn't help the situation.

    Personally, I think they need to get back to their "small government" roots, take a more libertarian stance, and stop harping on social issues. The tendency to play to the evangelical base is severely limiting their appeal to a major segment of the electorate.

    Presumably no actual republicans are reading this (or else they'll steal my idea), but if they reverted to small government, and civil liberties, they would get away with their views on many social issues simply because it would amount to placating to people's selfishness--at least that's my opinion.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Presumably no actual republicans are reading this (or else they'll steal my idea), but if they reverted to small government, and civil liberties, they would get away with their views on many social issues simply because it would amount to placating to people's selfishness --at least that's my opinion.
    thats all a little abtuse for BARYE, DL, so I'm not entirely certain that I understand where you're going with this --

    But if I'm to interpret what you're saying through my own prism, the core problem for the contemporary GOP is the way they allowed their libertarian roots to be hijacked by the religious and evangelical fanatics.

    There is and always has been an internal intellectual contradiction between a party that ostensibly stands for a small government role in private lives --- but which in practice advocates massive intervention in areas involving private sexuality and what a woman can be allowed to do to her own body (to name just the 2 most blatant.)

    The evangelicals were grafted onto the GOP in a marriage of cynical convenience -- not organically. They have grown to overtake and consume their host -- like that monster from Alien.

    I think (and hope) that the GOP must separate itself from this religiously extremist element in order to reassert its historic role.

    This would be healthier for both the GOP and the country -- as it would be for the evangelicals themselves, who have become corrupted by the very processes that they've attempted to manipulate.
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/14/2008 at 10:19 AM.
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  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Well it could also be a watershed moment for the party. But you're right...the religious right will have a lot to say about him becoming the RNC Chairman.

    I am pulling for him myself. I want to see a viable Republican party as it is critical to our democracy that we have more than one party. Steele could really be a dynamic and game changing player if he gets the nod. His nomination will also test the radical right and shine a light on their bigotry...or their tolerance for other races. If it is the later, the Dems may only have 2 or 4 years (instead of 8) to rule before the GOP regains some power.
    Apropos of Steele -- the Politico article below says he is being seriously considered for RNC chairman:


    Gingrich says GOP is outmatched
    By Roger Simon Politico.com
    November 13, 2008

    How bad off is the Republican Party right now? Ask Newt Gingrich.

    ...“It is pretty hard to say our losses were because of John McCain’s campaign. McCain performed way above plausibility compared to where the Republican president was in the polls. We have to look honestly at what went wrong.”...

    Gingrich said that the best thing the Republican Party could do right now is stop worrying about the Republican Party. “We need to worry about the nation,” Gingrich said. “Wal-Mart doesn’t get ahead by attacking Sears but by offering better value.”...

    Greg Mueller, a political consultant who specializes in conservative candidates, said that the next chairman of the party must be an “ideological conservative.”

    “We need full-throttle conservatism,” Mueller said. “We have governed as lighter versions of liberal Democrats. We went to Washington to be fiscal conservatives and we became profligate spenders and big-government bureaucrats.”

    Mueller went on: “It is very unpopular to be a Republican right now, but it is very popular to be a conservative. The conservative brand is the most popular brand in the country, but we didn’t run as conservatives.”

    As to who, if anybody, will replace the current Republican National Committee chair Mike Duncan, Republicans are split, though Michael Steele is being mentioned a great deal.

    Steele, an African-American, is a former lieutenant governor of Maryland and currently the chairman of GOPAC, which trains Republican candidates (and was once chaired by Gingrich)...

    “Steele would be excellent,” said Duf Sundheim, former chair of the California Republican Party. “I am hearing Michael is definitely interested and that Newt is not going to run.”...

    Sundheim said of Michael Steele: “He understands where the party needs to go, he has got a strong set of principles, he is well able to articulate a message in all the media forms, and can take that message to the growing areas of the country — youth and minorities — and he does very well with women. He is the future of the party.”...



    (BTW DL -- I looked forward to your participation in this discussion. I hope you were not offended by my use of the word abstruse -- it was not intended as a perjorative. I only wanted you to say more ...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/14/2008 at 04:49 AM.
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  18.    #18  
    Steele on Fox formally announced his ambition to get that job: RNC chairman...

    Michael Steele to Run For RNC Chair
    by Chris Cillizza washingtonpost.com

    Former Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael Steele has decided to run for the chairmanship of the Republican National Committee, a move sure to shake up the evolving race for control of a party demoralized by broad losses at the ballot box earlier this month.

    Steele confirmed his candidacy in an interview today with The Fix and announced it formally during an interview on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes" show this evening.

    "After two devastating election cycles, the party has reached a crossroads," said Steele comparing the Republican party to someone who has "hunkered down" in a corner with no idea what to do next. "I think I may have some keys to open the door, some juice to turn on the lights," Steele explained...

    For his part, Steele rejected the idea that the color of his skin had anything to do with his chances at becoming RNC chair. "I am a Republican who happens to be African American," he said...

    ...Steele also made clear that in the current debate over whether the party should move to the middle or reaffirm its conservatives roots he falls clearly in the latter category.

    "The core values of our party should not change," Steele said. "We are the conservative voice in America.
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  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Steele on Fox formally announced his ambition to get that job: RNC chairman...

    Michael Steele to Run For RNC Chair
    by Chris Cillizza washingtonpost.com

    Former Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael Steele has decided to run for the chairmanship of the Republican National Committee, a move sure to shake up the evolving race for control of a party demoralized by broad losses at the ballot box earlier this month.

    Steele confirmed his candidacy in an interview today with The Fix and announced it formally during an interview on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes" show this evening.

    "After two devastating election cycles, the party has reached a crossroads," said Steele comparing the Republican party to someone who has "hunkered down" in a corner with no idea what to do next. "I think I may have some keys to open the door, some juice to turn on the lights," Steele explained...

    For his part, Steele rejected the idea that the color of his skin had anything to do with his chances at becoming RNC chair. "I am a Republican who happens to be African American," he said...

    ...Steele also made clear that in the current debate over whether the party should move to the middle or reaffirm its conservatives roots he falls clearly in the latter category.

    "The core values of our party should not change," Steele said. "We are the conservative voice in America.
    Well I'm not sure what else he could say on Fox. He certainly couldn't go on that network and boast of his plans to detach the moderates from the psychotic right-wing that Fox feeds off of to thrive. But if he is referring to the same ole' "moral majority" and social conservatism bull$hit then it will remain a party that I want no part of.

    In any event, I think he'll be the guy. He seems to be the most qualified candidate by far. If he doesn't get it, lets see if the "liberal" media - or Fox - covers the apparent racial biases that exists within that party.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Well I'm not sure what else he could say on Fox. He certainly couldn't go on that network and boast of his plans to detach the moderates from the psychotic right-wing that Fox feeds off of to thrive. But if he is referring to the same ole' "moral majority" and social conservatism bull$hit then it will remain a party that I want no part of.
    Well, I'm hoping he's referring to being the conservative economic voice. I agree totally about the need to uncouple from the social issues.
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