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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    People have believed it was not possible and based on what?
    four hundred years of official sanctioned oppression, including oppression written into the US Constitution, and very current surveys on racial attitudes showing a significant number of white voters will still be influenced negatively by race.

    On these very forums people posted youtube videos that were clearly racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    In fact, to the contrary, many would have been very willing to cast a vote where Powell or Rice were on the ticket and Alan Keys made POTUS attempts as far back as 1996.
    yes but a good number of people would have voted against Powell or Rice soley or partially on race. By your rational the Blacks elected during reconstruction proved prejudice ended in the 1870's? Interesting.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    four hundred years of official sanctioned oppression, including oppression written into the US Constitution, and very current surveys on racial attitudes showing a significant number of white voters will still be influenced negatively by race.

    On these very forums people posted youtube videos that were clearly racist.


    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    four hundred years of official sanctioned oppression, including oppression written into the US Constitution, and very current surveys on racial attitudes showing a significant number of white voters will still be influenced negatively by race.

    On these very forums people posted youtube videos that were clearly racist.



    yes but a good number of people would have voted against Powell or Rice soley or partially on race. By your rational the Blacks elected during reconstruction proved prejudice ended in the 1870's? Interesting.
    No, by my rational only a complete fool (be they black or white) would have believed that it took until 2008 for a black man to be voted POTUS. By my rational, people willfully chose to believe less of themselves (as evidence has shown otherwise).


    Face it, for those just waking up to the fact that a black man can be POTUS, this is not a good thing.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    At this point, I would charge that little--if anything--has changed over the last year or two regarding race in America.

    Call it a bonus, or a historical moment if you want . . . I sure as heck won't.
    I agree that little has changed over the past year or two. This election shows, at least to me, two things:
    - That amazing progress has been made over the course of the past two decades, not two years. Whether Obama's election would have been possible earlier is irrelevant to me: the fact that it has occurred is proof that it's possible. It's a tremendous symboic victory, particular to minority children and young adults.
    - While racism is alive and well in America, this election is a tangible demonstration that, especially among younger citizens, race is much less of a factor in their decision-making. This says to me that we'll be seeing even further progress over the next two decades.

    You can feel that it's not a historic moment if you wish. That's your right. I would argue that, despite your opinion, there are MANY who thought (as recently as two years ago) that we wouldn't see a black president in our lifetimes.

    You can state that a Rice or Powell could have run for president prior to Obama. That may be true. I know, even in liberal Connecticut, a good portion of my own family would never have voted for a black candidate a decade ago. Many of them probably still didn't. This election shows that there are fewer people with those attitudes, and that is indeed historic.

    That's the beauty of America, though; you can hold any opinion you want.
    Last edited by Bujin; 11/05/2008 at 09:05 PM.
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  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    - That amazing progress has been made over the course of the past two decades, not two years. Whether Obama's election would have been possible earlier is irrelevant to me: the fact that it has occurred is proof that it's possible.
    It is possible that I am overly optimistic in a sense. I simply see it as Obama apparently didn't need, "proof" and neither would have Powell, Rice or Keys (if he could get far enough) and as such, why should others? To me, America isn't about getting proof before you make the attempt.


    - While racism is alive and well in America, this election is a tangible demonstration that, especially among younger citizens, race is much less of a factor. This says to me that we'll be seeing even further progress over the next two decades.
    Hopefully that progress will be on the side of the aisle that is often overlooked--the side that presumed it wouldn't happen, which implicates one's fellow man as a racist unjustly. The proof, has given me the power to say unjustly.

    You can feel that it's not a historic moment if you wish. That's your right. I would argue that, despite your opinion, there are MANY who thought (as recently as two years ago) that we wouldn't see a black president in our lifetimes.
    To me, that's sad. While I understand that for some it is representative of the lingering racism, to me it represents the more obscure (but possibly more powerful) racism--the kind that prevents one from even attempting a goal because they believe others will stop them or otherwise create an impasse.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Call it a bonus, or a historical moment if you want . . . I sure as heck won't.
    Then don't. You're in the minority.

    It was historical. It was incredibly moving and I am incredibly proud that America looked beyond race - despite all efforts by the right-wing to remind us all that he is black - and voted for the best man for the job. It was America in one of it's many finest hours restoring our self-image, sense of patriotism, pride, and as the world's beacon of hope in the span of a few short hours.

    It's a shame you missed it.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Then don't. You're in the minority.

    It was historical. It was incredibly moving and I am incredibly proud that America looked beyond race - despite all efforts by the right-wing to remind us all that he is black - and voted for the best man for the job. It was America in one of it's many finest hours restoring our self-image, sense of patriotism, pride, and as the world's beacon of hope in the span of a few short hours.

    It's a shame you missed it.
    What is a shame is that you can't let go of partisan politics . . . someday, maybe someday . . .
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    What is a shame is that you can't let go of partisan politics . . . someday, maybe someday . . .
    I just did yesterday with my vote for Obama.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I just did yesterday with my vote for Obama.
    Well, what the heck took you so long? About time you catch up with the rest of us!



    BTW, congrats to all Obama supporters. While he wasn't my candidate by any stretch, he won and with much to spare.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Well, what the heck took you so long? About time you catch up with the rest of us!



    BTW, congrats to all Obama supporters. While he wasn't my candidate by any stretch, he won and with much to spare.
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post




    No, by my rational only a complete fool (be they black or white) would have believed that it took until 2008 for a black man to be voted POTUS. By my rational, people willfully chose to believe less of themselves (as evidence has shown otherwise).


    Face it, for those just waking up to the fact that a black man can be POTUS, this is not a good thing.
    Your world only exists if there is no racism and only skin color.

    The ignorance of your statement(s) cannot be explained.

    Although, I don't totally discount your statement... I'm sure there were some who held themselves back with the thought they could not get ahead, but to suggest that is a main issue is rather disturbing.... shows a lack of understanding and education.

    I think you might have ben beat on these last paragraphs....
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Your world only exists if there is no racism and only skin color.

    Actually no, it may just be over your headóhopefully not as it is quite simple.

    The ignorance of your statement(s) cannot be explained.

    Let me guess . . . even though you canít explain it, you just know it isnít true huh?

    Although, I don't totally discount your statement... I'm sure there were some who held themselves back with the thought they could not get ahead, but to suggest that is a main issue is rather disturbing.... shows a lack of understanding and education.

    I suggest you pick up a copy of Losing The Race: Self Sabatoge In Black America, by John McWhorter before you bandy about the notion that I lack understanding and education. You can find a nice excerpt of the book HERE, which identifies three manifestations that are to blame: cult of victimology, separatism and anti-intellectualism.

    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post

    Actually no, it may just be over your headóhopefully not as it is quite simple.


    lol in over MY head? No, I don't think so....

    Let me guess . . . even though you canít explain it, you just know it isnít true huh?
    No, I could attempt to explain it, but after reading all your posts and going back some, I decided not to waste my time. Your posts are who you are.

    Then reading the other "gay marriage" thread, I'm glad I did not waste my time. You comments seem to suggest a warped ideology.


    I suggest you pick up a copy of Losing The Race: Self Sabatoge In Black America, by John McWhorter before you bandy about the notion that I lack understanding and education. You can find a nice excerpt of the book HERE, which identifies three manifestations that are to blame: cult of victimology, separatism and anti-intellectualism.
    Honestly, there is nothing you could offer me to read. You can keep your occult books to yourself.
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Honestly, there is nothing you could offer me to read.
    That is quite sad and unfortunately explains quite a bit. I'll dutifully remember those words for any future conversations that I may have with you.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    No, by my rational only a complete fool (be they black or white) would have believed that it took until 2008 for a black man to be voted POTUS. By my rational, people willfully chose to believe less of themselves (as evidence has shown otherwise).
    Face it, for those just waking up to the fact that a black man can be POTUS, this is not a good thing.


    Wow. Anyone who thought in 1950, or 60 or 70, or 80 or 90 that racist attitudes didn't exist would be the demonstrably "complete fool."

    you think that sociologists and historians on the left right and center are "complete fools" and that your (asserted) personal views soley reflect the country's views?
    Last edited by aero; 11/06/2008 at 04:18 PM.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post


    Wow. Anyone who thought in 1950, or 60 or 70, or 80 or 90 that racist attitudes didn't exist would be the demonstrably "complete fool."
    Who said they didn't exist? I didn't and if you think I did then your not paying attention.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    No, by my rational only a complete fool (be they black or white) would have believed that it took until 2008 for a black man to be voted POTUS. By my rational, people willfully chose to believe less of themselves (as evidence has shown otherwise).
    Maybe I'm missing some context, but it seems that such people would not be complete fools. They'd be right.

    Because it DID take until 2008 for a Black man to be voted POTUS.
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  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    ]I suggest you pick up a copy of Losing The Race: Self Sabatoge In Black America[ by John McWhorter before you bandy about the notion that I lack understanding and education. You can find a nice excerpt of the book , which identifies three manifestations that are to blame: cult of victimology, separatism and anti-intellectualism.
    This is a logically flawed defense. The presence of a feeling of victimization or separatism among people wh are victims does not mean they have created their own problem.

    Further, the exaggeration of victimization, to the point of a "cult of victimization" does not deny the actual victimization. For example McWhorters thesis has been compared to Norman Finkelstein book "The Holocaust Industry" (also on Amazon) and uses the same methodology, language and perspective.

    Your logical problem is that you, like Finkelstein and McWhoter,, are contending that the exaggeration or overuse of victimhood by some in a group means the the victim hood doesn't exist.

    This s the logical equivalent of saying that if one woman person exaggerated or falsely contended a rap, this shows that all how have claimed to have been raped are exaggerating.

    your cite is irrational and does not prove the you were attempting to make
  18. #38  
    Some strong comments in these posts. I didn't vote for the man but I'm willing to give him a chance. I'm sure all my NC relatives, dead or alive, will black list me but I think this may be good for our country.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Who said they didn't exist? I didn't and if you think I did then your not paying attention.
    As others have noted the problem is not one of us not paying attention, it that your posts are incoherent.
    You are logically saying that your own claim tht you are not racist means prejudice against African Americans is not a factor in American politics. It is a bit megalomaniac -- and doesn't demand attention so much as derision.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man View Post
    Maybe I'm missing some context, but it seems that such people would not be complete fools. They'd be right.

    Because it DID take until 2008 for a Black man to be voted POTUS.
    I may have worded this poorly, but the point is that while we didn't actually have a black man as POTUS, that is not indicative as to why. Assuming so presumes that correlation equals causation and is simply false.

    Many people are letting out a sigh of relief as if in 2004, 2000 or 1996 it was completely impossible for a black man to be POTUS based solely on race--yet, the only evidence available is that we didn't have one so therefore it must be because of race.

    This reminds me of back in 2001 when I got into an argument with a black fellow who said these words verbatim, "There is no room in the military for a black man." Yet, at the same exact time Colin Powell was serving as Secretary of the State after serving as National Security Advisor and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff while also holding the rank of General in the US Army. Call me crazy, but it seemed there was plenty of room for a black man--if he actually wanted it.

    This attitude isn't new and has existed in various forms for years now.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
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