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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I did - can you point to a quote in it that states that the VP is part of the legislative branch, or has a part in writing legislative policy? I didn't see it; only the Constitutional language that clearly says that the VP has no vote in the Senate except in the place of a tie.
    As with her Russia statement and her Bush Doctrine statement, Toby and Ben rush to defend something that can't be defended. Sad really.

    We all know Palin is not qualified to be VP.... not even VP of a local Home Depot.
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  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I did - can you point to a quote in it that states that the VP is part of the legislative branch, or has a part in writing legislative policy?
    Until the 20th century, the VP slot was largely considered a legislative position. The real backlash against its involvement in legislative matters began first with Nixon, and got most firm with Lyndon Johnson (whom Biden apparently wants to emulate).
    I didn't see it; only the Constitutional language that clearly says that the VP has no vote in the Senate except in the place of a tie.
    Just a few...
    Under the original code of Senate rules, the presiding officer exercised great power over the conduct of the body's proceedings. Rule XVI provided that "every question of order shall be decided by the President [of the Senate], without debate; but if there be a doubt in his mind, he may call for a sense of the Senate." Thus, contrary to later practice, the presiding officer was the sole judge of proper procedure and his rulings could not be turned aside by the full Senate without his assent.

    The first two vice presidents, Adams and Jefferson, did much to shape the nature of the office, setting precedents that were followed by others. During most of the nineteenth century, the degree of influence and the role played within the Senate depended chiefly on the personality and inclinations of the individual involved. Some had great parliamentary skill and presided well, while others found the task boring, were incapable of maintaining order, or chose to spend most of their time away from Washington, leaving the duty to a president pro tempore. Some made an effort to preside fairly, while others used their position to promote the political agenda of the administration.

    During the twentieth century, the role of the vice president has evolved into more of an executive branch position. Now, the vice president is usually seen as an integral part of a president's administration and presides over the Senate only on ceremonial occasions or when a tie-breaking vote may be needed. Yet, even though the nature of the job has changed, it is still greatly affected by the personality and skills of the individual incumbent.
    During his two vice-presidential terms, Adams maintained a cordial, but distant, relationship with the president, who sought his advice only occasionally. In the Senate, Adams played a more active role, particularly during his first term. On at least one occasion, he persuaded senators to vote against legislation he opposed, and he frequently lectured the body on procedural and policy matters. He supported Washington's policies by casting the twenty-nine tie-breaking votes that no successor has equalled.
    During the nineteenth century, the vice-presidency remained essentially a legislative position. Those who held it rarely attended cabinet meetings or otherwise involved themselves in executive branch business. Their usefulness to the president generally ended with the election. While those who had served in Congress might offer helpful political information and connections to a presidential candidate, or might attract electoral votes in marginal states, their status and value evaporated after inauguration day. In fact, as political circumstances altered during their first term, some presidents began considering a new running mate for the reelection campaign. Abraham Lincoln, for example, had no need of Vice President Hannibal Hamlin of Maine for a second term, since his state was certain to vote to reelect Lincoln in 1864. Success being less assured in the border state of Tennessee, party leaders chose Senator Andrew Johnson to replace Hamlin in the second position.

    Relegated to presiding over the Senate, a few nineteenth-century vice presidents took that task seriously. Men such as George Dallas, Levi Morton, and Garret Hobart studied the Senate's rules and precedents and presided most effectively. Others, such as Henry Wilson - Grant's second vice president - spent their time as they pleased. As vice president, Wilson wrote a three-volume history of slavery before dying in his Capitol office.

    The vice-presidency in the nineteenth century seldom led to the White House, because vice presidents of the era were rarely men of presidential stature. Of the twenty-one individuals who held that office from 1805 to 1899, only Martin Van Buren managed to be elected president. Four others achieved the presidency only because the incumbent died, and none of those four accidental presidents subsequently won election in his own right.
    The principal twentieth-century growth in the vice president's role occurred when the national government assumed a greater presence in American life, beginning with the New Deal era and extending through the cold war years. That era brought to the vice-presidency such major political leaders as House Speaker John "Cactus Jack" Garner and Senate Majority Leaders Alben Barkley and Lyndon Johnson. This distinguished cast of elected vice presidents also included Senators Harry Truman, Richard Nixon, Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale, and Al Gore (who is serving as vice president at this writing and is therefore not included in this book). The group also includes George Bush, whose previous experience ranged from the House of Representatives to the Central Intelligence Agency. With the exception of Garner and possibly Truman, these men were selected not by party wheelhorses but by the presidential candidates themselves. Competence and compatibility became the most sought-after qualities in a running mate. These characteristics were especially evident in the Truman-Barkley and Clinton-Gore tickets, both of which set aside the traditional selection considerations of geographical and ideological balance.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    As with her Russia statement and her Bush Doctrine statement, Toby and Ben rush to defend something that can't be defended. Sad really.
    No, what's sad is that you can't admit that even a blind squirrel can find a nut sometimes. What's sad is that Palin seems to understand (or at least have someone be able to tell her) more about the history of the position than her critics. What's sad is that you can't find the legitimate criticisms of her positions and competency, and have to resort to talking about the moon. And what's really the saddest is that you think I'm defending her.
    We all know Palin is not qualified to be VP.... not even VP of a local Home Depot.
    Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #64  
    Theog, there is no formal Bush Doctrine. What you are calling the Bush Doctrine is not from the Bush administration and has not been refereed to by the Bush administration. You are playing only with words, words that have no meaning.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Theog, there is no formal Bush Doctrine. What you are calling the Bush Doctrine is not from the Bush administration and has not been refereed to by the Bush administration. You are playing only with words, words that have no meaning.
    There is a reason no other person would dare to say the Bush Doctrine does not exist... why? Because it sounds ignorant to say that.

    Just like I said, you did not know it existed, and she did not know it existed... but the rest of the country either know about it or heard about... many of us know the pillars of the doctrine.... guess the Clinton Doctrine did not exist either.

    She has no clue and neither do you... neither one of you have the experience or background to be VP. Period.
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  6. #66  
    well we all by now have probably heard about her GOPer purchased $150,000 clothes -- or as others have described it: her wardrobe malfunction.

    Lest we think that McShame and his campaign have been wasting the millions of public financing they've received, reassuringly comes word that the highest paid person working for his campaign was Guv. Palin's makeup "artist".

    I did not make this stuff up.


    October 24, 2008,
    Palin’s Makeup Stylist Fetches Highest Salary in 2-Week Period
    By Michael Luo NYTimes

    Who was the highest paid individual in Senator John McCain’s presidential campaign during the first half of October as it headed down the homestretch?

    Not Randy Scheunemann, Mr. McCain’s chief foreign policy adviser; not Nicolle Wallace, his senior communications staffer. It was Amy Strozzi, who was identified by the Washington Post this week as Gov. Sarah Palin’s traveling makeup artist, according to a new filing with the Federal Election Commission on Thursday night.

    Ms. Strozzi, who was nominated for an Emmy award for her makeup work on the television show “So You Think You Can Dance?”, was paid $22,800 for the first two weeks of October alone, according to the records. The campaign categorized Ms. Strozzi’s payment as “Personnel Svc/Equipment.”

    In addition, Angela Lew, who is Ms. Palin’s traveling hair stylist, got $10,000 for “Communications Consulting” in the first half of October. Ms. Lew’s address listed in F.E.C. records traces to an Angela M. Lew in Thousands Oaks, Calif., which matches with a license issued by the California Board of Barbering and Cosmetology. The board said Ms. Lew works at a salon called Hair Grove in Westlake Village, Calif.

    W Magazine’s blog reported earlier this month that “the Guv has been traveling with a hairstylist named Angela, who usually works out of a salon called the Hair Grove,” and that she was directed to the salon by none other than Cindy McCain, whose own hair stylist, Piper, works at the Hair Grove as well.

    The campaign’s payment on Oct. 10 to Ms. Strozzi made her the single highest-paid individual in the campaign for that two week period...


    There has been much attention this week, of course, on the $150,000 Republican National Committee spent outfitting Ms. Palin in September at high-end department stores like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus, as well as for makeup services...
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  7. #67  
    Good information, thank you. Now how about presenting the details for the others?

    http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.c...951698E58C3663

    http://soulfulbeauty.com/article.php?n=175

    There is so much out about this stuff, happy reading.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Good information, thank you. Now how about presenting the details for the others?

    http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.c...951698E58C3663

    http://soulfulbeauty.com/article.php?n=175

    There is so much out about this stuff, happy reading.
    That's great stuff....I'm not certain what it does, except draw a contrast between Hillary's do ($300), Barak's ($19), McCain's ($18), and Palin ($10,000 + makeup at $22,800 for two weeks).

    Personally, I feel that the RNC can spend it's money however it wants, and this is just a distraction, but from a strategy point of view, it undercuts SP's "girl next door" image. I'm not sure why the RNC felt such a need - she didn't look as though she dressed horribly in videos from Alaska.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    That's great stuff....I'm not certain what it does, except draw a contrast between Hillary's do ($300), Barak's ($19), McCain's ($18), and Palin ($10,000 + makeup at $22,800 for two weeks).

    Personally, I feel that the RNC can spend it's money however it wants, and this is just a distraction, but from a strategy point of view, it undercuts SP's "girl next door" image. I'm not sure why the RNC felt such a need - she didn't look as though she dressed horribly in videos from Alaska.

    for the record, I believe those are two seperate charges.

    The make up cost $22,000+, and her hair cost $10,000 --

    so just over $32,000, plus $150K for the clothes.

    But that's what it takes to make a beauty pageant queen, I tells ya !!!
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/26/2008 at 08:57 AM.
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  10. #70  
    Anyone look in to what Hillary was costing in clothes/pants suits? To think the press has any interest in this topic range shows where their values are. They really should be looking at the candidates and the issues.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Anyone look in to what Hillary was costing in clothes/pants suits? To think the press has any interest in this topic range shows where their values are. They really should be looking at the candidates and the issues.
    Ben irrespective of the fact that its been written that Hillary paid maybe $300 for her hair -- and maybe $.99 for her pants suits -- she's (sadly) not running for President any longer.

    Why would they care about Hillary ????


    Lady Caribou though, is unknown, refuses to give much access to the press, and was entirely a mystery to the "lower 48" until a month or so ago.

    She preaches that she's just a simple small town Alaskan, with good small town morals, and good small town values.

    That she's getting $22,000 in face paint, $10,000 in hair styin', and $150,000 in fancy clothes --- this somehow seems germane in learning more about who she really is.
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  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    for the record, I believe those are two seperate charges.

    The make up cost $22,000+, and her hair cost $10,000 --

    so just over $32,000, plus $150K for the clothes.
    Maybe Mr. Palin, the hubby, works for a liberal and ain't makin enough money to support the wifes fashion needs......

    I swear, what's next, talking about how many times she uses a publically supported toilet?

    That might be an interesting subject.

  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by treotraveler View Post
    Maybe Mr. Palin, the hubby, works for a liberal and ain't makin enough money to support the wifes fashion needs......

    I swear, what's next, talking about how many times she uses a publically supported toilet?

    That might be an interesting subject.

    What do you know ??? -- What secret are you privy to ??

    Have they already provided her and the First Dude a solid gold "Throne" ??
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/25/2008 at 10:25 AM.
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  14.    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by treotraveler View Post
    I swear, what's next, talking about how many times she uses a publically supported toilet?

    That might be an interesting subject.

    Agreed. Let's get back to lying about Obama. We shouldn't be talking about a campaign that virtually went bankrupt until McShame's sugar-mama bailed him out. We ought not discuss McSame's flailing attempts at presenting an economic policy that differs from Bush's failed economic policy, yet, still looks like Bush's economic policies. Don't even dare to discuss the hypocrisy of spending full retail on a whole new wardrobe for the Palin's without even a hint of fiscal restraint in very tough economic times.

    Yes, look the other way. The emperor once again has no clothes...well except for the $150k closet full of clothes their Barbie-muppet needed to pretty up her many many many intellectual shortcomings.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Anyone look in to what Hillary was costing in clothes/pants suits? To think the press has any interest in this topic range shows where their values are. They really should be looking at the candidates and the issues.
    I agree - we must immediately get back to whether the driver who killed Biden's wife was drunk or not.

    Seriously, I agree we should talk about issues. For example, Sarah Palin gave her first policy address this week, in an effort to fight the perception that she's a lightweight. In it, she talks about funding for children with special needs - and mocked research regarding fruit flies as an example of moneys not spent for the public good. In reality, fruit flies are an industry standard for genetic studies, and have shown benefits in our understanding of the genetic causes of autism.

    Sarah Palin may be an engaging presence, and is likely (all issues of ethics investigations aside) a capable govervor. However, her understanding of issues on the national stage continues to be.... unimpressive.
    Last edited by Bujin; 10/25/2008 at 10:20 AM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  16. #76  
    I think we are seeing forum burnout. ROFL

    Everyone can't wait for the 4th to get here.... LOL

    Personally, I'd like us to talk more about the Keating 5, mccain's temper/poor judgment, and the way he cheated on his wife when she was ill. McCain was 40 something and Cindy 20 something... and these are the two people we want running the country. They are not decent people.

    ROFL
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  17. #77  
    The AP has investigated that pipeline Palin is so proud of boasting about, and they find that there's much about it that smells.

    In essence what the AP found was that she constructed a bidding process that in effect funneled the project to the same company that attempted to get it in 2004 -- except that she also gave them a $500 million dollar subsidy -- something they did not ask for in 2004 (when energy prices were far lower).


    AP INVESTIGATION: Palin pipeline terms curbed bids

    By JUSTIN PRITCHARD and GARANCE BURKE, Associated Press

    ANCHORAGE, Alaska – Gov. Sarah Palin's signature accomplishment — a contract to build a 1,715-mile pipeline to bring natural gas from Alaska to the Lower 48 — emerged from a flawed bidding process that narrowed the field to a company with ties to her administration, an Associated Press investigation shows.

    Beginning at the Republican National Convention in August, the McCain-Palin ticket has touted the pipeline as an example of how it would help America achieve energy independence...

    Despite Palin's boast of a smart and fair bidding process, the AP found that her team crafted terms that favored only a few independent pipeline companies and ultimately benefited the winner, TransCanada Corp.

    And contrary to the ballyhoo, there's no guarantee the pipeline will ever be built; at a minimum, any project is years away, as TransCanada must first overcome major financial and regulatory hurdles...

    Despite promises and legal guidance not to talk directly with potential bidders, Palin had meetings or phone calls with nearly every major candidate, including TransCanada.

    The leader of Palin's pipeline team had been a partner at a lobbying firm where she worked on behalf of a TransCanada subsidiary. Also, that woman's former business partner at the lobbying firm was TransCanada's lead private lobbyist on the pipeline deal, interacting with legislators in the weeks before the vote to grant TransCanada the contract. Plus, a former TransCanada executive served as an outside consultant to Palin's pipeline team.

    Under a different set of rules four years earlier, TransCanada had offered to build the pipeline without a state subsidy; under Palin, the company could receive a maximum $500 million.

    "Governor Palin held firmly to her fundamental belief that Alaska could best serve Alaskans and the nation's interests by pursuing a competitive approach to building a natural gas pipeline," said McCain-Palin spokesman Taylor Griffin. "There was an open and transparent process that subjected the decision to extensive public scrutiny and due diligence."...

    Palin's team was led by Marty Rutherford...What the Palin administration didn't tell legislators — and neglected to mention in its announcement of Rutherford's appointment — was that in 2003, Rutherford left public service and worked for 10 months at the Anchorage-based Jade North lobbying firm. There she did $40,200 worth of work for Foothills Pipe Lines Alaska, Inc., a subsidiary of TransCanada...

    ...Rutherford wouldn't have passed her new boss' own standards: Under ethics reforms the governor pushed through, Rutherford would have had to wait a year to jump from government service to a lobbying firm...

    "I'm not saying someone's getting paid off for a sweetheart contract, but it's very hard to ignore that this is your former partner and your former client standing there before you," said Republican Sen. Lyda Green, a Palin critic who in August was among the handful of lawmakers who voted against awarding TransCanada the license. "Every time it was mentioned to the governor or to the commission, it was like, 'How could you question such a wonderful person?'" ...

    TransCanada also had a connection to the team hired by the Palin administration to analyze the bid...

    Once the state issued its request for proposals on July 2, 2007, the level of communication between the government and potential bidders was supposed to decrease drastically, so that no one would be accused of gaining unfair advantage. State lawyers advised public officials to keep their distance, and bidders were told to submit questions on a Web site where answers could be seen by all.

    Several of the state's gas line team members interviewed by AP said they had no contact with possible bidders. But Palin had conversations with executives at most of the major potential bidders during that period, according to her calendars...

    By the Nov. 30 submission deadline, there were five applications. But the state disqualified four for failing to satisfy the bill's requirements.

    That left TransCanada.

    The Canadian giant had been pursuing an Alaska pipeline since at least 2004, when the company negotiated a deal with Rutherford that the state ended up shelving. While the details remain confidential, six people familiar with the terms told the AP that TransCanada was willing to do the work then without the large state subsidy...

    Others who reviewed the deal think much of the $500 million will be wasted money.

    "Most definitely TransCanada got a sweetheart deal this time," said Republican Sen. Bert Stedman, who voted against the TransCanada license. "Where else could you get a $500 million reimbursement when you don't even have the financing to build the pipeline?
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  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    for the record, I believe those are two seperate charges.

    The make up cost $22,000+, and her hair cost $10,000 --

    so just over $32,000, plus $150K for the clothes.

    But that's what it take to make a beauty pageant queen, I tells ya !!!

    I want to apologize.

    I reported these numbers with every intention of being factual.


    The actual numbers as reported in today's Washington Post are:


    "...One of those salaries garnered media attention yesterday -- $36,000 in payments the RNC made to makeup artist Amy Strozzi, and about $19,000 it paid hair stylist Angela Lew.


    I sincerely regret my errors...
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  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Yes, look the other way. The emperor once again has no clothes...well except for the $150k closet full of clothes their Barbie-muppet needed to pretty up her many many many intellectual shortcomings.
    I think you're getting a little caught up in the somewhat sexist politics of the situation (at least with the 'Barbie-muppet' comment). Her shortcomings are not intellectual, IMO. They are philosophical. She seems to me at least as bright and savvy as the average politician (not that that's saying much). The problem lies with base philosophy. Don't get distracted by the 'celebrity' diversions (the Obama/Biden - McCain/Palin teams seem to be tailor-made for cancellation in this regard).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20. #80  
    .99 for the pants suits? I looked long and hard, none found. Please point the way for my wife to invest in some.

    You state she does not give interviews? You are confused there. Listen to talk radio and any outlet that is willing to let her speak.

    The clothing is being given to charity after the election - that was stated by her during a Sean Hannity interview. Do you know why Obama refuses to be interviewed by Sean Hannity?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Ben irrespective of the fact that its been written that Hillary paid maybe $300 for her hair -- and maybe $.99 for her pants suits -- she's (sadly) not running for President any longer.

    Why would they care about Hillary ????


    Lady Caribou though, is unknown, refuses to give much access to the press, and was entirely a mystery to the "lower 48" until a month or so ago.

    She preaches that she's just a simple small town Alaskan, with good small town morals, and good small town values.

    That she's getting $22,000 in face paint, $10,000 in hair styin', and $150,000 in fancy clothes --- this somehow seems germane in learning more about who she really is.
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