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  1.    #1  
    Since the guilt by association hand has been dealt, I think it is only fair that we explore McSame's questionable judgment and associations throughout his career. But lets start with G. Gordon Liddy - a personal friend of McSame who had John on his show recently. This is really good viewing - I hope you take the time to watch.



    Now who is G. Gordon Liddy - well here are some excerpts from an interesting article that demonstrates that not only is Liddy a terrorist and former Nazi but that McSame is far far closer to Liddy than Obama has ever been to Ayers.

    "...Liddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role in the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in "if necessary"; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a "gangland figure" to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap "leftist guerillas" at the 1972 Republican National Convention -- a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton.

    Liddy has donated $5,000 to McCain's campaigns since 1998, including $1,000 in February 2008. In addition, McCain has appeared on Liddy's radio show during the presidential campaign, including as recently as May. An online video labeled "John McCain On The G. Gordon Liddy Show 11/8/07" includes a discussion between Liddy and McCain, whom Liddy described as an "old friend." During the segment, McCain praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great," said he was "proud" of Liddy, and said that "it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program."

    http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200810040004


    It seems that John McCain has a very long friendship with Liddy and believes that Liddy is a pretty upstanding American. Truly flaberghasting in light of McSame's criticisms that Obama "pals around with terrorists" - a charge equally as out of touch as McSame's economic policies.


    Next topic - McSame and his other dear family friend, the Keatings.
  2.    #2  
    Oh John...you've fallen so very far. This was written back in 1989 so it really does take you back. I think I'm getting a choked up remember how honorably John handled the Keating Five. As Ben would say, "what a guy".


    McCain: The Most Reprehensible of the Keating Five



    The story of "the Keating Five" has become a scandal rivaling Teapot Dome and Watergate

    By Tom Fitzpatrick

    published: November 29, 1989

    You're John McCain, a fallen hero who wanted to become president so desperately that you sold yourself to Charlie Keating, the wealthy con man who bears such an incredible resemblance to The Joker.

    John Mc John McCain, Keating Five
    Obviously, Keating thought you could make it to the White House, too.

    He poured $112,000 into your political campaigns. He became your friend. He threw fund raisers in your honor. He even made a sweet shopping-center investment deal for your wife, Cindy. Your father-in-law, Jim Hensley, was cut in on the deal, too. Nothing was too good for you. Why not? Keating saw you as a prime investment that would pay off in the future.


    So he flew you and your family around the country in his private jets. Time after time, he put you up for serene, private vacations at his vast, palatial spa in the Bahamas. All of this was so grand. You were protected from what Thomas Hardy refers to as "the madding crowd." It was almost as though you were already staying at a presidential retreat.


    Like the old song, that now seems "Long ago and far away."


    Since Keating's collapse, you find yourself doing obscene things to save yourself from the Senate Ethics Committee's investigation. As a matter of course, you engage in backbiting behavior that will turn you into an outcast in the Senate if you do survive.


    They say that if you put five lobsters into a pot and give them a chance to escape, none will be able to do so before you light the fire. Each time a lobster tries to climb over the top, his fellow lobsters will pull him back down. It is the way of lobsters and threatened United States senators.


    And, of course, that's the way it is with the Keating Five. You are all battling to save your own hides. So you, McCain, leak to reporters about who did Keating's bidding in pressuring federal regulators to change the rules for Lincoln Savings and Loan.


    When the reporters fail to print your tips quickly enough--as in the case of your tip on Michigan Senator Donald Riegle--you call them back and remind them how important it is to get that information in the newspapers.


    The story of "the Keating Five" has become a scandal rivaling Teapot Dome and Watergate. The outcome will be decided, not in a courtroom, but probably on national television.


    Those who survive will be the sociopaths who can tell a lie with the most sincere, straight face. You are especially adept at this.


    Last Friday night, on The John McLaughlin Show, which features well-known Washington journalists, the subject of the Keating Five was discussed. Panelist Jack Germond suggested that three of the Keating Five were probably already through in politics.


    So you spend your days desperately trying to make sure you will be one of the survivors. You keep volunteering to go on radio and television stations to protest your innocence. Last week you made ABC's Nightline.


    Not long before that you somehow managed to get James Kilpatrick, the national columnist, to write a favorable paragraph about you. Last Sunday morning, you made it to national television again; this time on ABC's This Week With David Brinkley. You smiled at the panel with your usual studied insouciance. Sitting next to you was Senator John Glenn of Ohio.


    Brinkley, Sam Donaldson, and George Will were the interrogators.
    It was a sobering scene. There you sat with Glenn, both sweating before the cameras, waiting to answer questions: two badly tarnished American icons.


    No one forgets that Glenn was the first American astronaut to orbit the Earth. You won't let anyone forget that you were a prisoner of war. But you have played that tune too long. By now your constant reminders about your war record make you seem like a modern version of Arthur Miller's tragic failure Willy Loman.


    Clearly, both you and Glenn sold your fame for Charles Keating's money.
    It was a Faustian bargain. It was also a bad joke on the rest of us and a disaster for many old people who lost their life's savings to Keating.


    The money was never really Keating's to give. But he never would have got his hands on it if you and the rest of the Keating Five didn't halt the government takeover for two long years while Keating's people continued their looting.
    And now, the tab for the Savings and Loan heist must be paid from taxpayer pockets.


    On Sunday, Senators Dennis DeConcini, Alan Cranston, and Riegle refused offers to appear on the Brinkley show. What must we make of that?


    You, the closest of them to Keating and the deepest in his debt, have chosen the path of the hard sell. You may even make it out of the pot, but to many, your protestations of innocence taste like gall.


    You are determined to bluff your way. You will stick to your story that you were acting to help a constituent and intended to do nothing improper. The very fact you attended the meeting makes you guilty, just as every man who entered the Brinks vault went to prison.


    You insist that an accounting firm Keating hired told you Lincoln was sound. Alan Greenspan, who Keating also hired, wrote a report saying it was sound. Why shouldn't you believe the people Keating hired? You were, after all, fellow employees.


    Perhaps you might silence your own conscience about all this someday.
    Just keep telling everyone that it was your wife's money invested in that shopping center with Keating and that you knew nothing about it.


    Keep saying that cynical newspaper people don't understand that every move you make has always been for the enrichment of Arizona . . . the education of our Native Americans on the reservations . . . for the love of the elderly in Sun City and Green Valley.


    Keep telling them that it wasn't that you were bought off but that Charlie Keating got special help only because he was one of the biggest employers in the state.


    Just keep sitting there and staring into the camera and denying that Keating bought you for money and jet plane trips and vacations.


    So what if he gave you $112,000? Just keep smiling at the cameras and saying you did nothing wrong. Maybe the voters will understand you took those tiring trips to Charlie's place in the Bahamas in their behalf. Certainly, they can understand you wanted to take your family along. A senator deserves to travel on private jets, removed from the awful crush of public transportation.


    You sought out a master criminal like Keating and became his friend. Now you've discarded him. It shouldn't be surprising that you are now in the process of selling out your senatorial accomplices.


    You're John McCain, clearly the guiltiest, most culpable and reprehensible of the Keating Five. But you know the power of television and you realize this is the only way you can possibly save your political career.
  3. #3  
    That's it, you just convinced me.....

    I'm voting for McCain and NOT Osama.......

    Thank you so much for your electioneering.........

  4.    #4  
    In another of McSame's very many lapses in judgment, he sought out the endorsement of John Hagee. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...tml?view=print

    Don't know who he is? Well here are some of his greatest hits:

    Hagee on Hurricane Katrina "All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]
    Hagee on Islamic Beliefs
    Fresh Air host Terry Gross asked if Hagee believed that "all Muslims have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews," to which Hagee replied, "Well, the Quran teaches that. Yes, it teaches that very clearly." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]


    Hagee on African-Americans
    The San Antonio Express-News reported that Hagee was going to "meet with black religious leaders privately at an unspecified future date to discuss comments he made in his newsletter about a 'slave sale,' an East Side minister said Wednesday." The Express-News reported:
    "Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had announced a 'slave sale' to raise funds for high school seniors in his church bulletin, 'The Cluster.'
    "The item was introduced with the sentence 'Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone" and ended with "Make plans to come and go home with a slave." [San Antonio Express-News 3/7/96]


    Hagee on Catholicism
    "Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews." [Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee]


    Hagee on Women
    "Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist." [God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters, Sarah Posner]
    "[T]he feminist movement today is throwing off authority in rebellion against God's pattern for the family." ["Bible Positions on Political Issues," John Hagee]


    Hagee on LGBT Americans
    "The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]


    Hagee on Iran
    "The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty," Hagee wrote [in 2006] in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. "Israel and America must confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national suicide." [The Nation, 8/8/2006]



    Can America really afford another four years of George Bush? Can they really trust John McCain's judgment when he panders to radicals such as John Hagee?
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by treotraveler View Post
    That's it, you just convinced me.....

    I'm voting for McCain and NOT Osama.......

    Thank you so much for your electioneering.........

    You obviously don't hang around the OT forum much so I'll cut you some slack. If you did, you'd understand why I am doing this.
  6.    #6  
    The worm is turning for McSame. Rolling Stone just published one heck of an article about this phony. http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...maverick/print

    Make-Believe Maverick

    A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbing record of recklessness and dishonesty


    McCAIN FIRST
    This is the story of the real John McCain, the one who has been hiding in plain sight. It is the story of a man who has consistently put his own advancement above all else, a man willing to say and do anything to achieve his ultimate ambition: to become commander in chief, ascending to the one position that would finally enable him to outrank his four-star father and grandfather.
  7. #7  
    Over the last six months I've posted a lot of this stuff....

    Yea, Palin went off the deep end yesterday with the Obama association. Guess McSame figures he can't win on records or by fighting fair so he brings out lies, lies and more lies.

    It is incredible that someone currently under investigation threw the first punch. Who does Palin associate herself with? lol
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  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Over the last six months I've posted a lot of this stuff....

    Yea, Palin went off the deep end yesterday with the Obama association. Guess McSame figures he can't win on records or by fighting fair so he brings out lies, lies and more lies.

    It is incredible that someone currently under investigation threw the first punch. Who does Palin associate herself with? lol
    Sorry...wasn't trying to steal your thunder. It just seems to be the only politics some on this forum understand. It's noteworthy that none have chimed in to defend their phony maverick in his time of need.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Sorry...wasn't trying to steal your thunder. It just seems to be the only politics some on this forum understand. It's noteworthy that none have chimed in to defend their phony maverick in his time of need.
    They never do... I basically shut ben down one day. Left him inside a little sandbox in paradise, picking his nose, and wondering how to respond. I think he is still wondering how to respond since I've not heard from him.

    Don't forget to post the stuff about McSame's temper... that is a riot.

    It is insane that someone who attact obama's associations considering the associations mcsame and palin have.

    I'm not sure why you go there unless you are desperate. Not good politics.

    Even when Palin referred to obama "pals" she used terrorists, in the plural. In other words, more than one association. When confronted, the McSame campaign refused to comment.

    Bunch of losers... As Ben says, Look at their words. lol
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  10. #10  
    Theog, what did you say that "shut" me down? I had 2 work days that were 16 hours long, but other than that, still here.

    Question, will guys also post a thread on Barry Obama's Troublesome "Associations?" What you post about McCain is stuff that has all ready been acknowledge and frankly, I agree. However, do you feel the need to also share the same since of journalism with Barry Obama?

    Just to refresh your memory, Barry Obama knocked on the door of the Chicago machine. Just to refresh your memory, Barry Obama started his campaign at the home of a known terrorist and killer. Just a reminder about how Barry Obama got his home and someone by the name of Mr. Rezko. Just to refresh your memory, Barry Obama was associated with a preacher who for more than 20 years preached the hatred of the United States of America and Barry heard none of it (at first). Just to refresh your memory, Joe Biden believes that Obama is not qualified to be president, that Joe himself is qualified and should be president.

    The list continues. Just remember.

    Oh Gosh! I forgot to pluralize! Make it the home of 2 known terrorists and 1 known killer. Thank you, Theog for making me see the error of my ways.

    Now what did you say?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Since the guilt by association hand has been dealt, I think it is only fair that we explore McSame's questionable judgment and associations throughout his career. But lets start with G. Gordon Liddy - a personal friend of McSame who had John on his show recently. This is really good viewing - I hope you take the time to watch.



    Now who is G. Gordon Liddy - well here are some excerpts from an interesting article that demonstrates that not only is Liddy a terrorist and former Nazi but that McSame is far far closer to Liddy than Obama has ever been to Ayers.




    http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200810040004


    It seems that John McCain has a very long friendship with Liddy and believes that Liddy is a pretty upstanding American. Truly flaberghasting in light of McSame's criticisms that Obama "pals around with terrorists" ...
    I too love the Libby one best -- but why oh why has not the campaign done more to promote this angle ???

    The air waves Sunday were filthy with talk about Ayers and Obama -- a smear is leveled and the media just repeats it ad nauseum -- all under the pretense of being objective, of asking: "what is your response ??"

    (Ironically it reminds me of how the media re-echoed the "racist" smear about Bill Clinton last winter.)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. #12  
    I have all ready heard this. However, nothing in the interview says that he is a Nazi. Many people have listened to Hitler speak and experienced a reaction to it. However, Liddy did not know the man and Liddy did not kill any one or bomb any one or injure any one. So really, there is not any comparison other than Liddy was found guilty and served time. The unrepentant terrorist (Ayers) beat the ramp, Liddy did not.

    Would you please give me your definition of a terrorist? What act did Liddy commit that fits that term? Did he place anyone's life in jeopardy? Did he make any threats? Ayers - well, you know, he sure did.

    To close, not a very good comparison, Barye. in fact, lame.
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Theog, what did you say that "shut" me down? I had 2 work days that were 16 hours long, but other than that, still here.

    Question, will guys also post a thread on Barry Obama's Troublesome "Associations?" What you post about McCain is stuff that has all ready been acknowledge and frankly, I agree. However, do you feel the need to also share the same since of journalism with Barry Obama?

    Just to refresh your memory, Barry Obama knocked on the door of the Chicago machine. Just to refresh your memory, Barry Obama started his campaign at the home of a known terrorist and killer. Just a reminder about how Barry Obama got his home and someone by the name of Mr. Rezko. Just to refresh your memory, Barry Obama was associated with a preacher who for more than 20 years preached the hatred of the United States of America and Barry heard none of it (at first). Just to refresh your memory, Joe Biden believes that Obama is not qualified to be president, that Joe himself is qualified and should be president.

    The list continues. Just remember.

    Oh Gosh! I forgot to pluralize! Make it the home of 2 known terrorists and 1 known killer. Thank you, Theog for making me see the error of my ways.

    Now what did you say?

    This thread is about John McCain - not Barack Obama. Please refrain from using your Obama hate rhetoric to defend John McCain. It shows just how defenseless McCain really is when you do nothing but attack his opposition.

    Lord knows you've already polluted other threads with the same drivel over and over again.

    But please do feel free to defend John McCain.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I have all ready heard this. However, nothing in the interview says that he is a Nazi. Many people have listened to Hitler speak and experienced a reaction to it. However, Liddy did not know the man and Liddy did not kill any one or bomb any one or injure any one. So really, there is not any comparison other than Liddy was found guilty and served time. The unrepentant terrorist (Ayers) beat the ramp, Liddy did not.

    Would you please give me your definition of a terrorist? What act did Liddy commit that fits that term? Did he place anyone's life in jeopardy? Did he make any threats? Ayers - well, you know, he sure did.

    To close, not a very good comparison, Barye. in fact, lame.
    Liddy is at the very least, a a convicted felon and political terrorist - who was convicted of trying to undermine our Democracy to advance his ideology.

    But what do you have to say about his comments - repeated comments - about how to kill an ATF agent? You know...."shoot for the head" - what a great guy for McCain to be friends with. Or do you think that sort of thing is okay? How about the fact that he named his targets "Bill and Hillary"? Do you think this is normal and acceptable behavior?

    Then there are his many many plots. They were terrorist acts by any definition - certainly murder and kidnapping of political opponents cannot be misconstrued as anything other than terrorism. Now just because he didn't get to carry out his plots doesn't mean he is not a terrorist, does it?

    If he were a Muslim, you would not be cutting this man the same break Ben. If he were a black man that said to "shoot ATF agents in the head" you'd be acting like a raving lunatic up here about Obama and how could he "associate" with a man like that.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    -- but why oh why has not the campaign done more to promote this angle ???
    Because he tried to take the high road. Personally I want him to fight back vigorously but there is evidence that Obama's calm under pressure tactics have done well for him. Perhaps he should attack through surrogates somehow....but then again, those don't seem to get the attention of the press as much as him saying things himself. Unlike the embedded surrogates all of the networks have to represent the right-wing and present a "balanced view".
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Because he tried to take the high road. Personally I want him to fight back vigorously but there is evidence that Obama's calm under pressure tactics have done well for him. Perhaps he should attack through surrogates somehow....but then again, those don't seem to get the attention of the press as much as him saying things himself. Unlike the embedded surrogates all of the networks have to represent the right-wing and present a "balanced view".
    yes his calm "Presidential" debate performance has served him well -- and yes he should not be the voice for responding slime for slime.

    But why is not Biden or those surrogates doing anything ?? Ms. PTA makes a speech in which she makes a reference to Obama "palling around with terrorists" and suddenly its the wall to wall lead story on every shoutcast and news show...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #17  
    Take a look at this lovely link: http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election20...aspx?id=273884

    Another lovely link: http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/29/tur...kly_newsletter

    Barry Obama has been fighting via his surrogates all along.

    Political terrorist? Now that just does not fit the description at all. You need to do better than that.

    My intention is not to defend McCain. My intention is to point out to you that your hero is not the messiah. That what you point out about McCain can equally be pointed out with Obama. Take a look at Obama's association with ACORN - http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election20...aspx?id=273584. Associations with all sorts of people, well when the dude says he is going to bring us all together, even you have a problem with that.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    However, Liddy did not know the man and Liddy did not kill any one or bomb any one or injure any one. So really, there is not any comparison other than Liddy was found guilty and served time.
    WTF! Have you ever read Liddy's own autobiography? Just because he was unsuccessful in his violent plots doesn't make him non violent. Liddy planned a firebombing of the Brookings Institution. He planned to assassinate Jack Anderson and kill Howard Hunt.

    he has given instruction on how to best kill police and law enforcement personnel (recommending head shots because of bullet proof vests).

    Liddy makes Ayers look like a boy scout, moreover Liddy actively subverted the constitution from a position of power vs Ayers position of disempowerment. that is no small matter.
    Last edited by aero; 10/06/2008 at 01:40 PM.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Barry Obama was associated with a preacher who for more than 20 years preached the hatred of the United States of America and Barry heard none of it (at first).
    George Washington associated with preachers who preached hatred of the existing legal political system of their times. Lincoln associated with preachers and others who condemned and advocated violent change of political intuitions in the US as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Just to refresh your memory, Joe Biden believes that Obama is not qualified to be president, that Joe himself is qualified and should be president.
    You are using examples from when the candidates ran against each other in primaries. Bush thought McCain would not be a good president and visa versa. Bush's dad thought Reagan's economic views were "vodoo."

    If you are going to base your vote one what primary opponents said about each other then you obviously are not going to vote for McCain, right?

    Obama could drag John McCain through the mud quite easily (eg Keating five, and McCain's endless pandering and flip flops that show him to be the consummate Washington insider and tool of lobbyists). McCain's campaign, especially Palin are being run by Rove an the politics of fear and smear. [If you subscribe to Rove, you subscribe to the man who pushed the idea of McCain as unbalanced nut.] But Obama is winning so he doesn't need to tear down McCain's who is just as vulnerable to this kind of politics.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    It's noteworthy that none have chimed in to defend their phony maverick in his time of need.

    I would but two problems:

    1 - I'm not interested in putting in the time to collect various rebuttal links (face it, there's quite a bit posted)

    2 - My vote isn't so much for McCain as it is against Obama. If I were that excited about McCain, I may put forth the effort, but I'm not. He's really getting my vote as a measure to keep Obama out.


    Besides, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you one of the people who previously complained about such political discussions? I mean it's nice that you've found an avenue to do the same thing by simply stating that this is what people understand. The reality is, you simply are no better.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
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