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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    NO!
    Exactly... so why not stick to the thread... being on topic helps in discussions.

    But you want to discuss "how" someone handled something... see, you can attack that.

    You know you can't win on the subject of the thread... so you go with something in the gray... attempt to change it. I like toying with you... it is comical.

    Tell me again about Vicki? ROFL
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  2.    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post

    You aren't paying attention either. No one asked for more information or faster revelations. I simply asked for him to quit downplaying his associations.
    And I'm asking the same from McCain and are claiming he has been guilty of running from some of his associations as well - some in which are much more recent than Obama's.

    This is also my final post on the matter because frankly, nobody cares. We can both agree that both men have had associations in their life that they regret. Where we seem to agree to disagree is that you feel your guy is transparent about all of his and our guy is not about all of his. Does that sum it up?
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Where we seem to agree to disagree is that you feel your guy is transparent about all of his and our guy is not about all of his.
    That is not true....

    McCain didn’t report ties to Contra group

    As a freshman congressman in the early 1980s, John McCain did not disclose his connections to a controversial group that was implicated in a secretive plot to supply arms to Nicaraguan militia groups during the Iran-Contra affair.

    McCain did not list his service on the board of the U.S. Council for World Freedom on mandatory congressional disclosure forms asking about positions he held outside government.

    The league billed itself as a supporter of “pro-Democratic resistance movements fighting communist totalitarianism,” but it had also been branded by critics as a haven for extremists, racists and anti-Semites.
    Not the fact he was a part of the group, it is the fact he has tried to hide his involvement. ROFL.... Yea, silly of me... just like some other posts here...

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14436.html

    Big problem for McCain supporters is that Dems can go back YEARS and pull up dirt on McCain. Stuff that people have long since forgotten about.

    McCain is definitely not Mr. Clean, but yet he continues to go after obama for Ayers. It is sad and silly.
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  4.    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    That is not true....

    McCain didn’t report ties to Contra group



    Not the fact he was a part of the group, it is the fact he has tried to hide his involvement. ROFL.... Yea, silly of me... just like some other posts here...

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14436.html

    Big problem for McCain supporters is that Dems can go back YEARS and pull up dirt on McCain. Stuff that people have long since forgotten about.

    McCain is definitely not Mr. Clean, but yet he continues to go after obama for Ayers. It is sad and silly.
    I think you might have missed this part of my statement - "Where we seem to agree to disagree".

    No worries though. Basically he thinks McShame is still on the Straight Talk Express and I do not.
  5. #65  
    Fine. Now back to real issues that count - current issues in fact. What about the continued unfolding of the association between Obama and William Ayers and with Fannie Mae and Freddic Mac. Those are real issues regardless of where one stands in politics. I take it we are all aware that CNN and other outlets are now discussing these issues.

    Take a look here at some of them:
    http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/0...william-ayers/

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

    http://mikeparrish.wordpress.com/200...s-about-ayers/ - amazing how he does not then when the issue is pressed that he does.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/...iref=hpmostpop

    We realize some of this has been posted before, but it goes to show that it is now being looked at by more that just the "conservative" side.

    So again, McCain's past has been aired for years and Obama's past has been avoided for years.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Fine. Now back to real issues that count - current issues in fact. What about the continued unfolding of the association between Obama and William Ayers and with Fannie Mae and Freddic Mac. Those are real issues regardless of where one stands in politics. I take it we are all aware that CNN and other outlets are now discussing these issues.
    What a guy Ben. Your flailing protestations are growing weaker each day.

    From your own link:
    Verdict: False. There is no indication that Ayers and Obama are now “palling around,” or that they have had an ongoing relationship in the past three years. Also, there is nothing to suggest that Ayers is now involved in terrorist activity or that other Obama associates are.

    You have completely and undeniably debunked yourself tonight, more plainly than usual. Give it up aleady. Really now. Wow. Just wow.
  7. #67  
    I think we'll just let the public decide if Ayers is an important issue. Given the fact that Obama seems to have already passed the number of needed electoral votes to win, I'm guessing that only the Republican base will consider it an issue. By the way, if you read the CNN article you posted:

    A CNN review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the volunteer projects in which the two men were involved. Read CNN's fact check on Obama's connection to Ayers

    Ayers has strong defenders in Chicago -- including Mayor Richard Daley, who called him "a valued member of the Chicago community."

    The city gave Ayers its Citizen of the Year award in 1997 for his work on the Annenberg project.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  8. #68  
    for a very long time GOPers have been able to grab something transparently irrelevant, an issue -- Willie Horton most famously, for example -- and leverage that issue into the message that this candidate is a LIBERAL -- a pointy headed LIBERAL intellectual.

    It would have worked this year too.

    America has not changed.

    What has changed is the depth of economic despair, malaise, and fear on the streets, supermarket lines, and bars of this country.

    Its hard to hear Palin's siren song of seduction over the siren of a sheriff's cruiser...
    Last edited by ronbo2000; 10/19/2008 at 09:23 PM.
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  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    for a very long time GOPers have been able to grab something transparently irrelevant, an issue -- Willie Horton most famously, for example -- and leverage that issue into the message that this candidate is a LIBERAL -- a pointy headed LIBERAL intellectual.
    I'm a bit fuzzy on the Willie Horton issue, but wasn't Dukakis the initiator of this by boasting about the furlough program in his state (MA)?

    And wasn't Dukakis the one who was responsible for Horton's release by modifying the furlough (which was started before him)?

    Seems very relevant to me, particularly in light of Dukakis attempting to use the furlough for boastful purposes.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    I'm a bit fuzzy on the Willie Horton issue, but wasn't Dukakis the initiator of this by boasting about the furlough program in his state (MA)?

    And wasn't Dukakis the one who was responsible for Horton's release by modifying the furlough (which was started before him)?

    Seems very relevant to me, particularly in light of Dukakis attempting to use the furlough for boastful purposes.
    The Massachusetts furlough was modeled after a nearly identical one that originated in another state -- one created by the governor of California, Ron Raygun.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    The Massachusetts furlough was modeled after a nearly identical one that originated in another state -- one created by the governor of California, Ron Raygun.
    Did that "model" include defending inmates eligability who were serving life without parole?

    "For all of that, the Dukakis administration long supported, and at times actively defended, the practice of giving furloughs to inmates serving life terms without parole. In 1976 Mr. Dukakis refused to sign legislation that would have barred such prisoners from receiving furloughs and would have required a number of other restrictions."

    Source

    Willie Horton was released in 1986.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Did that "model" include defending inmates eligability who were serving life without parole?

    "For all of that, the Dukakis administration long supported, and at times actively defended, the practice of giving furloughs to inmates serving life terms without parole. In 1976 Mr. Dukakis refused to sign legislation that would have barred such prisoners from receiving furloughs and would have required a number of other restrictions."

    Source

    Willie Horton was released in 1986.
    presumably neither of us want to use the Waybackmachine to travel to 1988 and revisit with Willie Horton.

    The specifics of his case are bad -- and Lee Atwater manipulated those specifics in a graphic and psychologiclly malevolent way that won him an election and lost him his soul.

    Something Atwater begged to get back in the months before his grotesque death from brain cancer soon thereafter -- all of which is portryed vividly in the current movie "Boogie Man" -- a great film that tells Atwater's story and the poisonous effect his legacy has had on american politics.
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  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    presumably neither of us want to use the Waybackmachine to travel to 1988 and revisit with Willie Horton.
    This is true.

    The specifics of his case are bad -- and Lee Atwater manipulated those specifics in a graphic and psychologiclly malevolent way that won him an election and lost him his soul.
    Not arguing on that point; just noting the Horton issue is different than the Ayers issue in that there was indeed an active action on part of Dukakis as opposed to Obama.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    BTW, can someone tell me when it was that Obama denounced Ayers? After his official run for President, no? Awful convenient . . .
    Has MCain denounced Liddy who is way worse than Ayers? Has McCain denounced his owe campaign manager (the lobbyist for Fannie Mae)? Has Palin denounced the separatist group her husband belonged to?

    The public is expressing their views on McCain's surrogates slinging with the Ayers thing instead of addressed the actual concerns of the American Middle Class-- they are moving towards Obama.
  15.    #75  
    BTW, can someone tell me when it was that Obama denounced Ayers? After his official run for President, no? Awful convenient . . .
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Democ...4670271&page=2
  16. #76  
    Just when I thought that McCain's campaign had gotten as ugly as it could:

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...0/1529529.aspx

    Obama criticizes McCain's campaign for being divisive, and Mac's campaign defends their shouts of "Terrorist", etc.? It's really sad to see how far Mac's gone...
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  17.    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Just when I thought that McCain's campaign had gotten as ugly as it could:

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...0/1529529.aspx

    Obama criticizes McCain's campaign for being divisive, and Mac's campaign defends their shouts of "Terrorist", etc.? It's really sad to see how far Mac's gone...
    The deck of cards continues to collapse. The real conservatives are outraged with McShame's stupid attempt at populism with his $300b bailout and many are saying he has crossed the line with the attacks.

    And today, Christopher Buckley has endorsed Obama and denounced McShame's tactics - yes, William F. Buckley's son of the National Review.

    I fear an assassination attempt will be next. The hate mongering and unfounded rage is being stoked by McShame/Palin and the more they fan the flames of their phony charges "guilt by association", traitor, socialist, etc. the more likely the party who loves guns will see one of their own gun down Obama.

    I'm embarrassed to have fought for this country right now. And ashamed that I was once a Republican and in a small way, was complicit in allowing that party to fall into such radicals hands.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I'm embarrassed to have fought for this country right now. And ashamed that I was once a Republican and in a small way, was complicit in allowing that party to fall into such radicals hands.
    Don't be so hard on yourself moderateinny. Times have changed significantly. My concerns have to do with the fact the the national discourse will only increase in magnitude in the years to come. Have you ever seen the film Idiocracy? It is scary funny, but also quite possibly prophetic on many levels.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I'm embarrassed to have fought for this country right now. And ashamed that I was once a Republican and in a small way, was complicit in allowing that party to fall into such radicals hands.
    I'm not ashamed...

    Hell, I don't like bush nor Iraq, but if Bush showed up and asked me to go fight, I'd go...
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  20. #80  
    Continue the pain, vote McCain
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