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  1. #21  
    Do you hear the passion in her voice and lack of it in his? Very monotone.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Do you hear the passion in her voice and lack of it in his? Very monotone.
    Passion? I think it is "glee" given the softball questions they are both getting - she is quite relieved. The questions aren't very tough IMO.
  3. #23  
    It was a soft-ball debate - the moderator did not cross the line at all. I believe they both did a good job. Palin spoke to the people, not the moderator and at that she was persistent.
  4.    #24  
    Well this should be interesting. Basically we have the assistant coach who proved he was capable of being the head coach and demonstrated his depth and experience - but he is old and has hair plugs. And we had the good looking cheerleader who knew all the cheers and waved the pom poms and sang the fight songs...but still cannot be head coach.
  5. #25  
    And how do you base the 2nd part of your statement? I agree on the first most definitely.
  6. #26  
    Are you saying that Biden is not a good looking cheer leader?
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    And how do you base the 2nd part of your statement? I agree on the first most definitely.
    She offered very little substance - fight songs and cheers that were drummed into her head the last few days in Arizona.

    That said, she did what she had to do to improve moral amongst Republicans. Her base is re-energized and the polls will get a little tighter. Whether it was enough to restore the momentum they enjoyed after the convention is another matter though. She didn't do enough to recapture all of the independents that she has lost these last fews weeks.
  8. #28  
    Ok then. I do not think the debate will matter in the long run. Both did good, one spoke to the people and one spoke to the moderator and the people. One let out a huge sigh, the other did not. One moved back to further a point (not good) and the other did so also (equally not as good). Both complimented each other and neither stepped on the other's toes. Palin messed up on the general's name and Biden either ignored or did not pick up on it, or did not know himself.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Ok then. I do not think the debate will matter in the long run.
    You're being entirely too reasonable tonight Ben and I don't like it one bit.

    (I agree with your statement above)
  10. #30  
    My concerns with the discussion before it began: treatment of the principals by the moderator. The showing of favoritism is rampant by the press during interviews and in her situation, she would have been made a fool had she played real politics. She did not and that was good. Her mannerisms, what and how she said it, et cetera, were fine. We knew her position before hand, but did not let it interfere with the debate.

    We know that both are accomplished debaters and that was shown. They both have their strong and weak points. Biden probably more strong points, but really, his weaknesses haunt him. His statements, especially those that fall in the off-the-cuff arena are well known. We know that he has more "legislative" experience and no administrative experience. We know that she has more administrative experiences. Weakness and strengths are with both of them.

    The fact that they both maintained control, made their points and ultimately looked good to the public is to their benefit. They both made errors in their statements, they both exaggerated a bit, but most of the points were factual. Palin did not lie when she spoke of Biden's previous statements and Biden did not lie when he spoke of McCain's legislative history, though he did not mention anything about McCain's history of anti-pork, the reason why he voted against a number of those issues he was hit against.
  11. #31  
    It's hard to believe that was the same person as in the Couric interview. I was expecting McCain's campaign to die tonight. She actually seemed knowledgeable about many key issues, and dodged the stuff she didn't know like a polished politician. She did babble on a bit about global warming, and I hate that she can't pronounce nuclear or Iraq. And I don't know what she was thinking aligning herself with **** Cheney and talking about expanding the powers of the Vice President. But overall, she did well enough to revive her poll numbers.

    Though Biden did better in the debate, I think the McCain ticket won in a big way only because she far exceeded expectations. And I'm pretty sure the calls for McCain to replace her will fade away.
  12. #32  
    Different moderator, different circumstances. After passing Couric, she knew what the game was about. Couric has an agenda to build, Gwen Iffil a reputation to protect as well as sell her book.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    It's hard to believe that was the same person as in the Couric interview. I was expecting McCain's campaign to die tonight. She actually seemed knowledgeable about many key issues, and dodged the stuff she didn't know like a polished politician. She did babble on a bit about global warming, and I hate that she can't pronounce nuclear or Iraq. And I don't know what she was thinking aligning herself with **** Cheney and talking about expanding the powers of the Vice President. But overall, she did well enough to revive her poll numbers.

    Though Biden did better in the debate, I think the McCain ticket won in a big way only because she far exceeded expectations. And I'm pretty sure the calls for McCain to replace her will fade away.
    I agree with most of what you've written.

    Her first half hour though, was bad. If it had happened in isolation it would not have been so damaging -- but after the last week of her not being able to answer questions put to her, it likely reenforced a plot line she better to have been avoided.

    She was much more credible during the final 2/3 of their debate. Her smile and cheerful colloquialisms were winning and attractive.

    I heard part of that section on the radio -- and it was actually Biden's stumbles that came off badly. On watching it DVRed, it was not so bad -- but it still communicated that Biden was as nervous as Palin.

    I also wish Biden had referred much less to his own Senate record. It was as though it was he who was running for President, as though what he advocated mattered. (I understand wanting to contrast with Palin, but Biden is really nothing more than a fancy surrogate.)

    Over all I'd give her a C+, and him a B-.

    She will have little effect on the remainder of the contest.
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/03/2008 at 08:46 AM.
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  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    [...] I hate that she can't pronounce nuclear [...]
    Neither can Jimmy Carter or W.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Different moderator, different circumstances. After passing Couric, she knew what the game was about. Couric has an agenda to build, Gwen Iffil a reputation to protect as well as sell her book.
    I'm not sure that "what do you read", "what Supreme Court decisions have you disagreed with" or "what's one example of how your running mate fought for regulation" reflects an agenda. They were softballs, and she should have been able to answer them.

    She was charming and well-coached in this debate; however, she certainly didn't show a command of issues or policy. The expectations for her were so low, that subject / verb agreement constitutes success for her performance.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    It is just amazing that Biden ignores what he said before the choices were made and he came up for VP! Wow, this will be most interesting.
    Come on, that is a reach. By that standard you also believe John McCain is a raving hypocrite for supporting Bush in 2000 after Bush took the nomination
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    .
    ...Expectations are so low that she HAS to do better than those -- and I fear she will surpass them. If she can at least fake "credible" for 90 minutes then the pressure will mostly be off her for this last month...

    For the next 6+ hours (actually won't watch it live because of being in a screening) I will amuse myself daydreaming that Palin will have one of those classic beauty contestant moments in front of the entire planet.
    As I had feared, its clear that there's a consensus that she did far better than the low expectations most had about her.

    No longer will her every interview become the lead story on the evening news -- no matter what idiocy she might utter.

    Gwen Iffil's moderation was much much too easy last night. She allowed Palin to regurgitate fully precanned answers like a seagull upchucking a fish for its youngin'. She never pressed her with any follow up questions demanding specificity, or even that she reply to the question asked.

    The reason the CBS Couric interviews were so devastating was that Palin was forced in follow up questions to address what was asked originally: what specific newspapers etc, do you read ?? which specific Supreme Court decisions do you disagree with ?? etc., etc.

    Iffil never did that -- nor (understandably) did Biden.

    Because she was unpressed with follow up, her native charm, decency, and smarts were able to be expressed.

    As a result, she will mostly get a free pass for the remainder of the campaign.



    Palin beat expectations in debate
    By Andrea Hopkins Reuters

    The morning after the most anticipated vice-presidential debate in American history, U.S. voters seemed to share a common reaction: Republican Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin wasn't that bad after all.

    "Palin held her ground very well," said Cincinnati entrepreneur and Republican Bryan Welage, 42. "I know there had been some issues with whether she would be good at a debate, but I thought she did very well."

    New York tour guide and Democrat Joe Kovack, 54, agreed.

    "I thought that the debate was even, even. I was surprised that Governor Palin held her own," said Kovack as he waited for tourists in Times Square...

    But viewers almost universally said Palin held her own against Biden in Thursday's debate.

    A CNN poll of 611 adult Americans who watched the encounter found 51 percent thought Biden did the better job in the debate, while 36 percent said Palin did. But an overwhelming 84 percent said Palin did better than expected.

    TALKING POINTS

    "I didn't think there was a winner," said Cincinnati's Welage, a long-time Republican. "But Palin turned the ball very good on Biden, implying that she's one of the regular people, she and her husband have always been middle-class."

    Chris Longley, 47, of St. Paul, Minnesota, said he liked Palin's performance and is leaning toward McCain.

    "She seemed to talk directly to the people. I responded to that," Longley said. "She won on style. He won on substance."...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  18.    #38  
    How did I do?

    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    30 minutes to go and counting. Predictions:

    1. Gwyn will overcompensate in her attempt to appear neutral thanks to the last minute objection of the GOP to her book deal.
    Debatable (pun intended) but I think she may have withheld tougher questions that she had for both candidates. I have seen her on PBS before and think she is capable of being a lot tougher. But she wasn't last night - as some of us have agreed to above, she is guilty of at least tossing softballs. Whether she was "scared straight" or not remains debatable.

    2. Palin will get several very good zingers in there - in fact, if there is a one liner that resonates after this debate, I'll predict that Palin will deliver it.
    She got in several good zingers. But I was wrong that any would resonate beyond the debate IMO.

    3. Biden will surprise us all with his brevity. But he'll be caught flat footed on a few of Palin's punches.
    He was concise and did very well in this regard. I don't think he was ever caught flat footed but I suppose the "white flag of surrender" could be construed as that. I think he just stuck to his plan to behave and did not take the bait to really go after her.

    4. The media will claim there was no real winner and that Palin did what she needed to do - but stop short of declaring her the victor. Biden will be accused of not delivering the "knock out punch" for Obama.

    I soooooooooooooooooo hope I'm wrong.
    Well the media did exactly that...not rocket science, they always do. No knock out punches delivered. Blah blah blah. In the end, the polls of independents show Biden won handily. Palin exceed expectations that she'd perform as poorly as she did with Katie and Charlie. I watched the debate again this morning and struggled to find a single answer to a single question put to Palin. She stuck to her script....and because she did I think she improved her image, but failed to convert independents who didn't seem to be fooled by her rhetoric.

    Overall...I was right about a few things that weren't exactly tough calls, but mostly I was wrong......THANK GOD.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    She stuck to her script....and because she did I think she improved her image, but failed to convert independents who didn't seem to be fooled by her rhetoric.
    I think the other part is that she bought a couple more days of learning... had she fallen on her face last night, that would have been it.

    I thought she performed well, all things considered. Biden did exactly what he should have... I think Palin's crew was wanting Biden to attack her ferociously or say something stupid... but that did not happen. Of course biden's crew wanted Palin to not know something or say something wrong. That did not happen.

    Personally, I think the two "main characters" (McSame and Obamanation) can breathe easier after this debate.

    I call this debate as even, overall.
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  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post

    I call this debate as even, overall.
    We'll see it in the polls by next week. But since the next Presidential debate is on Tues, I'd guess this VP debate is history to the voters....nothing said or done to really move the needle either way.
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