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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    My support for this bill is tepid at best - I fear it will only slow the inevitable. We're probably heading into a depression and it might not be something that can be stopped. [...]
    Ironically, this sort of attitude will do far more to cause it to occur than any President (Republican or Democrat) can do. The economy is a confidence game, pure and simple. One of the juniors out in the tech room the other day was saying that he heard that Wiis were going to be hard to come by for the holidays, so his plan was to buy up every one he could find to sell on eBay for a profit. If a significant enough group of people buy into the same meme, Wiis _will_ be hard to come by. This will increase the 'exclusive' appeal of being one of the 'few' to have one, and then people will pay stupid prices on eBay to have one.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    My support for this bill is tepid at best - I fear it will only slow the inevitable. We're probably heading into a depression and it might not be something that can be stopped. That said, if we're going down we may as well go down fighting. They need to get a bill passed. I've already seen reports of some county governments may have to shut down in a few weeks if they cannot get access to credit. I don't think this plan was explained or sold very well at all. The consequences are far more reaching than Wallstreet.
    I think a lot of people are starting to realize the complexity of this issue.

    There are times when people take a relatively simple issue and make it complex.... this is definitely not one of those times.

    Reminds of of the title, "How did we get HERE?"
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  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Ironically, this sort of attitude will do far more to cause it to occur than any President (Republican or Democrat) can do. The economy is a confidence game, pure and simple. One of the juniors out in the tech room the other day was saying that he heard that Wiis were going to be hard to come by for the holidays, so his plan was to buy up every one he could find to sell on eBay for a profit. If a significant enough group of people buy into the same meme, Wiis _will_ be hard to come by. This will increase the 'exclusive' appeal of being one of the 'few' to have one, and then people will pay stupid prices on eBay to have one.
    I don't disagree about consumer confidence. Then again, consumer confidence has been artificially inflated the last few years with home equity lines and mortgages that should have never been issued. Call it what you will - I'm reminded of an excellent article sent to me by one of my more conservative (fiscally conservative) investor friends back in April 08. A good read if nothing else....and somewhat prophetic.
    Attached Files Attached Files
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I don't disagree about consumer confidence. Then again, consumer confidence has been artificially inflated the last few years with home equity lines and mortgages that should have never been issued. Call it what you will - I'm reminded of an excellent article sent to me by one of my more conservative (fiscally conservative) investor friends back in April 08. A good read if nothing else....and somewhat prophetic.
    It's a very good article and points to our current dilemma. We don't seem to have someone in the race right now that will have an honest talk with the populace. McCain wants it to look better than it is because he's running a three-legged race with the incumbent. Obama wants it to look worse than it is because it paints the opposition in a worse light which is good for his chances. Obama seems to have the closer to honest view, for whatever that's worth. The question will be how he handles it if/when the responsibility becomes his.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I think a lot of people are starting to realize the complexity of this issue.

    There are times when people take a relatively simple issue and make it complex.... this is definitely not one of those times.

    Reminds of of the title, "How did we get HERE?"
    How did we get here? Untimely tax cuts for political gain - phoney economic stimulus checks - predatory lending - an accelerated shift of wealth and shrinkage of the middle class - artificially propping up of consumer confidence with unregulated sub-prime lines of credit and mortgages - an artifical sense of wealth by consumers that held such loans and used them to replace the real money they once earned. All of these are the hallmarks of the Republican's and Bush's "mirage-like" economic policies. And now they should accept the majority of the blame for the economic crisis they played a significant role in creating.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Obama seems to have the closer to honest view, for whatever that's worth.
    In politics, its worth everything. Lesser of the evils.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    In politics, its worth everything. Lesser of the evils.
    From my perspective, that explains exactly how we got here.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    From my perspective, that explains exactly how we got here.
    Agreed...perhaps for different reasons.
  9. #69  
    and all of it unregulated by your buddy Barney Frank. Remember, he said everything was just fine.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    and all of it unregulated by your buddy Barney Frank. Remember, he said everything was just fine.
    I'm beginning to think you have a thing for Barney Frank, Ben. Have you been having naughty dreams or something about him?

    Let me see if I understand your simpleton explanation for the economic crisis:

    - The Dems are to blame
    - Barney Frank is a Dem
    - Barney Frank said everything was okay and the GOP...who controlled ALL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT FOR SIX YEARS apparently took him at his word and did NOTHING
    - Barney Frank is to blame for the economic crisis we are in.
    - Oh...and Obama has two campaign advisors that may have been affiliated with Fannie Mae....which of course, even though Obama is not even President yet...has resulted in an economic meltdown.

    Does that about sum it up? Now take a deep breath...still sound plausible to you? Of course it does.
  11. #71  
    Interestingly enough, it appears that Warren Buffett doesn't seem to have any doubts that the fundamentals of the US economy are in decent shape.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Interestingly enough, it appears that Warren Buffett doesn't seem to have any doubts that the fundamentals of the US economy are in decent shape.
    I didn't quite read it the way you did. Yes, he is saying that there is fear right now and its a good time to be greedy in the near term, while the news about the economy isn't all that good. But he hasn't said the fundamentals are strong - at least not near term. His voice of confidence that our long term prospects are still good is reassuring and I agree that if you can pick the right stocks, this is a great time to be buying. We won't completely collapse as a nation - we will survive and many companies will survive. The trick is picking the right ones and then having the intestinal fortitude to stick with them while the economy - and dare I say our way of life and financial markets - reinvent themselves.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I didn't quite read it the way you did. Yes, he is saying that there is fear right now and its a good time to be greedy in the near term, while the news about the economy isn't all that good. But he hasn't said the fundamentals are strong - at least not near term. His voice of confidence that our long term prospects are still good is reassuring and I agree that if you can pick the right stocks, this is a great time to be buying. We won't completely collapse as a nation - we will survive and many companies will survive. The trick is picking the right ones and then having the intestinal fortitude to stick with them while the economy - and dare I say our way of life and financial markets - reinvent themselves.
    I'll write more about this if I've time -- but there's more going on that should be scary than is generally understood.

    though as an immediate problem the credit market freeze needed to be addressed, damage has already been done by it, the mortage meltdown, the derivative gaming, and by the very efforts being made to resurrect the system from all of the above ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I didn't quite read it the way you did.
    Fair enough.
    But he hasn't said the fundamentals are strong - at least not near term.
    Effectively he has since that's where he's putting his money.
    "Fears regarding the long-term prosperity of the nation's many sound companies make no sense," wrote Buffett. "Most major companies will be setting new profit records 5, 10 and 20 years from now."
    His voice of confidence that our long term prospects are still good is reassuring and I agree that if you can pick the right stocks, this is a great time to be buying.
    Picking the right stocks is much easier than most think. The catch is that most people seem to define 'picking the right stocks' as picking the next trendy flash-in-the-pan where they'll buy 1000 shares for $1 each and make a mint when it rises to $1000 a share. Picking the right stocks is and has always been about doing research and picking the businesses that are doing things in a sensible way. Buffett is no fool. He's not going to put money into a shaky economy to see it go up in smoke. His whole point is that 'irrational exuberance' is a sign that you should be looking into less volatile investments, and 'irrational pessimism' is the perfect time to capitalize on bargain-basement deals.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    That being said, what the 'fundamentals' of the economy are seems to generate a lot of confusion and discord.
    I agree. I know the fundamentals are not "workers". But I also agree that the phrase the "fundamentals of the economy" is rather broad and open to interpretation. One could probably assume that what Mr. Buffet considers the fundamentals and what a politician campaigning for President sees as fundamental are two different things.

    I think most economist would agree we are in a recession - and I believe most politicians would agree that we're in a recession. I also believe that those same politicians would equate an economy in recession to one that has less than stellar "fundamentals".

    That said, Buffet is doing what Buffet does. He doesn't bet very much on flash-in-the-pan stocks, like those that were so popular back in the internet hay day. And in this economy, that is considered to be in a recession possibly entering into a deep recession, Buffet is investing in America by buying stock in US companies. But rest assured, they are companies he has deemed will survive a recession and perhaps even a depression...or should I say, those that will survive an economy that does have strong fundamentals?
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I agree. I know the fundamentals are not "workers".
    LOL. No, they are not 'the fundamentals'. The fundamentals of the US economy are a bit more intangible, IMO.
    But I also agree that the phrase the "fundamentals of the economy" is rather broad and open to interpretation. One could probably assume that what Mr. Buffet considers the fundamentals and what a politician campaigning for President sees as fundamental are two different things.
    Undoubtedly. I'm definitely closer to Buffett.
    I think most economist would agree we are in a recession - and I believe most politicians would agree that we're in a recession. I also believe that those same politicians would equate an economy in recession to one that has less than stellar "fundamentals".
    Not necessarily. The problem is that we've gone off the ranch in that respect. We've traded the fundamentals for unrealistic promises. Something for nothing is always a recipe for disaster.
    And in this economy, that is considered to be in a recession possibly entering into a deep recession, Buffet is investing in America by buying stock in US companies. But rest assured, they are companies he has deemed will survive a recession and perhaps even a depression...or should I say, those that will survive an economy that does have strong fundamentals?
    What Buffett is doing is trying to inject a little reality into the panic.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    What Buffett is doing is trying to inject a little reality into the panic.
    Yup. That and a little bit of patriotism too. He knows full well what his billions can do to improve perceptions and increase confidence in our financial markets.

    The guy is my friggin' hero, in case you haven't noticed.
  18. #78  
    What about that great person under the name of George Soros - are you going to include him?
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