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  1.    #1  
    I thought for sure race would play an issue in this election but this article shows that the religious types want to force their religious beliefs down our throat as well.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26750675/

    Oh those crazy Republican religious zealots.

    Favorite quotes from this article:

    "One parishioner ruled out voting for Mr. Obama explicitly because he is black. "Are they going to make it the Black House?"

    "But then his local bishop plunged into the fray, barring Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, the Democratic vice-presidential nominee, from receiving communion in the area because of his support for abortion rights."

    "It would be wise for them to focus on how policies they are going to implement as leaders are going to move forward the church teachings they say they believe in."

    Me thinks that Mr. Obama has many forces of evil working against him. I fear the combination of racism and organized religion may be too tough to beat.
  2. #2  
    Ethnicity is a significant factor in this election, but it factors more towards his supporters rather than his detractors. I have encountered many deeply religious people, all of whom have physical features similar to Obama, who support him despite the stark contrast between his theological and political views and their own.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Ethnicity is a significant factor in this election, but it factors more towards his supporters rather than his detractors. I have encountered many deeply religious people, all of whom have physical features similar to Obama, who support him despite the stark contrast between his theological and political views and their own.
    But chances are it will work against him, not for him. I'll post the article I just read on this recently, but it claims that Obama may need as much as a 10 point lead to truly win this thing. This is due to the "hidden" bigots out there that say they may vote for him on the phone because they won't admit their racial biases, but in reality, show up at the polls and vote against him because he is black. The article cited a couple of prominent black politicians, such as Mayor David Dinkens of NY, that were ahead by double digits in the polls but on election day only squeaked by by 1 or 2 points.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    But chances are it will work against him, not for him. I'll post the article I just read on this recently, but it claims that Obama may need as much as a 10 point lead to truly win this thing. This is due to the "hidden" bigots out there that say they may vote for him on the phone because they won't admit their racial biases, but in reality, show up at the polls and vote against him because he is black. The article cited a couple of prominent black politicians, such as Mayor David Dinkens of NY, that were ahead by double digits in the polls but on election day only squeaked by by 1 or 2 points.
    Also known as the Bradley effect.
    As high profile as this race is, I wonder how much would this damage America's image?
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  5. #5  
    I'm deeply worried about our electoral process for exactly the reason that is presented in the initial posts....our government should not "move forward the church teachings" of any candidate. That's what separation of church and state is exactly for. I would rather not have my government impose their beliefs on me.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Also known as the Bradley effect.
    As high profile as this race is, I wonder how much would this damage America's image?
    Thanks Iago - yes, that is it. I couldn't recall the article or exact name of it, so thanks.

    I'm not sure our image abroad can get much worse. And obviously the bigots that won't vote for Obama due to his race really don't care if we appear to be a racist nation. Hardly what I'd call "country first".
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Ethnicity is a significant factor in this election, but it factors more towards his supporters rather than his detractors. I have encountered many deeply religious people, all of whom have physical features similar to Obama, who support him despite the stark contrast between his theological and political views and their own.
    I agree -- but I'd see it as working both ways.

    I've listened, for example to a black woman commentator affiliated with a conservative group -- ostensibly there because of her conservative views -- defending Obama and chastising McCain for some his attacks. I doubt she would have said the same things if Kerry were the candidate.

    I have no doubt that Obama will get a disproportionately large share of Black conservative's votes.

    But since democrats already historically get 90% of the Black vote (and collectively they are approx 10% of the larger population) I don't see any inroads made within that 10% as being meaningful.

    Conversely, in aggregate there are as likely more silently embittered red necks and Archie Bunker Dems extant.

    It has always been my feeling that his "newness", his inexperience, his lack of national exposure and a track record -- provide an easy and persuasive rationale for the discomfort these folks already had for Obama.

    That belief was one of the reasons I had for advocating that he wait and more completely introduce himself to the nation -- (by making a track record in the Senate -- or as Vice-President) before reaching for the top post.

    FWIW -- I am unhappy and uncomfortable whenever any candidate leverages the specific support he or she has from within their own niche.

    This often has the unintended but likely corollary of discomfort among other groups.

    Though BARYE clearly deserves to be the first Simian American elected (or crowned -- I'm not choosy) President, I know that human's innate sensitivity regarding their relative inferiority, prevents it. (99% support amongst Simians is unfortunately not enough for success in a free and fair election -- which is why BARYE hates elections...)

    I don't like it when voters override their ideology just because of ethnic/gender pride.

    I don't like it when some women are quoted as saying they identified with Hillary, but now won't vote for Obama -- and may even go with McSame -- because of Palin's femaleness.

    I hated that Romney was able to leverage his support amongst Mormons to do better than he ought have (getting great Mormon turnout, and gobs of cash from the mormon community.

    Likewise I have made no secret that I have thought that the ethnic makeup of the voters populating the democratic primaries and caucuses gave Obama much more of an advantage than did Hillary's gender "identifications". (as the Sat. Nite Live Palin parody illustrated -- Hillary was usually seen less as a candidate of and for woman -- and more as an uber ambitous striver, who just happened to be inhabiting the body of a woman...)

    I hope my fears (and everyone else's) are exaggerated on this issue -- I hope he wins.

    Were this a normal year I think he would not.

    But the economy is so frighteningly bad, people lives are being so desperately destroyed in places like Ohio and Michigan -- that I believe he can win a very narrow victory if he can do even decently well in framing the economic debate(s) with McSame.
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/17/2008 at 09:36 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    [...] Me thinks that Mr. Obama has many forces of evil working against him. I fear the combination of racism and organized religion may be too tough to beat.
    I think the latter is the much harder bridge to cross. Having seen parallels in the current governor of my state, I can say that ethnicity can get quickly jettisoned from consideration when most other factors align (or diverge).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #9  
    Here we are classifying everyone who is conservative as a racist and everyone who is a liberal as not a racist. Wow. Why not look in your own back yard? Why not look at the comments made by Obama and his attempts to bring attention to his race? Why not look at the comments by Biden? Why not look at the history of Bill Ayers. Really now, has anyone heard the Republican side leadership bring up Obama's race? Have you heard anyone on the Republican leadership side make comments akin to Biden's? Have you heard anyone on the Republican leadership side say anything about cab drivers or 7-Eleven employees?

    You speak of "conservative" hatred and yet some of you display it to a degree that speaks for itself.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Here we are classifying everyone who is conservative as a racist and everyone who is a liberal as not a racist. Wow.
    Another "wow" indeed Ben. A little sensitive now aren't we? Where in the world did anyone say that ALL conservatives are racist? In fact, the article above was about traditionally Democratic Catholics that won't vote for him due to abortion...and yes, one admitted because of his race. Is it time for your pills yet?

    Why not look in your own back yard? Why not look at the comments made by Obama and his attempts to bring attention to his race?
    Oh yes....the comment about how he doesn't look like other guys that have been President. Pretty damning stuff Ben.

    Why not look at the comments by Biden?
    The 7-Eleven comment? Yes, racist indeed. It was covered by the media. My brother-in-law is Indian and he wasn't offended. I don't think you should pretend to be either.

    Why not look at the history of Bill Ayers. Really now, has anyone heard the Republican side leadership bring up Obama's race? Have you heard anyone on the Republican leadership side make comments akin to Biden's? Have you heard anyone on the Republican leadership side say anything about cab drivers or 7-Eleven employees?
    Which ones? Strom Thurman?

    You speak of "conservative" hatred and yet some of you display it to a degree that speaks for itself.
    I speak for the truth. I speak for my country that has been overtaken by religious zealots who compromise their beliefs and use Christs' name for the sake of winning elections - as a former Christian, I don't believe Jesus would be very happy with these pretenders. I speak for those that died to preserve our freedoms...including the separation of Church and State. I speak for those tired of politicians and their religion being exploited for political gain. I speak for those tired of those that put party before country AT ALL COSTS. If you call that hate...well then you are so full of it yourself, you'll never get it Ben.
  11. #11  
    Wow, you sure take a lot upon yourself and I hope you can carry the load that you feel you must.

    I am glad you speak of those tired of politicians exploiting religion for political gain. Your friend does his share of it - says one thing to 1 group and something different to another.

    Enjoy your roll and I hope you are successful.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Wow, you sure take a lot upon yourself and I hope you can carry the load that you feel you must.

    I am glad you speak of those tired of politicians exploiting religion for political gain. Your friend does his share of it - says one thing to 1 group and something different to another.

    Enjoy your roll and I hope you are successful.
    Shhh...I'm praying for your very soul right now Ben.
  13. #13  
    Thank you, it shows that you are a very religious person and that is very comforting. Bless you.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Thank you, it shows that you are a very religious person and that is very comforting. Bless you.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I speak for the truth. I speak for my country that has been overtaken by religious zealots who compromise their beliefs and use Christs' name for the sake of winning elections - as a former Christian, I don't believe Jesus would be very happy with these pretenders. I speak for those that died to preserve our freedoms...including the separation of Church and State. I speak for those tired of politicians and their religion being exploited for political gain. I speak for those tired of those that put party before country AT ALL COSTS.
    You can speak for me any day brother!
  16. #16  
    Yep, like Obama, he can speak for all of us! I am waiting to be united by the messiah. Thank you.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Yep, like Obama, he can speak for all of us! I am waiting to be united by the messiah. Thank you.
    I'm still praying for you Ben....hang in there...this could take a while.
  18. #18  
    I was a bit surprised to see that Obama's defense plan includes support of preemptive military action (bottom of page 2). Could that be used to drive a wedge between him and the anti-war contingent?
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    I was a bit surprised to see that Obama's defense plan includes support of preemptive military action (bottom of page 2). Could that be used to drive a wedge between him and the anti-war contingent?
    Heck, even Bill Clinton supported preemptive military action. I'm not sure if any serious Presidential candidate would take that off the table.
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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Heck, even Bill Clinton supported preemptive military action. I'm not sure if any serious Presidential candidate would take that off the table.
    I suppose the question would be around what constitutes imminent (sp?) danger.
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