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  1.    #1  
    My wife and I were discussing the upcoming Presidential Election this morning, and our growing discontent with all of the options (I can't even bring myself to fall back on my own party's candidate this time around). I'd like to therefore issue a challenge to the Off Topic forum, and this will be a real difficult one for most of the Off Topic denizens, it seems.
    • Tell me a positive reason to vote for your candidate of choice.
    • Back it up with something substantive (voting record, membership/participation in a relevant organization, etc.) and not just a position mentioned in a speech.
    • And lastly, the really tough request will be that you do not attack the proponents of the person you are against or that person. You can refute their point with contrary evidence if it exists (e.g. a changed vote on a later resubmission of a bill which they use in their example), but please keep it out of the ad hominem realm.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  2. #2  
    McCain - strong on defense, supported the surge, does not support earmarks. Voting record. He did not vote for the Highway to Nowhere, Obama and Biden did.
  3.    #3  
    You were so close to living up the challenge. The last little bit is irrelevant, though. Please remove it.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #4  
    It is relevant. It goes to show that Obama and Biden to support ear marks.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    It is relevant.

    Read the first post in this thread... read the posting requests... you will see your post is not relevant.... neither is this one since I'm attacking you.
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  6. #6  
    I'm hoping that you don't take this as a slap against anyone, Toby, but contrasting positions is an important part of the process. I'm leaning more toward Obama at this point. One reason is CNN's analysis of taxes of people making various incomes:

    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I'm hoping that you don't take this as a slap against anyone, Toby, but contrasting positions is an important part of the process. I'm leaning more toward Obama at this point. One reason is CNN's analysis of taxes of people making various incomes:
    Unfortunately, that is not the "total" picture... capital gains might be caught up in this as well... and other items.

    I think this thread is headed for failure.
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  8. #8  
    No, but on positions again, the Democrats took a position back in 2005 was it 2006 to vote down John McCain's bill to reform Fannie and Freddie and was it not the Democrats who voted it down and is it not the Democrats who are now trying to pin everything on the Bush administration? Look it up and it will stare you in the face. Politics as usual. And who is going to chair this upcoming investigation? Will the chair call himself? Will the chair call Obama? Will the chair call Johnny? Will the chair call the directors of Fannie & Freddie? Will the chair call Nancy? Betcha the chair will call only the Republican side of this farce.
  9. #9  
    Theog, I do not consider this as an attack, just general rhetoric.

    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Read the first post in this thread... read the posting requests... you will see your post is not relevant.... neither is this one since I'm attacking you.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    ...just general rhetoric.
    Perhaps you should change your userID to "just rhetoric" - it seems to be all that you're capable of.

    Shame really. I was hoping this thread could remain above board as Toby requested.
  11. #11  
    Yeah, a couple of folks can't help but to poison any discussion.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I'm hoping that you don't take this as a slap against anyone, Toby, but contrasting positions is an important part of the process. I'm leaning more toward Obama at this point. One reason is CNN's analysis of taxes of people making various incomes:

    I don't have a problem with the graphic, or contrasting positions, per se. It just wasn't my goal for this thread. That being said, I don't think that graphic is a slap. What I would be interested in finding would be more details on both of their plans and how they planned to get them passed. For example, the graphic leaves out a significant gap there. What happens to the people between 112K-227K? What percentages of the population fall into those brackets? What is the their tax burden to be paid (IOW, how much are they really 'saving')? Just trying to get a bit beyond the rhetoric.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I don't have a problem with the graphic, or contrasting positions, per se. It just wasn't my goal for this thread. That being said, I don't think that graphic is a slap. What I would be interested in finding would be more details on both of their plans and how they planned to get them passed. For example, the graphic leaves out a significant gap there. What happens to the people between 112K-227K? What percentages of the population fall into those brackets? What is the their tax burden to be paid (IOW, how much are they really 'saving')? Just trying to get a bit beyond the rhetoric.
    Good question. But I don't think the omission was done purposely to mislead, so much as just representing a wide range of data points in short amount of space. The tables in the report are attached and placed below and they clearly prove that Obama's tax cuts are just that - TAX CUTS - for over 95% of Americans. This proves that McSame and Ben are lying about Obama's tax plan.

    Most noteworthy is that neither plan is paid for. Doubly so for McSame by 2012.
    Attached Images Attached Images
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I don't have a problem with the graphic, or contrasting positions, per se. It just wasn't my goal for this thread. That being said, I don't think that graphic is a slap. What I would be interested in finding would be more details on both of their plans and how they planned to get them passed. For example, the graphic leaves out a significant gap there. What happens to the people between 112K-227K? What percentages of the population fall into those brackets? What is the their tax burden to be paid (IOW, how much are they really 'saving')? Just trying to get a bit beyond the rhetoric.
    I would say quite a few people fall between 112 and 227... two couples making $60,000 each would do it... I think almost every couple I know right now (not all, but the far majority) make in that range.

    That is an interesting question....
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I would say quite a few people fall between 112 and 227... two couples making $60,000 each would do it... I think almost every couple I know right now (not all, but the far majority) make in that range.

    That is an interesting question....
    Wow... That must be nice... I make 25k and my wife makes around $70 a week babysitting... *sigh*
    Grant Smith
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    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
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    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  16. #16  
    I will vote for mccain. Here is why:

    He understands ethics. As part of the largest ethics scandale in DC, McCain came out of it with a clear understanding of what he should and should not do. As part of the Keating 5 McCain oversaw the failure of 747 savings and loan associations. The total scandal cost the American taxpayer $124.6 billion. (Wikipedia)

    McCain understands family values. I'm single so I look up to a man that knows when to get out of a relationship. When his first wife was crippled, a young J McCain in his 40s picked up a very young (and rich) wife in her mid-20s. McCain did not even wait for a divorce, he did it the right way and went for what he wanted. Marriage is overrated anyway.

    McCain understands lobbyist and knows exactly how to handle them. Being one who helped the companies Vicky worked for, mccain showed me that he has the strength and fortitude to get into the lobbyist movement and destruct them from within. Mccain has shown me that if you want to destroy lobbyist, you take their money and break them. I don't think most understand McCain's plan.

    McCain on foreign policy/bipartisanship. Although, mccain does not understand the different religious groups in the middle east, he has the common sense to take Joe Lieberman, a democrat, on trips abroad. It is wonderful seeing Joe Lieberman whispering in McCain's ear to correct him on various foreign policy/issues that mccain can't keep straight. Bipartisanship is a wonderful thing.

    McCain on domestic policy. McCain is working to understand domestic policy. He himself said he does not understand the economy but stated he was going to read Greenspan's book. I'm sure after reading that book mccain will be ready to fix our ailing economy.

    McCain also understands that one must change their mind on a continuous basis in order to keep the opposition wondering what he will do or say next. Not voting for something, but then voting for it... or stating one thing in KY, but then stating the opposite in PA. It is wonderful how he keeps obama on his toes.

    McCain also has the best pick for vice president. I can't wait to see how Palin explains the McCain doctrine.

    McCain is a testament of all things American. It is a wonderful thing.

    McCain in '08!!!!
    Last edited by theog; 09/17/2008 at 11:45 AM.
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  17. #17  
    ^rotflmao!:d
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by gksmithlcw View Post
    Wow... That must be nice... I make 25k and my wife makes around $70 a week babysitting... *sigh*
    We have a saying around here:

    "If you want more money, use your imagination. God will do the rest."
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  19. #19  
    I found that funny. Thank you. Question though, with his proposed tax increases, proposed increased funding and proposed cuts, where is the almost $1 billion short fall coming from?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I found that funny. Thank you. Question though, with his proposed tax increases, proposed increased funding and proposed cuts, where is the almost $1 billion short fall coming from?
    He is funneling it back to Fannie Mae...of course!

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