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  1.    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Laughing and I bet you still insist Obama/Biden is the best...
    Moi ???

    What, you think BARYE has dropped his torch for Hillary ????

    (Hillary/Obama has a good ring to it though -- is it too late ??)
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  2. #102  
    Once again you have gone too far to the left; guess there is no compromise.
  3.    #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Once again you have gone too far to the left; guess there is no compromise.
    that's an observation you need to discuss with Da Thomas ...
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  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    No, Theog, not in the least. We both know, though we may not admit it, that these 4 are not the best of the crop. I feel more comfortable with McCain/Palin than Obama/Biden.
    That is where you are very wrong.

    Read my other posts.

    I think it is about 4 years early for obama and about 12 years late for McCain.

    Biden is right on target for VP or even being President.

    Palin is about 8 years early.

    I don't "feel" comfortable with McCain/Palin at all. McCain's judgment is severely flawed (amongst other things) and Palin does not have a clue and it will be hard for her to get a clue due to her current legal circumstance.
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  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    That is a tough question. VP Palin represents a lot of "middle" America, even with her "issues." For president, I have always liked Mitt Romney, his experience in the business world, basic values, et cetera. If McCain were to stay on the ticket, I really do prefer Romney. They compliment each other very well.
    Two reasons why Romney is not on this ticket:

    #1: McCain tore him a new one in the debates. McCain showed his teeth early in FL.

    #2: Romney's religious beliefs.
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  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Ummmm....okay. Have you read the article and the context he intended?

    Seriously...I know lots of Indians and none seem to be nearly as offended as you are.
    A couple points to consider...
    1) I think 'bigoted' would probably be more apropos than 'racist' (not that I think either apply in this case considering full context of his remarks).
    2) I don't think offense within an informal sample is necessarily a reliable factor in determining whether it does apply.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    A couple points to consider...
    2) I don't think offense within an informal sample is necessarily a reliable factor in determining whether it does apply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    The fact that you perceive this, does not make it so.
    Wow! I see youíve been contemplating since our exchange in the 2008 presidential countdown thread. Iím proud of you grasshopper.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Wow! I see youíve been contemplating since our exchange in the 2008 presidential countdown thread. Iím proud of you grasshopper.
    You overreacted and misinterpreted that comment in the first place (and apparently are skewing something from this one). Also, backhanded compliments aren't necessary, and are likely counter-productive.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    A couple points to consider...
    1) I think 'bigoted' would probably be more apropos than 'racist' (not that I think either apply in this case considering full context of his remarks).
    2) I don't think offense within an informal sample is necessarily a reliable factor in determining whether it does apply.
    Agreed on point 2.

    As for point 1, bigot and racist are the same thing to me - they both have an extreme intolerance and hatred for another race and feel their race is superior. Calling Biden a racist or bigot based on this comment alone is a pretty big leap.

    So I think the word we are looking for here is "insensitive". Biden's comments were insensitive. Clumsy. Awkward. But if you're from the North East then you know they are also true - has anyone ever watched a Simpson's episode? Would you like a slurpee with that? FWIW - I admire these immigrants for building their own businesses (franchises) and trying to live the American dream. More so than some folks born here on our soil that do nothing but complain and live off welfare their whole life.

    In any event, it’s really funny to me to hear the same right-wingers (not you Toby...I know you're a Libertarian) foam at the mouth about immigration and offer up plenty of racial intolerance of their own and then suddenly they are interested in racial equality. Based on the attendance of all 9 African Americans at the GOP convention, it is even more hilarious that the right continues to try to spin this as Biden being a "racist".
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    As for point 1, bigot and racist are the same thing to me - they both have an extreme intolerance and hatred for another race and feel their race is superior.
    They are definitely in the same vein, but besides the concept of race being a bit outmoded, the Indian people are not of a different race from my historical recollection. My boss (of significantly Indian descent) and I used to get confused for the same person all the time before I started doing the buzzcut look. Granted, my people are also a bit on the olive side, and have had their share of bigoted treatment.
    Calling Biden a racist or bigot based on this comment alone is a pretty big leap.
    It's a huge leap. But even saying the statement was bigoted is a significant leap within context.
    So I think the word we are looking for here is "insensitive". Biden's comments were insensitive. Clumsy. Awkward.
    Clumsy and awkward, definitely. Not very politically astute either.
    But if you're from the North East then you know they are also true - has anyone ever watched a Simpson's episode? Would you like a slurpee with that?
    That's it. Now you can't ever run for office.
    FWIW - I admire these immigrants for building their own businesses (franchises) and trying to live the American dream. More so than some folks born here on our soil that do nothing but complain and live off welfare their whole life.

    In any event, itís really funny to me to hear the same right-wingers (not you Toby...I know you're a Libertarian) foam at the mouth about immigration and offer up plenty of racial intolerance of their own and then suddenly they are interested in racial equality. Based on the attendance of all 9 African Americans at the GOP convention, it is even more hilarious that the right continues to try to spin this as Biden being a "racist".
    They do have Bobby going for them, though, I suppose. Maybe that's why they're acting all high and mighty. He'd have probably been a much more compelling choice than Palin, although I personally still couldn't get beyond the religious issue and vote for him.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    They do have Bobby going for them, though, I suppose. Maybe that's why they're acting all high and mighty. He'd have probably been a much more compelling choice than Palin, although I personally still couldn't get beyond the religious issue and vote for him.
    Well they share many of the same disconcerting religious values so I think he would have hurt McSame more than helped. I mean, Indian is as good as black to many of the bigots that won't vote for Obama because he is half-black. Now I believe he is more qualified than Sarah-the-liar so the fact that McSame passed him over shows that he both a) knows a portion of his base are bigots and b) put his personal goals to win the Presidency over country by picking someone completely unfit to be Vice President when he had someone like Bobby there for the taking.
  12. #112  
    Even if it had been offerred, Bobby made it clear that he wasn't taking it. If the offer had come just after he started a second term, that might be different, but it'd have been political suicide for him to jump from the governorship that soon.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  13. #113  
    Talking about people, has anyone visited the list of people from the Lehman Brothers who are advisers to Obama? John Ray is one name pops up and there is another one. Also, just to keep things lively, http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...rezko-auc.html.

    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5076

    http://www.thenextright.com/soren-da...or-john-mccain

    http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com...es-lehman.html

    Gosh, it is just amazing what there is when one starts looking. Neither candidates shines, but one particularly does not shine.

    Change. Just words. Just speeches.
  14. #114  
    Given that Obama has been giving a measured, smart response all week, I'd say he is surrounded by the right people. I've listed his economic advisors below. I wouldn't be surprised if some advisors also worked for Lehman - that doesn't in itself become a bad thing: just because he's a change agent doesn't mean he would only ask advice from people totally outside of the financial community....that would be stupid.

    McCain's response has been a bit scary: "deregulate, then don't"... "don't bailout, then a bailout is a good idea"... "fire the SEC chief, even though the president has no authority to". He is, at his core, a deregulator: deregulation caused this problem, according to the conventional wisdom.

    Here is a list of Obama's economic advisors, that your partisan editorial blogs left out - posting editorials certainly is a weak support to an argument. People can judge whether he's in good hands:

    Economic policy advisors:
    Jason Furman (director of economy policy)
    Austan Goolsbee (senior economic policy advisor), University of Chicago tax policy expert
    Karen Kornbluh (policy director)
    David Cutler, Harvard health policy expert
    Jeff Liebman, Harvard welfare expert
    Michael Froman, Citigroup executive
    Daniel Tarullo, Georgetown law professor
    David Romer, Berkeley macroeconomist
    Christina Romer, Berkeley economic historian
    Richard Thaler, University of Chicago behavioral finance expert

    Robert Rubin, former Treasury Secretary
    Larry Summers, former Treasury Secretary
    Alan Blinder, former Vice-chairman of the Federal Reserve
    Jared Bernstein, Economic Policy Institute labor economist
    James Galbraith, University of Texas macroeconomist

    Paul Volcker, Chairman of the Federal Reserve 1979-1987
    Laura Tyson, Berkeley international economist, Bill Clinton economic adviser
    Robert Reich, Berkeley public policy professor, former Secretary of Labor
    Peter Henry, Stanford international economist
    Gene Sperling, former White House economic adviser

    Other prominent economists who support Obama:
    Brad Delong, Berkeley macroeconomist
    Joseph Stiglitz, 2001 Nobel laureate
    Edmund Phelps, 2006 Nobel laureate
    Ray Fair, Yale macroeconomist
    Dan McFadden, 2000 Nobel laureate
    Robert Solow, 1987 Nobel laureate

    Prominent finance people who support Obama: (not actually economists)
    William Donaldson, Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Chair 2003-05
    Arthur Levitt, SEC chair 1993-2001
    David Ruder, SEC chair 1987-1989
    Warren Buffet, investor, richest person in world
    Last edited by Bujin; 09/21/2008 at 08:30 AM.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Talking about people, has anyone visited the list of people from the Lehman Brothers who are advisers to Obama? John Ray is one name pops up and there is another one. Also, just to keep things lively, http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...rezko-auc.html.

    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/5076

    http://www.thenextright.com/soren-da...or-john-mccain

    http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com...es-lehman.html

    Gosh, it is just amazing what there is when one starts looking. Neither candidates shines, but one particularly does not shine.

    Change. Just words. Just speeches.
    Just when I thought you'd "change" your rhetoric, you post this blather.

    I'm going to have to say some extra Hail Marys and a few Our Fathers to save you from this one.
  16.    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Given that Obama has been giving a measured, smart response all week, I'd say he is surrounded by the right people. I've listed his economic advisors below. I wouldn't be surprised if some advisors also worked for Lehman - that doesn't in itself become a bad thing: just because he's a change agent doesn't mean he would only ask advice from people totally outside of the financial community....that would be stupid.

    McCain's response has been a bit scary: "deregulate, then don't"... "don't bailout, then a bailout is a good idea"... "fire the SEC chief, even though the president has no authority to". He is, at his core, a deregulator: deregulation caused this problem, according to the conventional wisdom...
    at his core is a liar -- someone who will say ANYTHING, irrespective of what he genuinely believes, to win.

    Since Thursday he has been running around posing as a Teddy Roosevelt "reformer" who now wants to get tougher on Wall Street.

    He has been trying to blame Obama for the worst economy, the worst economic meltdown -- since the Great Depression.

    What's important to me is whether he gets away with it.

    No doubt some will believe.

    Enough to win ?? Not so sure, probably not ...

    With only weeks to go before the election, I wouldn't be surprised if junior and McSame adopted BARYE's mortgage plan if they thought it could save them from the consequences of their treasonous folly.
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  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    at his core is a liar -- someone who will say ANYTHING, irrespective of what he genuinely believes, to win.

    Since Thursday he has been running around posing as a Teddy Roosevelt "reformer" who now wants to get tougher on Wall Street.
    It really does make me a bit sad - he really did make some courageous stands prior to running for Prez.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    It really does make me a bit sad - he really did make some courageous stands prior to running for Prez.
    Well...there are more than a few vets that know John has a history of saying whatever he needs to save his skin. Look carefully at his record and contrast it with the rhetoric over the years and his infatuation with the media to self-promote himself. Then watch it all start to unravel since 2000 - when Karl Rove slimmed his family with disgusting and repulsive attacks - and then watch John put his political career before his family and his country and kissing Rove's a$$ on the campaign trail for Bush. Look back at his rhetoric the last 8 years and examine how much of his infrequent disagreement's with Bush actually manifested itself into a vote against Bush.

    This is not an honest man. John is a poser and at one time (pre-2000) his posing fooled me too. But his record is clear to me and for all that looks at it. He has sold his soul to the devil a very long time ago and he is dangerously too ill-tempered and self-serving to be President. I don't want another President of the right-wing at the helm this time around - I want a President of the UNITED States, not President of the RED states.
    Last edited by moderateinny; 09/21/2008 at 02:11 PM.
  19. #119  
    Elizabeth Drew, who wrote "Citizen McCain", a very positive novel about McCain, said this:

    McCain's recent conduct of his campaign - his willingness to lie repeatedly (including in his acceptance speech) and to play Russian roulette with the vice-presidency, in order to fulfill his long-held ambition - has reinforced my earlier, and growing, sense that John McCain is not a principled man.

    In fact, it's not clear who he is.
    As I said, I'm saddened, and left to wonder whether this corruption of principle is inevitable when one is in Washington. Any of you old fogies (like me) see "The Seduction of Joe Tynan", starring Alan Alda way back in '79?
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  20.    #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Elizabeth Drew, who wrote "Citizen McCain", a very positive novel about McCain, said this:

    Quote:
    McCain's recent conduct of his campaign - his willingness to lie repeatedly (including in his acceptance speech) and to play Russian roulette with the vice-presidency, in order to fulfill his long-held ambition - has reinforced my earlier, and growing, sense that John McCain is not a principled man.

    In fact, it's not clear who he is.

    ...
    junior in 2000 defeated McSame with a series of unprincipled bald faced lies.

    So determined was he to win this time -- at ANY cost -- that he hired junior's team to run his campaign, and adopted junior's strategy.

    Usually that approach defeats democrats who (stupidly) have a hard time lying. What MIGHT be different this year, is that the economy is SO bad, that another 4 years of the same may be just 4 more than most people can take...
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