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  1. #81  
    Obama may not have been referring to Palin as a pig, I grant that; however, the audience picked up on it and immediately came to that conclusion. An obsession with Bill Ayers? Used as an example of the people he associates with. Used as an example of entering the politics of Chicago, using it's system to gain what he wanted - he entered and was accepted by that system and now he claims change - not possible at all.

    Refutes the allegations with facts? No, not at all. Palin changed her mind on the bridge, Obama and Biden did not - how is that a lie?

    The sex-education thing and predators - the course content - read it. It goes much further than predators.

    He will raise taxes for the group that pays the majority of taxes. My taxes will go down; but those people who provide jobs will have their taxes increase and that has a down-fall side. In addition, how does he make up the $1billion short-fall? Frankly, my pocket is tight regardless of what is done.

    Was it Sarah or someone speaking for her?

    Karl Rove - I just read the article - fine - but notice, Obama is criticized there also. So that means that Obama is guilty also. So let us say that McCain lied and let us hear you say that Obama lied - that makes all of us happy. The bottom line, none are perfect, not even Obama.

    Keating 5 was bad, really bad. Killing people is even worse. Stating you did not do enough makes killing people even worse. Making racial comments is not cool, yet Obama still associates himself with people who make racial comments. When those racial comments were being made around McCain, he distanced himself a bit faster.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Ben,

    Every time you post, someone refutes your allegations with facts, including your apparent obsession with Ayers.

    I don't think you should talk about lies until you respond to the post regarding McCain's lies. Will you go so far as to admit that the McCain campaign was lying on these issues? Rather than follow your usual pattern of saying "But look at what Obama did" in an effort to distract, I'd really like to see you answer these questions:

    - Palin's statements that she said "No, thanks" to the Bridge, when she clearly supported it.

    - The claim that Obama was referring to Palin with the "lipstick" line, when his quote clearly indicates that this isn't true.

    - McCain's statements that Obama wants to teach sex ed to kinders, when the bill clearly supported anti-predator education.

    - That McCain repeatedly states that Obama will raise taxes, when it's clear that between 80-90% of people will have tax cuts.

    - The fact that Karl Rove is even stating that McCain is stretching the truth.

    - The fact that Sarah Palin claimed that she went to Iraq, but never did.



    Keating 5 and Ayers are very different. I would argue that the actions of a candidate (i.e. McCain's direct role in the Keating 5 scandal) should hold more weight than sitting on a committee with someone and having no involvement with that person's actions.
  2. #82  
    She didn't drop the Bridge to Nowhere until Congress had already halted it. Up until that moment, she was all for it. She is LYING. And you're LYING to yourself and everyone on this board trying to spin this as anything other than a LIE.

    Fortunately, the media is starting to finally grow a pair and call her and McCain on their obvious LIES. And Chuck Hagel just chimed in today flatly stating Palin is not qualified to be President nor does she have ANY foreign policy experience.

    Will the wheels finally come off the "straight talk express"? It sure seems like they have already.
  3. #83  
    Fine on that. We have heard 2 different stories on it.

    Chuck Hagel is at this time having a war with McCain - he is not one that could be considered by anyone with a non-biased opinion.

    Incidentally, Obama does not have any foreign experience. Where does it come in that the VP has to have foreign experience? This is going no where and is just a grasping of straw.

    Does Chuck Hagel have the experience needed? Really now.

    The bridge - read closer, Congress had not already halted it, though it was dead anyway - so let us not exaggerate it to make it fit our needs.
  4.    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    ... Stating you did not do enough makes killing people even worse...
    Ben I don't recall that they actually killed anyone -- aside from themselves (haven't googled this stuff) --

    There was that horrific accidental explosion of the Greenwich Village townhouse, which I remember from pictures taken shortly after the explosion -- in which people from within the Weather Underground died.

    But I don't think they ever killed anyone but themselves.

    If you're making reference to what happened at Univ. of Wisc Madison (where I also spent time -- entirely coincidental, I promise), that event was not done by Weather Underground folk.

    A John was blown up in the Capital (true BTW) -- but that bathroom may have been a victim of the beans ...
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/18/2008 at 02:16 PM.
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  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Fine on that. We have heard 2 different stories on it.

    Chuck Hagel is at this time having a war with McCain - he is not one that could be considered by anyone with a non-biased opinion.
    Yea, Chuck has a thing for liars.

    Incidentally, Obama does not have any foreign experience.
    Wasn't that him giving a speech in Germany? I didn't think he was an airport refueling when he gave that speech, was he?

    Where does it come in that the VP has to have foreign experience? This is going no where and is just a grasping of straw.
    Well I'm certain if Obama had picked Palin, you'd be foaming at the mouth over that. The VP is one heart beat away from the Presidency - they should have some semblence of foriegn experience. Palin can see Russia from her porch and landed in Ireland once for refueling. Most honest conservatives will tell you that she is extraordinarily unqualified to be VP, let alone President.

    BTW - her education is much to brag about either. Here is the education for each of the candidates:

    Obama:
    Occidental College - Two years.
    Columbia University - B.A. political science with a specialization in international relations.
    Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna *** Laude

    & Biden:
    University of Delaware - B.A. in history and B.A. in political science.
    Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

    vs.

    McCain:
    United States Naval Academy - Class rank 894 of 899

    & Palin:
    Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
    North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
    University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
    Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
    University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in journalism

    Does Chuck Hagel have the experience needed? Really now.
    At least I KNOW he has been to Iraq. Was Palin? He has infinetly more experience than Palin...too long to list here.

    The bridge - read closer, Congress had not already halted it, though it was dead anyway - so let us not exaggerate it to make it fit our needs.
    Is she lying when she says that, "I told congress I don't need that bridge to nowhere" or not? YES! She is lying through her teeth and you know it.

    Please don't make me pray for your mortal soul again today Ben. I'm too tired from trying to save you last night (you're welcome by the way).
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Most honest conservatives will tell you that she is extraordinarily unqualified to be VP, let alone President..
    Fact: she is the least qualified person on a political ticket in modern history.

    We all know this... it is a fact no matter how much any Republican attempts to spin it.
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  7. #87  
    I thank you for your help in saving my soul. No argument other than that a stop on a trip does not make one experienced or an expert in foreign things. Now, what about the racial remarks made by Biden, do you condone those remarks?
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Fine on that. We have heard 2 different stories on it.
    There are not 2 different stories on the Bridge to Nowhere. There's the facts, and then there's the story. Palin's story doesn't square with fact - it's a lie.

    Obama may not have been referring to Palin as a pig, I grant that; however, the audience picked up on it and immediately came to that conclusion.
    I'm not sure how you got into the minds of the audience; however, the issue is that McCain approved an ad claiming that he directly called her a pig - he approved a lie.

    The sex-education thing and predators - the course content - read it. It goes much further than predators.
    I have. It doesn't call for "teaching sex before reading" - a lie that McCain approved.

    He will raise taxes for the group that pays the majority of taxes. My taxes will go down; but those people who provide jobs will have their taxes increase and that has a down-fall side.
    McCain claims that taxes will go up for anyone making over $42K per year. Folks can have honest discussions about whether your "trickle-down" theory is correct, but McCain's allegation is a lie.

    Karl Rove - I just read the article - fine - but notice, Obama is criticized there also. So that means that Obama is guilty also.
    Karl Rove is expected to criticize Obama - he's embedded in the Bush administration. The fact that he's criticizing McCain is incredibly significant - any time you're a Republican that is too dishonest for Karl Rove, you have a real problem.


    Does Chuck Hagel have the experience needed? Really now.
    Well, Chuck Hagel is a very respected senator, and has served on the:

    * Committee on Foreign Relations
    o Subcommittee on Near Eastern and South and Central Asian Affairs
    o Subcommittee on African Affairs
    o Subcommittee on East Asian and Pacific Affairs
    o Subcommittee on International Development and Foreign Assistance, Economic Affairs, and International Environmental Protection (Ranking Member)
    * Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs
    o Subcommittee on Securities, Insurance and Investment
    o Subcommittee on Financial Institutions (Ranking Member)
    o Subcommittee on Housing, Transportation, and Community Development
    * Select Committee on Intelligence
    * Committee on Rules and Administration

    Chuck definitely has a ton a relevant experience. If Chuck were the Republican nominee, I would vote for him.
    Last edited by Bujin; 09/18/2008 at 03:44 PM.
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  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I thank you for your help in saving my soul.
    It's what we Catholics do (okay...so I'm an ex-Catholic...but no Bishops have told me I cannot receive communion of late so I think I'm in good standing).

    Now, what about the racial remarks made by Biden, do you condone those remarks?
    Yes, what about them? Please tell me what racial remarks you are referring to? Perhaps I missed something other than the 7-Eleven comments so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and give you a chance to redeem yourself on this point.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Now, what about the racial remarks made by Biden, do you condone those remarks?
    Since you did not provide a link, I refuse to have an idea of what you are talking about.

    But I definitely don't condone racial remarks from anyone. Especially the ones you have made in the past. Ironic YOU suggest someone made a racial remark. Actually, that is almost funny.
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  11. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Ummmm....okay. Have you read the article and the context he intended?

    Seriously...I know lots of Indians and none seem to be nearly as offended as you are.

    So now that you're down from that White Horse of yours, what else ya' got for us?
  12. #93  
    I read it in detail a while back. I understand the explanation given, but it was an explanation - had he been using his head, he never would have made the statement he did. The bottom line is - thought first and that is a problem that seems to be exceedingly apparent this election cycle on both sides of the isle. The insistence of Obama's initial, "Just words, just speeches" and his gaffs, those of others and when brought up, wow, one would think a criticism of the Messiah had just occurred.

    Whether you like it or not, he is only a man and the way he presents himself makes it very difficult to really believe that he will "unite" everyone. Some of what he says is great, some of what McCain is great and some of what both says is garbage - admit it and life with is good again; however, it seems like you and a few others fail to admit fault on your candidate's side when McCain does the same thing and it becomes a major issue.

    This election has us with 4 people who frankly are not strong candidates in the over-all picture. We have one who is strong on defense and one we have that says believe in me..." Believe in me does not cut it for bunches of us and yet a strong defense is important to all of us. My thoughts on Obama - nice guy, lousy politics. What he should do: wait a while, get himself together, get some experience under his belt, consider what/who he associates with, and then give it another go.

    I voted for Billy and what moved me away from the Democrat -party; his lack of morality. Obama has issues I do not like (abortion, infanticide, you all know the story) and if he were to change those issues and really move toward the center, I would have no problem supporting him.
  13. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Yes, that was stupid, inconsiderate, and racist. I had not seen that before... thanks for the post.
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  14. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    if he were to change those issues and really move toward the center, I would have no problem supporting him.
    Oh, wow... that is a change... that Palin pick must have scared the hell out of you.
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  15. #96  
    No, Theog, not in the least. We both know, though we may not admit it, that these 4 are not the best of the crop. I feel more comfortable with McCain/Palin than Obama/Biden.
  16.    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    No, Theog, not in the least. We both know, though we may not admit it, that these 4 are not the best of the crop. I feel more comfortable with McCain/Palin than Obama/Biden.
    so who was your dream ticket ??
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  17. #98  
    That is a tough question. VP Palin represents a lot of "middle" America, even with her "issues." For president, I have always liked Mitt Romney, his experience in the business world, basic values, et cetera. If McCain were to stay on the ticket, I really do prefer Romney. They compliment each other very well.
  18.    #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    That is a tough question. VP Palin represents a lot of "middle" America, even with her "issues." For president, I have always liked Mitt Romney, his experience in the business world, basic values, et cetera. If McCain were to stay on the ticket, I really do prefer Romney. They compliment each other very well.
    BARYE's furry palm covers his disbelieving eyes, as he shakes his head in sorrow ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  19. #100  
    Laughing and I bet you still insist Obama/Biden is the best...
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