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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    The original source is OpenSecrets.org, a self-described "nonpartisan guide to money’s influence on U.S. elections and public policy."
    Thanks for the link - original sources are always better. I am confused, though: that site indicates that Barack received (unless I'm reading it wrong) the bulk of that money (all but $6000) from individual employees of Fannie / Freddie. Is that true? If so, then it's very different from saying that "Fannie and Freddie's PAC paid the candidates $120K".

    I think all hands are dirty regarding PAC moneys, but I like to understand the process.
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  2.    #42  
    until they lost control of the congress during the last election, nearly ALL lobbyist money went to the GOP exclusively -- Delay and his corrupt cronies would literally punish companies and organizations that gave money to the Dems.

    Since the Dems gained control of both houses of congress, lobbyists have begun to again split their congressional tithings (and the GOP has discovered that it doesn't LOVE earmarks so much anymore ...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/16/2008 at 11:35 AM.
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Thanks for the link - original sources are always better. I am confused, though: that site indicates that Barack received (unless I'm reading it wrong) the bulk of that money (all but $6000) from individual employees of Fannie / Freddie. Is that true? If so, then it's very different from saying that "Fannie and Freddie's PAC paid the candidates $120K".

    I think all hands are dirty regarding PAC moneys, but I like to understand the process.
    Another look reveals that their OpenSecrets' data is from the FEC.

    In regards to your question, one of the comments suggests that the individual contributions represent earmarks of employees making their contribution via the corporate PAC (as opposed to the PAC determining the recipient).
  4.    #44  
    after embracing in a bear hug the laissez-faire economic policies that have brought our country into economic ruin, McCain talks about his plans for "reform"

    .

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  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Another look reveals that their OpenSecrets' data is from the FEC.

    In regards to your question, one of the comments suggests that the individual contributions represent earmarks of employees making their contribution via the corporate PAC (as opposed to the PAC determining the recipient).
    According to this article, both campaigns are deeply enmeshed in Freddie / Fannie:

    http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.c...0140B077704AAA
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  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    bclinger,

    Anyone who looks at the site you posted can see that it's a partisan activist site. You would have more credibility if you didn't post partisan blogs as "proof". Do you have any documentation of any inappropriate activity?

    I'm also curious as to why you've chosen to ignore the questions I asked a couple of posts above. I'm assuming that you're just conceding the fact that McCain is lying?

    You keep throwing out accusations, yet don't respond to facts when presented against your chosen candidate. To me, that indicates that you have no interest in actually discussing topics.
    bclinger is not interested in the truth... go back 8 months of his posts to understand his agenda....
    01000010 01100001 01101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01000011 01110010 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100001
  7. #47  
    Yes they are, but the Democrats a little bit more. Just goes to show that when they say change, they really do not mean change in the manner most of us think.

    In this case, change normally being "same old politics," but some real changes in life style, taxes, government involvement in the day-to-day life.
  8. #48  
    Lies? the truth? Heck, none of you have said a word about Obama and his association with terrorists, killers, et cetera, that he went looking for their support, not that they looked at him first. What about his cocaine usage and each of you complains bitterly about the "soccer mom." Get a life.


    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    bclinger is not interested in the truth... go back 8 months of his posts to understand his agenda....
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Yes they are, but the Democrats a little bit more. Just goes to show that when they say change, they really do not mean change in the manner most of us think.
    Interesting. Although I don't even think you understand what your point is so I'm not sure that any of us follow you...as usual. So what do "most of us think" Ben? Because I'm frankly wondering how exactly firing the guys that have been in control for the last 8 years does not equate to change. So again, please tell us all what "change" means to you (since you obviously think you represent mainstream voters)?
  10. #50  
    What it amounts to - same old stuff, just a different driver using a different route. Promises made and then forgotten, especial should the different driver and party maintains control (which it will). That is the change we have to look forward to.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Lies? the truth? Heck, none of you have said a word about Obama and his association with terrorists, killers, et cetera, that he went looking for their support, not that they looked at him first. What about his cocaine usage and each of you complains bitterly about the "soccer mom." Get a life.
    OK, I've had enough of your crap Ben. It is time for another session of "deconstructing Ben".

    1. Please define "association" for us all. And I mean in general terms, not specific to Obama. Define association. When you say "associated", do you mean like McCain is associated with lobbyist because his campaign is run by 7 of the top lobbyist in Washington? Or do you mean "associated" like Sarah Palin is to the Alaskan Independence Party (she's not a member, but gave a speech there)?

    2. Please cite for me one substantiated fact that supports your assertion that Obama is "associated" with terrorists.

    3. Please cite for me one substantiated fact that supports your claim that he sought out the support of terrorists.

    4. Other than his admission that he experimented with drugs, please cite one specific fact that substantiates that he uses cocaine. For that matter, even if he tried it (and he admitted he did), why don't you support your claims with evidence that he did more coke than Bush Jr?
    Last edited by moderateinny; 09/16/2008 at 01:17 PM.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Lies? the truth? Heck, none of you have said a word about Obama and his association with terrorists, killers, et cetera, that he went looking for their support, not that they looked at him first. What about his cocaine usage and each of you complains bitterly about the "soccer mom." Get a life.
    Until you respond to the questions in this post, you have no credibility to me. At that time, I asked you to post any documentation of inappropriateness on Obama's part and you can't. I asked you to respond to the confirmed instances of McCain's campaign's lying and you can't / won't.

    Others in this and the other thread seem willing to have a discussion about topics, but you seem to do nothing but attack, without acknowledging any weakness on the part of your candidates.
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  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    What it amounts to - same old stuff, just a different driver using a different route. Promises made and then forgotten, especial should the different driver and party maintains control (which it will). That is the change we have to look forward to.
    Let's take your analogy a little further Ben.

    It's like trusting UPS to ship all of your financial assets on 5 different planes and 3 of the 5 planes just crashed due to poor maintenance since UPS decided to "police itself" in terms of airplane maintenance.

    So what you're saying is that, instead of giving FEDEX a shot, you're gonna stay with UPS because...well, you're hearing that FEDEX has the same maintenance policies, albeit, in your case nothing you hear seems to be of any substance.

    Sorry Ben. I'm going with FEDEX this time around. UPS just crashed landed 3 planes and we only have 2 left. I for one will not be waiting to see if UPS can safely land their last 2 planes based on FUD being spread by UPS trying to save their account. It's time for a new airfreight fleet - call FEDEX!
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Let's take your analogy a little further Ben.

    It's like trusting UPS to ship all of your financial assets on 5 different planes and 3 of the 5 planes just crashed due to poor maintenance since UPS decided to "police itself" in terms of airplane maintenance.

    So what you're saying is that, instead of giving FEDEX a shot, you're gonna stay with UPS because...well, you're hearing that FEDEX has the same maintenance policies, albeit, in your case nothing you hear seems to be of any substance.

    Sorry Ben. I'm going with FEDEX this time around. UPS just crashed landed 3 planes and we only have 2 left. I for one will not be waiting to see if UPS can safely land their last 2 planes based on FUD being spread by UPS trying to save their account. It's time for a new airfreight fleet - call FEDEX!
    Love the analogy....only from my vantage point, UPS and Fedex appear to be subsidiaries of the same conglomerate.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim View Post
    Love the analogy....only from my vantage point, UPS and Fedex appear to be subsidiaries of the same conglomerate.


    OK. So like any conglomerate would do, they should eject/sell off subsidiaries that are failing.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    OK, I've had enough of your crap Ben. It is time for another session of "deconstructing Ben".

    1. Please define "association" for us all. And I mean in general terms, not specific to Obama. Define association. When you say "associated", do you mean like McCain is associated with lobbyist because his campaign is run by 7 of the top lobbyist in Washington? Or do you mean "associated" like Sarah Palin is to the Alaskan Independence Party (she's not a member, but gave a speech there)?

    2. Please cite for me one substantiated fact that supports your assertion that Obama is "associated" with terrorists.

    3. Please cite for me one substantiated fact that supports your claim that he sought out the support of terrorists.

    4. Other than his admission that he experimented with drugs, please cite one specific fact that substantiates that he uses cocaine. For that matter, even if he tried it (and he admitted he did), why don't you support your claims with evidence that he did more coke than Bush Jr?
    I didn't think you could muster a response Ben.

    BTW - since we all know you've been reading entirely too much of Mr. Corsi's sleazy book, "Obama Nation", you can read here what factcheck.org had to say about the book and ironically, some of your ridiculous claims: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...l_hatchet.html
  17.    #57  
    could someone explain to me why it is for all of the vaunted Obama web sophistication -- that its McCain's campaign that been releasing the "net only" ads that get endlessly discussed, repeatedly rerun for free on the shoutcast shows ??

    (those "ads" set the agenda -- and control the news space).

    Has anyone else seen how GOP surrogates are so much better briefed, so much more on message than the dems??

    I saw Guillianni pimping for McCain this weekend --no matter what lie the moderator would catch either McCain or Guillianni in, Guillianni would laugh and relentlessly defend the position, never conceding an inch...
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/16/2008 at 11:20 PM.
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  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post

    Has anyone else seen how GOP surragates are so much better briefed, so much more on message than the dems??
    I'm not sure that's true. After all, today two top advisors put their foot in their respective mouths: one claimed that McCain was responsible for the Blackberry, while the other stated that McCain and Palin couldn't run a major corporation. (Granted, she leveled the same claim against Obama/Biden, but since she's an economic advisor to McCain, it certainly was taken as a slap to McCain).
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  19.    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I'm not sure that's true. After all, today two top advisors put their foot in their respective mouths: one claimed that McCain was responsible for the Blackberry, while the other stated that McCain and Palin couldn't run a major corporation. (Granted, she leveled the same claim against Obama/Biden, but since she's an economic advisor to McCain, it certainly was taken as a slap to McCain).
    yup -- a bad day today (and yesterday) for them

    Carly Fiorina was bad CEO -- and she's aint so good as a surrogate either.

    Beyond that, any week in which the ideas of your campaign's economic theoretician Phil Gram are associated with the global collapse of the world's economic system, has to be at least a little bad...
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  20. #60  
    Barye, did you do any looking in to the 2005 Freddie stuff, such as http://beltwaysnark.com/2008/09/16/j...eddiein-2005/? Did you look to see who blocked it? What did Barney Frank have to do with it? Bunches of links just to Goggle with.

    Bayre, what like did he announce this weekend? I heard about 30 minutes of it.
    Last edited by bclinger; 09/17/2008 at 02:08 AM.
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