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  1.    #1  
    Though this is a bit awkward for even me to fully admit, a politician’s family is potentially a revealing window into the truth of an erstwhile leader. (my love and loyalty for the Empress Josephine, despite a slew of unimportant mistresses, perhaps reveals something even about me...).

    It was sometime during the Fall of last year when I first saw Michele Obama interviewed.

    I immediately liked her.

    Alot.

    I found her clear eyed, intelligent, forthright and unencumbered by artifice or guile.

    She seemed both comfortably competent and unpretentious.

    Many months later I first caught sight of their kids.

    Though BARYE loathes all children -- especially of the human variety -- I reluctantly must admit that they were (and are) the most authentically cute kids of any politician I have ever seen.

    In their appearance on the stage with their mother in Denver, they were a powerful prop in establishing Obama’s image with voters.

    But what do they mean for the prospect of Obama -- or McCain -- becoming President ??

    Young children and the Presidency is an especially interesting niche. During the last fifty years there have been 4 Presidential aspirants with young children:

    Kennedy, Carter, Clinton, and Obama.

    Their presence alongside each communicated a different but important subliminal message about each of these men (and their times).

    JFK’s kids reenforced the message that he was a young vigorous break from an older calcified Eisenhower era. They and his stylishly beautiful wife, spoke of his modernity and virility.

    Carter’s young kid supported the message that Carter was an american everyman -- a suburban middle class dad with common virtues and concerns. (He even sent his daughter to DC public schools during his Presidency).

    Clinton’s Chelsea the other hand, was largely a ghost during his campaign and his Presidency. The Clinton’s honourably chose to entirely exclude her from any potential political exploitation, and worked hard to make sure that Chelsea's life was entirely her own.

    The unfortunate unintended effect of their love for their daughter though, is that it affirmed for many americans a continuing distrust in the Clinton’s authenticity. Americans inability to peer into the Clinton’s family window and empathize with the Clinton’s domestic relationship unfairly and inaccurately made many believe the Clinton’s to be artificial -- and it caused some to see them as phonies to this day.

    junior’s daughters are mediocre party girls, young women who convey a sense of easy entitlement -- with indifferent, lazy, intellects.

    Reagan’s family was completely dysfunctional -- entirely without any of the homespun family values he pretended to have in public.

    Chelsea Clinton in contrast has grown to be a brilliant and poised young woman who is a professional success (and who quietly devotes part of her life to helping others), after having attended Oxford.

    After Clinton’s successful Presidency (leaving office with the nation at peace, a prosperous economy, and a balanced budget) -- voters took less seriously whom they’d vote for, and why.

    Lefties, thinking it wouldn’t make a difference whether Gore or junior was President, voted for Nadir because they wanted to send a message.

    Working class americans voted for junior even though they recognized that Gore was more intelligent, better educated, and more experienced. They felt more comfortable with junior -- that he was someone that they’d like to share a brew with.

    Ironically, the very catastrophes left to us by junior will make people take much more seriously whom they next choose to be the new leader.

    What message is Obama’s family communicating ??

    My sense is that they communicate his genuine decency and intelligence. Perhaps they provide an opening through which people can appreciate his real authenticity.

    But at a time when people are also understandably worried about the dangers in the world -- worried about terrorism, about war, about energy costs, about a cratering american economy -- they also communicate Obama’s youth.

    His family potentially reaffirms unconsciously for some, that he is but a callow fellow -- one who is not yet ready, one who has not yet earned the privilege, of leading and protecting america.

    McCain’s greyness -- his age -- may be something some find more able to trust than Obama. (unfortunately).

    In truth I know little of McCain’s family -- beyond that his infidelity contributed to the destruction of his first marriage.

    And except for a daughter who blogged from his bus, most of his kids are kept in the shadows (a little like Chelsea) -- though I seem to recall that one of McCain’s sons went to Iraq as a marine.

    He has a new wife who is an ultra wealthy heiress (of a fortune built upon the distribution of beer) and that she’s even more conservative than her husband.

    What insights are all of you getting from these candidates families ??
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/29/2008 at 02:19 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  2. #2  
    In a nutshell, what I take away from the Bidens and Obamas are families that are about service to others. What I take away from the McCain’s is a family to be serviced. I hope he picks Romney. It will be an epic battle, the rich versus the middle class.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    In a nutshell, what I take away from the Bidens and Obamas are families that are about service to others. What I take away from the McCain’s is a family to be serviced. I hope he picks Romney. It will be an epic battle, the rich versus the middle class.
    we agree --

    I too wish that Governor Silly Puddy would be their veep choice -- sadly, the GOPers are unfortuntely too practical for some dumb move like that.

    Minnesota's Gov Palenti (?) appears to be mccain's ***** (let's hope that's wrong)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  4. #4  
    Iago, Michelle and care of others? Have you not been keeping up with her career at the University of Chicago, the hospital and the way she cleared out those that could not pay their bills? She also talks down to people and required a lot of coaching before they started letting her talk.

    McCain - did she not go to Georgia on some kind of trip? Are you aware of the organizations she is a member of? I think not.

    Clinton's successful economy? Again, you know that is not correct. The economy at that stage was worse than it is now.

    Just what is wrong with trying to better oneself - are all people with money evil? Isn't the American dream to prosper? When one prospers, when one's investments prosper, other people prosper. Poor people do not employee other poor people.

    Try again, your examples are more of the typical talk with nothing to back it up.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    ...Clinton's successful economy? Again, you know that is not correct. The economy at that stage was worse than it is now.
    ...
    come on Ben -- not even McCain would pretend that was true.

    America's economy was never as prosperous as it was under St. Bill.

    The budget had a surplus -- something most thought unimaginable.

    The dollar was strong, unemployment historically low, and innovation was effervescent.

    Because of the strong tax revenues, balanced budget, and low inflation -- interest rates were organically low -- not forced to unsustainable levels to counteract national economic weakness.

    I could go on for some length describing junior's horrors -- and will be happy to oblige you, perhaps tomorrow ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    come on Ben -- not even McCain would pretend that was true.

    America's economy was never as prosperous as it was under St. Bill.

    The budget had a surplus -- something most thought unimaginable.

    The dollar was strong, unemployment historically low, and innovation was effervescent.

    Because of the strong tax revenues, balanced budget, and low inflation -- interest rates were organically low -- not forced to unsustainable levels to counteract national economic weakness.

    I could go on for some length describing junior's horrors -- and will be happy to oblige you, perhaps tomorrow ...
    Sounds like ben wants to take you off topic since he knows McCain loses the "family" debate against Obama.

    Face it, McCain's cheating on his first wife is no secret, although, not been out a lot yet. The 527s will take care of that in Oct. All American Family Man.... right.

    Not to mention the claim that McCain cheated on his second wife (although, I thought that was weak, but McCain was doing "favors" for her and the people she worked for [she was a lobbyist].)

    All the other stuff about their family seems to fluff, IMO. We don't know these people or their families...

    The fact that Obama's kids are young can mean different things to different people... that is all opinion. I don't even bother with that type of speculation. Behind closed doors obama might be the worse father on the planet. Or maybe the best. Who knows.

    I doubt if many on here even know how many kids McCain has without looking it up on the internet.
    Last edited by theog; 08/29/2008 at 12:40 PM.
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  7. #7  
    Hang McCain then, but what about his wife? When one looks at what she does and has accomplished with her activities, she does stand out better than Michelle. Have any of you looked at Michelle and her activities with the hospital and her success in removing reducing their expenses (she wants everyone to have free health care, but not at that hospital).

    Seriously though, Obama's speech had a couple of good things. I liked the capital gains thing and the health insurance type (congress, you know). But when he said that he would follow bin Ladin to his cave - that McCain would not - seriously - that must mean that Obama wants to invade another country. He spoke about energy but has yet to describe how he would achieve his goals.

    Just words, just speeches. Just the same old political trash.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Hang McCain then, but what about his wife? When one looks at what she does and has accomplished with her activities, she does stand out better than Michelle. Have any of you looked at Michelle and her activities with the hospital and her success in removing reducing their expenses (she wants everyone to have free health care, but not at that hospital).
    Same woman that was "giving it up" to McCain while McCain was married... that woman? Her and McCain are equally guilty.
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  9. #9  
    Neither of you have said a word about what Michelle Obama does that shows the human side of her. What has she accomplished? She has gotten people thrown out of a hospital. What has Cindy McCain accomplished? The list is soooooooooooo much longer.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Neither of you have said a word about what Michelle Obama does that shows the human side of her. What has she accomplished? She has gotten people thrown out of a hospital. What has Cindy McCain accomplished? The list is soooooooooooo much longer.
    Just out of morbid curiosity, where did you get this information about Michell Obama throwing people out of a hospital? You've repeated it many times, but I have no idea of what you're talking. My understanding is that she was the executive director for community affairs at her hospital, so that her role would be to make connections between the hospital and the community, and wouldn't have a role in patient care.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Just out of morbid curiosity, where did you get this information about Michell Obama throwing people out of a hospital? You've repeated it many times, but I have no idea of what you're talking. My understanding is that she was the executive director for community affairs at her hospital, so that her role would be to make connections between the hospital and the community, and wouldn't have a role in patient care.
    He does not have any links to most things he states.

    Ben has put out false information about obama since day one. His racist remarks earlier this year showed his real agenda. He is fun to toy with at times though.... he makes ridiculous comments.
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  12. #12  
    Google it: obama chicago hospital.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Just out of morbid curiosity, where did you get this information about Michell Obama throwing people out of a hospital? You've repeated it many times, but I have no idea of what you're talking. My understanding is that she was the executive director for community affairs at her hospital, so that her role would be to make connections between the hospital and the community, and wouldn't have a role in patient care.
  13. #13  
    Theog, have you even looked? We both know from the statement below that you have not. So, Theog has refused to acknowledge any adverse information about Obama since day one. His racist remarks earlier this year show his intention. he is fun to toy with at times though...he makes ridiculous comments.

    Theog, you are not helping yourself out by refusing to look around and it is very apparent in your reference to Cindy McCain - her accomplishments far exceed those of Michelle Obama.


    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    He does not have any links to most things he states.

    Ben has put out false information about obama since day one. His racist remarks earlier this year showed his real agenda. He is fun to toy with at times though.... he makes ridiculous comments.
  14. #14  
    I did indeed google 'obama chicago hospital'. Even an obvious partison site (which stated its purpose was to "expose liberal lies") says that Michelle Obama helped develop a program to "find neighborhood doctors for low-income people who were flooding the emergency room for basic treatment". The goal was to find medical personnel to help low-income families, so that the ER wasn't their only health care option, and freeing up the ER for higher priority cases.

    Sounds like a positive thing - certainly a far cry from "throwing people out of a hospital.
  15. #15  
    Words and speeches - she supports government health care...the final result is that the hospital did come out ahead; however, in their speeches, not a word about her attempt to remove those who cannot pay their bills. Their stand is for this type of care, their actions are against this type of care. Words. Speeches.

    In addition, did you look at the link: http://campaignspot.nationalreview.c...FiMTlhYmRhN2Y=

    Look who benefited from it. Really, take the time to look through all of the links.

    Her words and actions are not the same and if you read the articles closely, that is the point - nothing more nothing less.
  16. #16  
    This is why they say people shouldn't discuss politics or religion. It should be doubly so on message boards. Nobody's mind is ever changed, and people just get too emotional.

    People's political / religious beliefs are shaped by childhood. The vast majority follow their family's positions & rarely stop to actually consider the other side's opinions.

    It's fascinating that people's need to belong leads to this constant "demonize the other side" philosophy. Demonize the other side & make them appear inhuman / godless / etc.... the most basic step in waging war.

    Haven't you folks here read 1984?
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Haven't you folks here read 1984?
    Funnily enough, I alluded to it in a recent discussion (there were tons of allusions there in a 'simple' mathematical statement).
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #18  
    Not in this case. My goal is to get the to look at Obama in the same light they look at McCain. To state that Obama is qualified is like saying the lion is tame. To state that the governor of Alaska gets no respect from Putin is just amazing - with Obama's record of backing down and respositioning himself, Putin knows the may happen. There is not an issue in Obama's stable that has not been changed when the far left starts screaming its head off. He goes right, middle and then over night, back to the left. He states that Iran is not a threat and the next days says HE HAS ALWAYS...

    Slay the other dude, praise the messiah and bubba, the messiah has his serious issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    This is why they say people shouldn't discuss politics or religion. It should be doubly so on message boards. Nobody's mind is ever changed, and people just get too emotional.

    People's political / religious beliefs are shaped by childhood. The vast majority follow their family's positions & rarely stop to actually consider the other side's opinions.

    It's fascinating that people's need to belong leads to this constant "demonize the other side" philosophy. Demonize the other side & make them appear inhuman / godless / etc.... the most basic step in waging war.

    Haven't you folks here read 1984?
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Her words and actions are not the same and if you read the articles closely, that is the point - nothing more nothing less.
    Why don't you make up a list and refute everything that she says then...

    All you do is make ridicoulous remarks which sound like you read from a local Republican forum to spread over the internet.

    Your argument has very little substance when it comes to obama.

    For example, if I say something negative about a candidate or their vp, I can definitely quote exactly what I talking about from an external source.

    As I said though, at least you have toned down your racist remarks... that is at least a good sign. But those previous remarks from you automatically discredit anything you state now...
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  20. #20  
    Seems that McCain is adding to his horde of women... Palin is now his "soul mate."

    Now if I or anyone else on this board had stated that Palin was McCain's soul mate, I'm sure that we would have been exorcised as being a sexist (especially from ben who has already accused someone of just that... which is a bit ironic considering his comments on obama).


    John McCain, in his first television interview since his shocking vice presidential pick, said that he saw in Sarah Palin "a partner and a soul mate."

    So who needs an intern when you can have a VP?

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonath..._soulmate.html



    Let us recap on McCain's family values....

    Trades in first wife at 43, after first wife is cripple and a "hot and rich" 25-year-old pops into his life.

    Second wife has stroke. McCain Supposedly Cheats on second wife with 30 something lobbyist. Also does favors for her employers.

    Second wife is old. McCain hooks up with a 44-year-old and calls her his "soul mate."

    What a book...
    Last edited by theog; 09/01/2008 at 10:49 AM.
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