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  1. #721  
    "Really...?? In that case, I have to wonder what happened. It's because of Islam that we even have a clue about the Greeks. They (and the Irish) were pretty much the only keepers of the western-world (and I include them in that term) flame for a long time. "

    "...IIRC, even the Ottoman Empire was pretty liberal (That was their swan song!) , at least by modern Islamic standards... Islam is certainly capable of being open-minded, generous, free, and so on.. There has been a shift, I wonder where it happened? Is the "150 years" a reference to something specific, my Islamic history is basically nothing more than a spare-time attempt to get beyond the standard FUD. "

    What happened is that about the time (1760-1800) the rest of the world was deciding how fast they would follow America, France, and Britain into more tolerant forms of representational government (allowing for the common person to have a say) and were open to ideas from outside their own cultures, the Islamic countries chose to follow a different path. They tried resting on past accomplishments (We invented astronomy!) without keeping pace with the modern world. Leaders of these countries who have attempted to "modernize" or "Westernize" their nations have generally been smacked down. I'll edit this when I get home and give you a book title that is relevent to this discussion.
    Fundamentalist Islamic governments are not tolerant (that could be said of any nation that dictates religion), they are by nature intolerant. Don't mix a person practicing the religion of Islam with these nations (People seem to be much more capable of tolerance than countries).They mix religion with nation and can wreak some serious damage on their own people because of this (not forgetting neighboring countries).

    "I think D-R's point is whether or not we have the right to intervene in another country's affairs. The line between cultural imperialism (hell, imperialism proper) and the maintence of human safety & dignity on a planetary scale is, for now anyway, pretty much nonexistant. We've just decided that the latter is more important than the former. Or that's the idea, anyway. Truth is I think dubya is just worried that a nuke-capable Korea could really do some damage to the US, if only by hurting his stock portfolio. "

    I think that if North Korea wants to starve it's people and you think that's their business I won't argue that point. I argue that any responsible country should do anything in it's power to keep weapons of mass destruction away from countries run by egotistical nutjobs who think that they have a God given right to kill people who show them disrespect. You can call that "imperialism", I call it common sense. "Imperialism" to me always meant the Belgian Congo, or what America did in the late 1900s in South America, or what Japan did in China, etc.

    gotta go broom cars...
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  2.    #722  
    Nice to see cynicism isn't dead Then again, if Bill Clinton or Al Bore were in office, I would likely be doing the same thing you guys are doing, being dangerously cynic.







    Funny, I disliked Clinton more than I currently dislike Bush. Something about my tax dollars hard at working earning some chubby liar a knobber just doesn't sit right with me. Especially considering that between strokes, Americans were taking it where the sun don't shine. But, what am I complaining about? We seemed to like it well enough.

















    [quiet voice]um ... Israel stole the land from the Palestinians ... they've been commiting crimes against them for over 30 years ...[/quiet voice]







    [damn loud voice]um ... The Allies stole the land from the Palestinians for Israel... since then, they've been commiting crimes against the Palistinians for over 30 years ...[/damn loud voice]

















    Also remember that at the time Arafat was a terrorist, plain and simple.







    Dare I suggest that G. Washinton was doubtless considered such by the British? Naaah, that wouldn't be a good idea.

















    LET'S GET THE BROWN MEN!!!!

















    I argue that any responsible country should do anything in it's power to keep weapons of mass destruction away from countries run by egotistical nutjobs who think that they have a God given right to kill people who show them disrespect.







    from the state of the union








    States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, [snip] They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred. They could attack our allies or attempt to blackmail the United States.[snip] Evil is real, and it must be opposed. [snip] God is near.







    Paranoia and Jesus Christ go a long way toward killing people - regardless of which side of the line you happen to be standing on, don't you think?
    Last edited by dick-richardson; 01/31/2002 at 06:10 PM.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  3. #723  
    "Paranoia and Jesus Christ go a long way toward killing people - regardless of which side of the line you happen to be standing on, don't you think?"

    I agree 100%.

    "Fundamentalist Islamic governments are not tolerant (that could be said of any nation that dictates religion ), "

    I'm a Christian, but I don't think I'm supposed to force anyony else to become a 'Christian', nor do I think it's right to say, or think, that simply because someone doesn't acknowledge J.C. as his personal savior that they are 'less worthy' of respect, etc. Bringing religion into this is not the way to get this done right, IMHO.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  4. #724  
    Holy cow, or more aptly:

    Secular Cow!!

    DR, BobbyMike, and I all agree:

    Theocracy=Idiocy!!

    Woo Hoo!!
  5. #725  
    "I'll edit this when I get home and give you a book title that is relevent to this discussion. "

    Changed my mind. Decided not to edit my other post. Here's the book I mentioned, What Went Wrong? subtitled Western Impact and Middle Eastern Response, by Bernard Lewis. He also wrote A Middle East Mosaic , The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2,000 Years, and Islam and the West, amongst other books on the Middle East.
    Last edited by BobbyMike; 02/03/2002 at 11:46 PM.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  6. #726  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    What Went Wrong? subtitled Western Impact and Middle Eastern Response, by Bernard Lewis.
    I believe I heard him interviewed on Fresh Air. Smart Guy, IIRC.
  7. #727  
    Originally posted by volcanopele


    Why? We all know the Rams are going to win the Super Bowl. I predict that the score will be 27-17 Rams.

    And even if Marshall Faulk couldn't play, the Rams would still win.

    Jason
    Damn, I'm a Jerk for quoting this... I also note you changed your Avatar....

    ....Looking at the way the two teams played, the Rams didn't deserve to beat the Pats.....

    ....The Cadillac truck thing at the end was annoying, good thing the kid refused to take it--"it's a team car now..."

    ...All I can say is that the Pat's pass coverage was unbelievable. How many times was Warner just sitting in a rapidly deteriorating slot with nobody to pass to...


    ....I can also say that I was desperately unhappy that whats-his-name got caught holding Faulk--we almost had a 24-3 game there....

    yee ha.
  8. #728  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn
    Damn, I'm a Jerk for quoting this... I also note you changed your Avatar....

    ....Looking at the way the two teams played, the Rams didn't deserve to beat the Pats.....

    ....The Cadillac truck thing at the end was annoying, good thing the kid refused to take it--"it's a team car now..."

    ...All I can say is that the Pat's pass coverage was unbelievable. How many times was Warner just sitting in a rapidly deteriorating slot with nobody to pass to...


    ....I can also say that I was desperately unhappy that whats-his-name got caught holding Faulk--we almost had a 24-3 game there....

    yee ha.
    Bah...the fix was in. I wish I'd have posted my prediction when I made it. There was no way in hell that with all of the _Patriot_ism that was being hyped before, during, and after this game that the _Patriot_s were going to lose. Professional football is as fake as Professional wrestling and Mariah Carey lipsyncing the national anthem. ...and all of the commercials pretty much sucked too. ;~~~~
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9.    #729  
    I spent the superbowl settting my computer up for a dual boot and praying for a short shipping time on my handera.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  10. #730  
    Superbowl? Did I miss something? Damn, I have to get that telegraph fixed.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  11. #731  
    Hey I admit it, I was wrong. But at least I had the gull to post my prediction, wrong or not. But at least it was a really good game and not a blow out or something.

    Jason
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
  12. #732  
    Originally posted by volcanopele
    Hey I admit it, I was wrong. But at least I had the gull to post my prediction, wrong or not. But at least it was a really good game and not a blow out or something.
    ...then again, if we give the Pat's the spread, that's another 14, and if we give them that 93 yard fumble return, that's another 7... 41-17 starts to look like something got blown..
  13. #733  
    I've been away, mostly, so time to dredge up old drudge ...

    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    [B]quote:
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [quiet voice]um ... Israel stole the land from the Palestinians ... they've been commiting crimes against them for over 30 years ...[/quiet voice]
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [damn loud voice]um ... The Allies stole the land from the Palestinians for Israel... since then, they've been commiting crimes against the Palistinians for over 30 years ...[/damn loud voice]
    The Allies no longer existed at the time of the 1967 War that I was referring to, but if we really want to reach way back, the whole thing about a Jewish state within the Palestine region was a British idea circa WWI. The UN officially broke the area up into states at the close of WWII. But, the Israelis prevented the full formation of a Palestinian state and have persecuted the original occupiers of the area ever since.

    Happy now?

    sheesh. don't tell me I'm wrong and you're right just because you went back further.
    The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.
  14.    #734  
    Originally posted by Yorick
    Happy now?
    Yeah, that works.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  15. #735  
    yeah well im in a horribly freaken bad mood right now. to start i just got my report card from second quarter back and my parents are pissed. got alot of c's because i cant concentrate on my work. i got an incomplete in english because she never finished correcting my assignments. now that was 3 weeks ago, im still wondering what the hell my grade is. i cant concentrate on my work because of all the people around me. i hate it. i was born and adopted in new york, moved to massachusetts when i was 4 and went to private christian school until this year of 9th grade. i hate most of the kids at this school. before going to the local highschool this year, i played pop warner football for the town the season before and obviously i met kids from the public school. none of them liked me, really and i still dont know why. i met a couple of kids, mostly the cheerleaders, which are **** ugly, and became friends with them. i transitioned from my good friends being in my private school of 120 (kindergarten to 12th grade) with all of 8 kids in the class to being good friends with the cheerleaders and people. i had a dating relationship with a girl for 11 months in which i became "in love" with. that was total horse load. at the start of the school year, i was still friends with all these kids and now im not, why? because i changed. none of them were on the football team i played for, none of them lived in the same area as i did, and none of them really gave any care in me. football was a blast, the people were total @#$%heads. my coach was a prude, and i still hate him to this day. i didnt get the quarterbacking position i wanted, because the kid that did was the son of the local liquor store owner. big shot in town. what was left was kissing **** when the wind got knocked out of him and i had to fill in. i tried giving my all, and it was never scene by anybody. the whole time the coach had me whipped by a leather strap, literally. i did everything he said, and why? i dont even know. i played the positions he wanted me to, i did what he wanted me to do, but never got the credit i believe i deserved. the first play of the last game of the season, i ran back the kickoff for a touchdown. the kids on my team went wild, the girls in the stands went wild. and everybody screamed my name, wether it was skivi the girls call me or my real name schiavi....but the next moth@#%$@#ing day, not one of the kids on my team acknowledged me at all. hell, none of them even talked to me. the girls do, or did, but i never became great friends like the rest of them had, with anybody. during the whole season me and a couple of kids had to tag along to the varsity games to help out with water, stats and medical. yet another reason i have a brown nose. who came with us? mr big named quarterback, his best friend mr big named fullback and me....me who...me NOBODY. i just dont get it....one day im on the field and everyones screaming my name, either one...and they all love me. the next day, when i dont have a helmet on, they dont even notice me. im not noticed at that school and definatly not cared for by anybody there. now im sitting here, listening to old friends screaming at me about how im being used by my "new friends"..."why havent you found your clique yet, how come you dont sit with kids in the morning, how come you eat lunch alone?" and i brought it up to one girl i know, and she said not to listen to them...but its pretty damn hard not to, when you sit at home friday night, saturday night, and sunday night, never getting invited to go anywhere, with anyone...even though i go to their school, im definatly not important at all. i sit here listening to marilyn manson and popping bb gun pellets into pieces of paper to vent. i dont know what the hell has happened to me but i definatly dont want to stay here. im going to bed
  16. #736  
    i can add a lot more, like me getting suspended...but im going to spare you. now im going to bed
  17. #737  
    See. This is the problem with the high school system in America. The bar for social development is set way too low. Most 9th and 10th graders are at a place in their development where they ought to be in a social environment more like college, with independence, freedom, and self-guided decisions. Drakion here is certainly ready. Instead, he's stuck in a system designed for the social growth of a person half his age. Everybody involved in his rant would act a lot more maturely if they were given a social structure that didn't give benefits to those who act immaturely (well, maybe not the coach. ).

    sigh. don't worry, drakion, it's not just you...

    ..but Marilyn Manson? Come on, you can do better than that. come home to Trent Reznor. Reach back to old school metallica (pre black album). Try a little old school Alice n Chains. and if you dare, show these nu-metal posers what a real angry pop rocker can do with some primitive techno beats and a little bit of rhyme. Yes, that's right, get yourself a copy of Faith No More's Angel Dust, play "be Aggressive," and get some gd catharsis.

    and of course, a small victory: "if i speak at one constant volume at one constant pitch at one constant rhythm right into your ear, you still won't hear, you still won't hear, you still won't hear..."
  18. #738  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn
    ..but Marilyn Manson? Come on, you can do better than that. come home to Trent Reznor.
    I'm with drakion .. I'd rather listen to Manson. Which is actually saying something, because I couldn't stand it the first few years he was around, but having heard more of a body of his work, pretty decent. Reznor, on the other hand, I find to be blah.

    Reach back to old school metallica (pre black album).
    oh yeah .. "Master of Puppets." That takes me back ...
    The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.
  19.    #739  
    Inane. No 's', Drakion. We're going to put you into remedial English with mirandu.

    And what's with all this angry music? How 'bout some social reform, hippie style?
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  20. #740  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn
    [...] ..but Marilyn Manson? Come on, you can do better than that.
    I watched the VH1 show on him last night. It was rather funny, and confirmed nearly every theory I ever had about him.
    come home to Trent Reznor.
    He's just as sad.
    Reach back to old school metallica (pre black album).
    That's closer to real.
    Try a little old school Alice n Chains.
    'old school Alice in Chains'? Is that like 'old school Britney Spears'?
    and if you dare, show these nu-metal posers what a real angry pop rocker can do with some primitive techno beats and a little bit of rhyme. Yes, that's right, get yourself a copy of Faith No More's Angel Dust, play "be Aggressive," and get some gd catharsis.
    Bah..."Institutionalized" puts them all to rest. "All I wanted was a Pepsi!"
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...

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