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  1. #621  
    No more than an oversimplification does.

    different point, but the reason I quoted the Phaedo is that the causal explanation of function is the most important, or essential, part of the explanation. In simpler terms, the physical explanation is the "how," the function (as I'm using the word) is the "why." In other words, I'm contending that the killing function isn't just part of a complex explanation of the gun's many functions that may be dropped out via oversimplification, but the essential part without which you're not really talking about a gun anymore.

    Besides that quote isn't applicable to a _thing_. It is applicable to a _being_. To carry the analogy, you'd be talking about banning larynxes because some people shouted hateful phrases with them.

    The analogy only carries if larynxes are designed to shout hateful phrases, and that all other uses of said larynx are merely derivations of that original design.

    ...Then again, evolutionarily speaking, I wouldn't be surprised if the first function of the larynx was to scare away predators...

    ...Hey!, that's something, evolution. Have we got any creationists in the house?
  2. #622  
    Originally posted by volcanopele
    Well I believe in the chaos theory. The high number of replies in this thread is largely due to a mosquito biting a young child in Burkino Faso last year.
    Damn, I was almost sure that it was the tsetse fly in Burundi last month.
    Have you had your P-Branes today?
    Lemme check with Buckaroo, monkey-boy.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  3. #623  
    "Well I believe in the chaos theory. The high number of replies in this thread is largely due to a mosquito biting a young child in Burkino Faso last year. "

    Actually this thread is happening because 17 years ago I asked my C.O. his permission to speak freely.

    (It's ALL about ME!)
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  4. #624  
    Originally posted by srwdc1
    well done toby, you managed to cite both Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings in one post!
    okay, I got the LOTR ref but I thought the other thing was about the Scottish Play.
    The light at the end of your tunnel has been disconnected due to non-payment. Please remit funds immediately for restoration of hope.
  5. #625  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn


    ...Hey!, that's something, evolution. Have we got any creationists in the house?
    I am not a creationist but I will say that a great page to check out that debunks creationist Kent Hovind:
    http://www.nmsr.org/HOVIND.HTM

    Jason
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
  6. #626  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    "Well I believe in the chaos theory. The high number of replies in this thread is largely due to a mosquito biting a young child in Burkino Faso last year. "

    Actually this thread is happening because 17 years ago I asked my C.O. his permission to speak freely.

    (It's ALL about ME!)
    He never told you to stop speaking freely ?!? Wow, why didn't you start this when you were still in the military. That is an obvious mandate to speak your mind when ever you darn well feel like it.
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
  7. #627  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn
    different point, but the reason I quoted the Phaedo is that the causal explanation of function is the most important, or essential, part of the explanation.
    To some dead Greek philosopher. Why should I take the opinions of that Dead White Guy anymore seriously than any other?
    In simpler terms, the physical explanation is the "how," the function (as I'm using the word) is the "why." In other words, I'm contending that the killing function isn't just part of a complex explanation of the gun's many functions that may be dropped out via oversimplification, but the essential part without which you're not really talking about a gun anymore.
    And I'm contending that if the killing function isn't used or really even there (a BB gun can't kill much, but they can still be a deterrent because they can hurt like hell), then it isn't the primary function. I guarantee you that I couldn't kill you (without some really regular practice) with a .22 derringer, but if you were coming at me and I pulled one, you'd at least pause.[B][QUOTE]The analogy only carries if larynxes are designed to shout hateful phrases, and that all other uses of said larynx are merely derivations of that original design.[B][QUOTE]They're designed to shout phrases (or emit any sound). Which particular phrases are shouted is another matter. Much like even if guns were solely designed to kill, the particular people they kill or don't kill is another matter.
    ...Then again, evolutionarily speaking, I wouldn't be surprised if the first function of the larynx was to scare away predators...
    No, we can only assume that the primary function was to attract one's mother to entice her into sex.
    ...Hey!, that's something, evolution. Have we got any creationists in the house?
    Allah's peace be with you.

    edit: fixed a formatting bug
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  8. #628  
    Originally posted by Yorick
    okay, I got the LOTR ref but I thought the other thing was about the Scottish Play.
    The 'He who must not be named' reference was Harry Potter.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #629  
    Originally posted by Toby, but quoted out of order because I feel like it
    And I'm contending that if the killing function isn't used or really even there
    and I'm contending that it is...
    To some dead Greek philosopher. Why should I take the opinions of that Dead White Guy anymore seriously than any other?
    You shouldn't. I was using it implicitly to forward a system of beliefs backing my claim that there are certain tools whose identity as tools are bound up with their function, and that guns are just those tools. I don't think we're going to get anywhere on this one.

    Whump<----(the sound of me dropping it.)

    No, we can only assume that the primary function was to attract one's mother to entice her into sex.

    Well, obviously. sheesh, we all know that one.

    Allah's peace be with you.
    no thanks, I'll take somebody else's peace. ...on second thought, we should just leave that topic alone...thanks for the peace.

    edit: fixed a formatting bug
    Sure. Really what happened is you broke down and agreed with me, then changed your mind when you discovered that I'm actually a supercomputer based on Herbert Hoover's brain and hell-bent on taking your guns away from you.
  10. #630  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn

    Sure. Really what happened is you broke down and agreed with me, then changed your mind when you discovered that I'm actually a supercomputer based on Herbert Hoover's brain and hell-bent on taking your guns away from you.
    Wasn't Herbert Hoover a Republican and therefore wanted to allow people to protect themselves. Plus, he wanted people to support themselves and help themselves. That's why he lost the 1932 election. However, you might be based on Janet Reno's brain. That I would believe
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
  11. #631  
    Originally posted by volcanopele
    Wasn't Herbert Hoover a Republican and therefore wanted to allow people to protect themselves. Plus, he wanted people to support themselves and help themselves. That's why he lost the 1932 election. However, you might be based on Janet Reno's brain. That I would believe
    oh yeah, sure, but all that was a front. Hoover was really a communist at heart.
  12. #632  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn

    oh yeah, sure, but all that was a front. Hoover was really a communist at heart.
    Hoover wasn't a communist. You are thinking of Roosevelt.
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
  13. #633  
    "He never told you to stop speaking freely ?!? Wow, why didn't you start this when you were still in the military. That is an obvious mandate to speak your mind when ever you darn well feel like it."


    No, I proceeded to call him an a**hole and he stopped speaking to me. He never rescinded that permission to speak freely, but it only applied to when I talked to him anyway.

    Also when I was in the military Reagan was the President and I had an Atari 520ST w/o a modem. I also had a M16, a S&W 686 .357, a G.I. .45, a Remington 12 Gauge (riot control) and a much shorter fuse.

    By Regulation I wasn't allowed to converse with people like youse guys anyway.

    Now I am a free humanoid and I love everybody!

    Gimme a hug!
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  14. #634  
    Originally posted by volcanopele
    Hoover wasn't a communist. You are thinking of Roosevelt.
    Nope. Hoover was most definitely a communist. He just pretended to persecute the red menace when in reality he went home, slipped on a pair of pantyhose, and dreamt of the day when the proletariat would rise up and make institutions like the CIA melt away into brotherly comradeship--much in the way that the KGB did in the USSR.

    And Roosevelt was a fascist. New Deal? More like secret plot to create an anti-socialist state under the rule of his iron fist.
  15. #635  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn

    Nope. Hoover was most definitely a communist. He just pretended to persecute the red menace when in reality he went home, slipped on a pair of pantyhose, and dreamt of the day when the proletariat would rise up and make institutions like the CIA melt away into brotherly comradeship--much in the way that the KGB did in the USSR.

    And Roosevelt was a fascist. New Deal? More like secret plot to create an anti-socialist state under the rule of his iron fist.
    Ok, I see. You are confusing Herbert Hoover, president from 1929 to 1933, and J. Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI for 40 years.

    And yes, Roosevelt was a dictator but a communist dictator, not fascist. Either way the result for the common people is usually the same.
    Did you just go near a burning hot river of lava or are you just happy to see me?
  16.    #636  
    What are the odds George Washington would win an election today? What are the odds he would want to lead a nation of children who cry to the government for everything from food and shelter to protection from the boogie man?

    I pledge allegience to the flag of the Unequivocal Socialist America...
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  17. #637  
    Originally posted by volcanopele
    Ok, I see. You are confusing Herbert Hoover, president from 1929 to 1933, and J. Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI for 40 years.
    Actually, they're the same communist, red-loving guy. Herbert, after finishing up his presidency, saw the direction the country was heading, and went into hiding. He had experimental surgery done on himself to change his appearance and voice, and came back as J. Edgar.

    And yes, Roosevelt was a dictator but a communist dictator, not fascist. Either way the result for the common people is usually the same.
    Nope. Fascist all the way. Completely hell-bent on making all people subsurvient to him instead of able to survive on his own. He only pretended to like socialism, really he was putting it forth in an attempt to get people to violenty reject it so he could invoke martial law and become supreme dictator. You see, Roosevelt wanted to be a dictator, he didn't believe in America at all. Truth be told, he kept a picture of Mussolini in a locket he wore about his neck at all times.
  18. #638  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    What are the odds George Washington would win an election today? What are the odds he would want to lead a nation of children who cry to the government for everything from food and shelter to protection from the boogie man?

    I pledge allegience to the flag of the Unequivocal Socialist America...
    beh... socialism ain't so bad, works very well for all them nordic folk.

    Washington? He was a successful general and commanded the presence of any room he entered. He would have a solid chance---expect that he railed against the two party system and didn't believe that it would be good for America, so he would probably lose because he wouldn't have a money-machine behind him. then again, if we had some real campaign finance laws, he'd be in like Flynt (or is it just Flynn.. I can never remember)

    ...and this political post is serious, unlike my previeous few (paying attention Volcano? )

    ...and now that I'm being serious---anybody who calls Roosevelt a dictator and isn't being wildly hilarious (as I am ) needs a swift kick to the head.
  19. #639  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn
    and I'm contending that it is...
    No more than Motrin is still only a PMS relief medication or Minoxidil is still only a heart medication.
    Sure. Really what happened is you broke down and agreed with me, then changed your mind when you discovered that I'm actually a supercomputer based on Herbert Hoover's brain and hell-bent on taking your guns away from you.
    You can try, but you'd better bring some bigger guns. ;~~~
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20. #640  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn
    Nope. Hoover was most definitely a communist. He just pretended to persecute the red menace when in reality he went home, slipped on a pair of pantyhose, and dreamt of the day when the proletariat would rise up and make institutions like the CIA melt away into brotherly comradeship--much in the way that the KGB did in the USSR.
    Bah... that was J. Edgar Hoover.
    And Roosevelt was a fascist. New Deal? More like secret plot to create an anti-socialist state under the rule of his iron fist.
    He only offered the chains. People couldn't wait to put them on. If it weren't for him, the democrats likely wouldn't enjoy the minority support they do.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...

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