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  1. #381  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    you need to give me your money so that there's one less thing to come between us.
    why'n'cha take a few of these televangelists home, they seem to have a lot o money ...
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  2.    #382  
    Originally posted by Yorick
    why'n'cha take a few of these televangelists home, they seem to have a lot o money ...
    They don't work for me. You'll have to ask dietrichbohn about them.

    I've decided to sell religious relics and indulgences to ease people out of their bondage to money. We'll start with Jesus' loincloth for $20. Any takers?
    Last edited by dick-richardson; 08/17/2001 at 12:19 AM.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  3. #383  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    They don't work for me. You'll have to ask dietrichbohn about them.
    Televangelists? Sorry, you can't pawn them off on me. You started this idiotic religion and worship of something higher thing, you have to deal with it. I suggested we just let people live for themselves and their wants and needs, but nooooo big mister god had to have people licking his feet like a needy little child celebrity. So now you've got a power structure set up. It's not my fault that some of your creations are taking advantage of it, I didn't want the set-up in the first place.
  4. #384  
    Too bad I missed out on the discussion. It started off quite well the first few days with people actually stating their opinions of God and religion. I would have enjoyed sharing my opinions when it was a true discussion about God. My how the topic has digressed. Oh well, maybe another religion based thread will start up and people will once again take the matter of religion, or spirituality, or whatever you want to call it seriously as we should. To me, religion is the most important thing in my life. Knowing that God lives, and that he loves me, and that he wants all of us (his children) to grow and become like him influences every decision I make in life. I feel as though it is important to share our feelings about God, and to listen to what others feel and think. I hope that the conversation picks back up how it began. There were many interesting ideas, and beliefs. I wish I could have shared some of my opinions, but the topic seems to have changed. Maybe it will come up again, and I will be able to participate.
  5. #385  
    Originally posted by chuckster
    Too bad I missed out on the discussion. It started off quite well the first few days with people actually stating their opinions of God and religion. I would have enjoyed sharing my opinions when it was a true discussion about God. My how the topic has digressed. Oh well, maybe another religion based thread will start up and people will once again take the matter of religion, or spirituality, or whatever you want to call it seriously as we should.
    Contrary to their appearance, 90% of my posts in this thread have been deadly serious. See that last one again.
  6. #386  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
    LOL!! That post was just about perfect, and in so many ways....

    ...I want to add to it, comment on it, or something, but it's too good on it's own... this calling attention to it even seems to be too much...

    ...ack...ack...Literary theory....Intentional Fallacy...Let the Page speak...My head...My head....
  7. #387  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn


    Contrary to their appearance, 90% of my posts in this thread have been deadly serious. See that last one again.

    Although I disagree with many of your opinions (not all), I have noticed that you have been quite serious, as have the majority of those participating in the thread. I guess the most recent comments, have been, in my opinion, sacrilegious, and I took offence.
  8. #388  
    Originally posted by chuckster
    I guess the most recent comments, have been, in my opinion, sacrilegious, and I took offence.
    I emphathize with your feeling of sacrilege, because that's how most religion makes me feel on an almost daily basis. I don't aplogize, however... It's tough to explain...

    Got it: Think of the justification for Mel Brook's The Producers. Ok?.. Now, replace "Hitler" with "the idea of god." That's how I feel.
  9. #389  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn


    I don't aplogize, however... It's tough to explain...
    I wasn't looking for an apology. I just thought I should state how I felt is all.



    Got it: Think of the justification for Mel Brook's The Producers. Ok?.. Now, replace "Hitler" with "the idea of god." That's how I feel.
    Okay, that in a twisted way makes a little bit of sense. I don't agree with you, but at least it lets me see your perspective and that makes a lot more of your previous comments a little more meaningfull as well.
  10.    #390  
    Originally posted by dietrichbohn
    LOL!! That post was just about perfect, and in so many ways....
    I knew you'd like that one.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  11.    #391  
    Originally posted by chuckster
    Oh well, maybe another religion based thread will start up
    Or you can post your opinions in this one, as you seem to have.
    and people will once again take the matter of religion, or spirituality, or whatever you want to call it seriously as we should.
    Why should we? We're not going to see eye-to-eye on this one, I guarantee it.
    To me, religion is the most important thing in my life.
    To me, it's an overbloated organization that seeks its own ends in almost everything and uses guilt to achieve them. In my opinion, it is worthy only of ridicule.

    That's rather harsh, I know. A lot of good has been done by religion, that is true. But there is no need for a beaurocracy to fulfill a religion's stated purpose.

    Knowing that God lives, and that he loves me, and that he wants all of us (his children) to grow and become like him influences every decision I make in life.
    Don't confuse God with religion, please. That's where I take offense.
    I feel as though it is important to share our feelings about God, and to listen to what others feel and think.
    I agree.
    I hope that the conversation picks back up how it began. There were many interesting ideas, and beliefs. I wish I could have shared some of my opinions, but the topic seems to have changed. Maybe it will come up again, and I will be able to participate.
    Seems to have done so already. And you can participate regardless.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  12. #392  
    Originally posted by ****-richardson


    Why should we? We're not going to see eye-to-eye on this one, I guarantee it.

    I don't think we need to see things eye-to-eye in order to have a serious discussion. I perfer to talk with those of different beliefs than my own. It gives me the opportunity to explain what I feel, and also to see another point of view.



    To me, it's an overbloated organization that seeks its own ends in almost everything and uses guilt to achieve them. In my opinion, it is worthy only of ridicule.

    That's rather harsh, I know. A lot of good has been done by religion, that is true. But there is no need for a beaurocracy to fulfill a religion's stated purpose.
    okay, this is where we don't see eye-to-eye. I do however agree that if a religion is organized with the purpose to "seek out it's own ends", than it is an evil organization founded by the devil himself! There are however churches that do not do that.

    I feel as though organized religion in necessary, for many reasons. First of all, a group is stronger than an individual. When those of the same faith can support each other, each individual in the group is edified, and strengthend. Without organized religion, people would not be able to recieve the necessary ordanances to obtain salvation. Christ said to Nicodemus, "Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Baptism is required for salvation. Without organized religion, one cannot receive it. I could probably talk for hours just about that. How could a person take the sacrament or communion as others might call it? All of these things can be done because of organized religion.

    I am not trying to convince you that I am right, I just want to express my feelings.



    Don't confuse God with religion, please. That's where I take offense.

    I am sorry if it appeared as though I confused the two. I know the difference. In my opinion however, I can't have one without the other.
  13. #393  
    Originally posted by chuckster
    My how the topic has digressed.

    Since it's called "Inane Ramblings" we're technically always on topic ...


    If we're born "in God's image" (as some would have us believe) then how can we "grow and become like him" ? Are we not already like him?
    although d-r seems to have the role locked up anyway.
    6 billion plus kids .. that's a lotta mouths to feed ...
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  14. #394  
    Originally posted by Yorick


    If we're born "in God's image" (as some would have us believe) then how can we "grow and become like him" ? Are we not already like him?
    Well, I believe that we are physically like him. We were created in his image. I also believe that we are here to grow and become spiritually and mentally more like him. God is perfect, and we have the ability to perfect ourselves through Christ. Jesus said that we are to "be perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect." That is what we are striving for. That is why we are here. Not just to have a physical body that, after we are resurrected will be perfect (as is the Father's), but to gorw to be like him in every way. Obviously, we are not perfect now, but we have the potential to become so.
    Last edited by chuckster; 08/17/2001 at 01:12 PM.
  15. #395  
    "." Baptism is required for salvation. Without organized religion, one cannot receive it."

    Where does it say that in the Bible?

    John baptised Jesus, and he was in no way part of an "organized religion".
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  16. #396  
    Originally posted by chuckster
    Well, I believe that we are physically like him. We were created in his image.
    ya mean God started out looking like a chicken?

    Jesus said that we are to "be perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect." That is what we are striving for. That is why we are here.
    but I don't want to be perfect. My imperfections make me who I am. Otherwise I'm just another sentient mass of cells, no different from anyone else.

    Not just to have a physical body that, after we are resurrected will be perfect (as is the Father's),
    crud. I was hoping to come back as a fox next time. Tho a bunny wabbit would be nice.
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  17. #397  
    Originally posted by chuckster


    okay, this is where we don't see eye-to-eye. I do however agree that if a religion is organized with the purpose to "seek out it's own ends", than it is an evil organization founded by the devil himself! There are however churches that do not do that.

    I feel as though organized religion in necessary, for many reasons. First of all, a group is stronger than an individual. When those of the same faith can support each other, each individual in the group is edified, and strengthend. Without organized religion, people would not be able to recieve the necessary ordanances to obtain salvation. Christ said to Nicodemus, "Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Baptism is required for salvation. Without organized religion, one cannot receive it. I could probably talk for hours just about that. How could a person take the sacrament or communion as others might call it? All of these things can be done because of organized religion.
    I am a Christian. Pure and simple. I am not part of any "Organized Religion". I believe the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and believe that it was all inspired by God. To me, it is the very essence of God. Every word is God's thoughts manifested onto paper into the written word.

    However, I do not believe that God ever wanted Organized Religion. In fact, God has never spoken to an Organization. The only time God ever deals with a group is when dealing with Israel. He treats all Gentiles as Individuals. You can join all the Organizations you want to and that will not get you any closer to heaven. In fact, Scripture teaches throughout the Book of Revelation that it is the very Organized Religions that reject God. They are the ones that cast God out, in favor of their man made Creeds and Dogmas. Organized Religion has done nothing but corrupt the Word of God and virtually every Doctrine in the Bible.

    As for Baptism. I do believe that Baptism, under the Commandment of Acts 2:38, is imperative to a persons relationship with God. I believe that one must fulfill this commandment just as one must participate in communion and foot washing. I believe one must Tithe. However, Organized Religion has nothing to do with this. I do these things because the Word of God says so, not because of the Baptists, Methodists or any other Organization. You say that one must be Baptized to be saved, and I disagree.

    A person must be Sanctified, Justified and Baptized in the Holy Spirit to be truly born again.

    Look at it this way. Lets say you find an old dirty bottle. You pick it up and put it in your pocket. You have saved it, or sanctified it. Now lets say you take it home and clean it up so it looks brand new. Now you have justified it. But before you can get anything out of it, you have to fill it. That is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It takes all three to complete the process.

    That is what is so wrong with the world today. People walk around Sanctified or Justified, or both, but very, very few have the Holy Spirit. They have an understanding of who God is, and know Jesus was His Son. They may even clean up the outside. However, until the Holy Ghost gets hold, they will never live a life that lines up with God's Word.
    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. JOHN 14:2
  18. #398  
    Originally posted by GSR13
    they will never live a life that lines up with God's Word.
    Doan wanna. I'm responsible for myself and my actions and statements. I don't knowingly or intentionally lie, cheat, steal, hurt others, or incite riots. Some days I even feel like I accomplished something of value. I would rather not be beholden to an idea.
    Is that wrong?

    (and, now that I'm made my latest semi-incendiary-sounding statements, [Snagglepuss]exit, stage left even! [/Snagglepuss])
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  19.    #399  
    Originally posted by Yorick
    ...although d-r seems to have the role locked up anyway...
    I'll let you in on a little secret. I've been talking to Jesus all my life.
    Last edited by dick-richardson; 08/18/2001 at 12:40 AM.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  20. #400  
    Originally posted by GSR13

    A person must be Sanctified, Justified and Baptized in the Holy Spirit to be truly born again.

    Look at it this way. Lets say you find an old dirty bottle. You pick it up and put it in your pocket. You have saved it, or sanctified it. Now lets say you take it home and clean it up so it looks brand new. Now you have justified it. But before you can get anything out of it, you have to fill it. That is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It takes all three to complete the process.

    That is what is so wrong with the world today. People walk around Sanctified or Justified, or both, but very, very few have the Holy Spirit. They have an understanding of who God is, and know Jesus was His Son. They may even clean up the outside. However, until the Holy Ghost gets hold, they will never live a life that lines up with God's Word.
    well, I agree that we need to repent, be baptized, and then receive the Holy Ghost. All three are needed. But who has the authority to baptize? How does one receive the Holy Ghost? A man cannot take upon himself the authority to act in God's name (the priesthood). There are many instances in the Bible where it is made clear that one must have this authority. One such example is found in Acts 19: 1-5. In this instance, Paul finds a group of people who had previously been baptized. When he found out that they had not heard of the Holy Ghost, he questioned the authority used in their baptism, and thus rebaptizes them with the proper authority. This is another essential reason why organized religion is needed. This authority should not be given based on the education that a person has receive, but I believe that a man must be "called of God, by those who are in authority". Then he may receive the priesthood, and act in God's name.

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