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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I was a bit excited about mccain when he first started... now I think I've leaned so far obama I can't go back to mccain.
    I don't think I was ever excited about McCain--not even as an opponent to Obama.

    To be honest, we really have two democrats in the running....
    Pretty much sums it up.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    "....however, continuing to bring up Obama's associations, his constant misspeaks, his professing of ignorance about the people around him, everyone having to speak for him, his wife and her comments, the campaign's efforts to silence her and make her more likable, the outright lies from Whoopie and The View, the lack of hard questions both are asked, Obama's insistence that asking anything an explanation means the person asking is racist, DA, the list goes on and is ignored by the press. When people look at him and what he says and stands for, it is a totally different light that comes on......"

    -bclinger.


    Yep. Definitely valid concerns, I'd say. There's a lot of racial anger just below the surface among many within obama's camp. (his wife and wright are exhibits a and b ) People want to talk about racism against Obama? Just look at the divisiveness exuding from those in HIS corner. THAT is racism. Yet no one wants to examine that. There's no way someone with supporters like that is getting my vote. No way in hell.

    " whitey's greed " and all that mess.

    let see, which is more dangerous here? whitey's greed or african american anger?

    You choose.
    You might want to read his book before you comment on any black man anger.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Yep. I also noted the changes there with McCain and Crist. McCain needs to work on his base - nobody is excited by him.
    I donated $20 to McCain's campaign in 2000. That's when he REALLY was on the Straight Talk Express. Since then he's fallen off that path, particularly in the run up to this election.
  4. #64  
    At least he is saying something to the effect of let's do something. Had we done something 10 years ago instead of Clinton vetoing the oil drilling, we would not be in the position we are now. Obama's statement that nothing good will come from the exploration just does not make sense. The gasoline situation affects every person in this country, whether that person drives or not. As the price of fuel climbs, so does everything around us, from fuel, electricity, transportation, heating oil, et cetera. We have sat far to many years and with our resources, our situation is deplorable.

    Also, earlier we mumbled something about oil company profits. The oil companies (Exxon for instance) has an earning of about 8.5% on the dollar. Most companies hit around 20% or so. When you look at the size of the company ($500,000,000,000 company), a return of 8.5% is not too hot. With Congress not able to handle its own cafeteria, why should we think it can handle a fuel company. Nationalization bites. England nationalized its health care years ago and is moving back toward privatization - it did not work. Canada is moving back to a smaller extent - it did not work.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Obama's statement that nothing good will come from the exploration just does not make sense.
    Are you even listening to what obama is saying?

    You may have a difference of opinion, but to say what he is saying does not make any sense, does not make any sense.
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  6. #66  
    Then not doing anything other than taxing the oil companies will not reduce the price of oil. We have the resources and our leadership either does nothing (Bush) or wants to tax more (Obama). Heck, at least now we have some momentum and should Obama make it the the White House, the progress stops. Will that affect you? It sure will.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Then not doing anything other than taxing the oil companies will not reduce the price of oil. We have the resources and our leadership either does nothing (Bush) or wants to tax more (Obama). Heck, at least now we have some momentum and should Obama make it the the White House, the progress stops. Will that affect you? It sure will.
    Well given the fact that Americans are driving increasingly less the past several months, I would expect this magic "supply and demand" theory to kick in soon and for prices to start lowering.

    Unless, ..... hmmmmm, maybe there's something other than demand jacking up the price, thus increasing supply would do nothing to lower the costs to the end consumer.
    Last edited by daThomas; 06/21/2008 at 03:22 PM.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Then not doing anything other than taxing the oil companies will not reduce the price of oil. We have the resources and our leadership either does nothing (Bush) or wants to tax more (Obama). Heck, at least now we have some momentum and should Obama make it the the White House, the progress stops. Will that affect you? It sure will.
    Again, have you read Obama's economic or energy package? Have you even bothered to listen to his ideas? Obama wants to do more than just "tax." (Whatever that means.)

    Either way it goes (not matter which candidate) we need a long-term plan.

    I can understand where each one is going... there are faults in each argument and gains on each for the long-term success....
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  9. #69  
    The prices never went down in Europe. Take a look here: http://shagya-blog.blogspot.com/2008...gland-and.html. Tax, tax, tax - same thing Obama has stated - he will tax. Add to that the Cap and Trade philosophy he and McCain want, which will add a minimum of $1.50 to a gallon of gas. Add to that the winter months coming up. It will never go down if we do nothing about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Well given the fact that Americans are driving increasingly less the past several months, I would expect this magic "supply and demand" theory to kick in soon and for prices to start lowering.

    Unless, ..... hmmmmm, maybe there's something other than demand jacking up the price, thus increasing supply would do nothing to lower the costs to the end consumer.
  10. #70  
    Theog, I have listened and read his ideas. His "fix" is long-term in the distant future and built upon "what if." We do not live in a "what if" world and what is needed is not in the distant future, it is now. Take care of now and the future will take care of itself. When I speak of tax, it is his "windfall taxes" plan that will hurt us - I am positive many of us are aware that bunches of retirement systems are invested heavily in oil. Can you afford to pay heavy taxes on your retirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Again, have you read Obama's economic or energy package? Have you even bothered to listen to his ideas? Obama wants to do more than just "tax." (Whatever that means.)

    Either way it goes (not matter which candidate) we need a long-term plan.

    I can understand where each one is going... there are faults in each argument and gains on each for the long-term success....
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I speak of tax, it is his "windfall taxes" plan that will hurt us - I am positive many of us are aware that bunches of retirement systems are invested heavily in oil. Can you afford to pay heavy taxes on your retirement.
    Well, if you are heavily invested in oil, get out now.

    Of course, if you are worried about that, your retirement planner/investor should be working it out with you. But, no, I'm not worried if obama gets into office... nor am I worried if mccain gets into office. I can work around any system they put into place.

    Unfortunately, you don't mention what obama does for retirees. You only mention how "something" could hurt them.

    Ok... got it... I think.

    You need to read obama's plan again and come back.... Obviously you missed some stuff if that is all you got out of his plan.

    And mccain? I guess you think the "summer gas tax holiday" is a good idea? Oddly enough that was all I saw on McCain's site... outside of stop filling the reserve... which won't do much. I know he said something about building nuclear reactors (not on his site)... obama has said he supports the idea once we can figure out where to store the material once it is used (on his site)...

    I understand that solutions are needed now, but putting a band aid on every issue is exactly how we got here. Sooner or later we need to start balancing our budget and paying down debt.

    This fuel issue will take decades to fix... obama has some good ideas to get us there.... mccain has some similar ideas. Brazil is a good study for what we could do... it will take a while.
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  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I understand that solutions are needed now, but putting a band aid on every issue is exactly how we got here. Sooner or later we need to start balancing our budget and paying down debt.

    This fuel issue will take decades to fix... obama has some good ideas to get us there.... mccain has some similar ideas. Brazil is a good study for what we could do... it will take a while.
    Exactly. This "more of the same" attitude is very irritating. I for one am a believer in some aspects of the "peak oil" theory. I don't think civilization will come to a crash, because I believe its easily in our ability to make a transition to other sources of energy, but if this head-in-the-sand attitude continues things may turn out a lot worse.

    Surur
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    The prices never went down in Europe. Take a look here: http://shagya-blog.blogspot.com/2008...gland-and.html. Tax, tax, tax - same thing Obama has stated - he will tax. Add to that the Cap and Trade philosophy he and McCain want, which will add a minimum of $1.50 to a gallon of gas. Add to that the winter months coming up. It will never go down if we do nothing about it.
    What taxes are you talking about? What new taxes will obama place on the pump?
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  14. #74  
    This article says we can have as much solar electricity online as we want in 3 years, at a price competitive with coal.
    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...ctric_thermal/

    Why are these options not being pursued as a national priority, instead of waiting for the slow hand of the free market to do its thing. It did not save the easter islanders, did it?

    From a 2006 article.

    Competitive with oil

    The German reports put an approximate cost on power derived from CSP. This is now around $50 per barrel of oil equivalent for the cost of building a plant. That cost is likely to fall sharply, to about $20, as the production of the mirrors reaches industrial levels. It is about half the equivalent cost of using the photovoltaic cells that people have on their roofs. So CSP is competitive with oil, currently priced around $60 a barrel.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...gy.environment

    With oil now at $135 per barrel people should be falling all over each other to set up plants.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 06/22/2008 at 08:05 AM.
  15. #75  
    The environmental hoops companies have to jump through to obtain licensing is something to consider. Solar power is fine in lots of places and not so in other places. The intensity of sunshine is a factor as are building codes and the old thing of, "look at that eye sore." There are communities here on Oahu that are very much against solar power due to the eye sore value.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    The environmental hoops companies have to jump through to obtain licensing is something to consider. Solar power is fine in lots of places and not so in other places. The intensity of sunshine is a factor as are building codes and the old thing of, "look at that eye sore." There are communities here on Oahu that are very much against solar power due to the eye sore value.
    They are not talking about household solar power. They are talking about industrial size megawatt power stations using the heat from the sun, concentrated with mirrors, not photovoltaics.

    The technology has many advantages - it scales well, the material involved are cheap and standard, with no development needed (steel, glass, concrete, standard steam turbines), and it continues to work well after the sun goes down, due to the heat retained in the working fluid. They say a 90 square mile area would supply the whole energy needs for the USA.

    Surur
  17. #77  
    The oil compaines have only made 8.5 % profit. That is a big joke. They have made, are making and will continue to make obscene profits if we have 4 more years of the George Bush version of gov't in the guise of McCain. I also at one time admired McCain's straight talk and willingness to tell it like it is. The more involved he's go in being president the less truthfull and independant he's become. He's almost a little George at this point.

    Decide for yourself read his positions on different issues some years ago and check out where he stands now. Oh! how we change (flip flop) especially on oil.




    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    At least he is saying something to the effect of let's do something. Had we done something 10 years ago instead of Clinton vetoing the oil drilling, we would not be in the position we are now. Obama's statement that nothing good will come from the exploration just does not make sense. The gasoline situation affects every person in this country, whether that person drives or not. As the price of fuel climbs, so does everything around us, from fuel, electricity, transportation, heating oil, et cetera. We have sat far to many years and with our resources, our situation is deplorable.

    Also, earlier we mumbled something about oil company profits. The oil companies (Exxon for instance) has an earning of about 8.5% on the dollar. Most companies hit around 20% or so. When you look at the size of the company ($500,000,000,000 company), a return of 8.5% is not too hot. With Congress not able to handle its own cafeteria, why should we think it can handle a fuel company. Nationalization bites. England nationalized its health care years ago and is moving back toward privatization - it did not work. Canada is moving back to a smaller extent - it did not work.
  18. #78  
    No, it is not a big joke. In the over-all picture, 8.5% profit is not good. 4 More years of Bush or 4 more years of Carter? I prefer Bush. Truthful - please do not compare the 2; the changes McCain has stated are not as radical as Obama when he decides to change his stance. As for little George - the President has been straight as an arrow on most of the issues of his administration.

    Quote Originally Posted by cscott44 View Post
    The oil compaines have only made 8.5 % profit. That is a big joke. They have made, are making and will continue to make obscene profits if we have 4 more years of the George Bush version of gov't in the guise of McCain. I also at one time admired McCain's straight talk and willingness to tell it like it is. The more involved he's go in being president the less truthfull and independant he's become. He's almost a little George at this point.

    Decide for yourself read his positions on different issues some years ago and check out where he stands now. Oh! how we change (flip flop) especially on oil.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Also, earlier we mumbled something about oil company profits. The oil companies (Exxon for instance) has an earning of about 8.5% on the dollar. Most companies hit around 20% or so. When you look at the size of the company ($500,000,000,000 company), a return of 8.5% is not too hot.
    Are you talking about net profit margin?
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  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by cscott44 View Post
    The oil compaines have only made 8.5 % profit.
    No, he is talking about net profit margin, I believe.... he is really unclear about what he is talking about.

    He is right about the margins, although Exxon (one he pointed out) made 10% NPM not 8.5%. No big deal though...

    Microsoft made over 20, and my favorite drug company made over 20. Far as the average, I'm not sure...

    Obama and the rest of the dems are dead wrong on the "windfall" tax idea.

    I like many of obama's ideas, but he is wrong on this issue. I'd go so far as to say he is deliberately wrong since he knows most of America don't understand the difference between profits and net profit margin... or bother to understand the financial statements of a company. I'd like to believe he is deliberately wrong since if he is not being deliberate, I'd have to say he is an *****. I don't think he is an *****.

    He is playing that political drum like mccain does when he talks about "holiday tax relief."

    And there are other ways to (attempt to) "win" this argument, but I'm against it so I won't bother.
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