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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    Does it need fixing? Is it really such a bad thing, if climate change is real?
    If it means increases food costs that impact the poorer levels, If it means decreases the security of our towns by forcing cities to make the cops start walking their beat instead of having a car, If it means forces companies to close or to start laying off workers to compensate for the extra expense, if it means that people have to start deciding between gas to get to work and food, if it means that households have to have second parent get another job (which will use more gas to get to) just to keep up with the gas prices and the rising cost it causes in food, if it means......then YES it is a bad thing that needs to be addressed.
  2. #22  
    Motorcycle and scooter riders hate the environment!

    http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...,3268856.story
    This story is about emissions. More specifically, it's about the surprising level of emissions spewing from on-road motorcycles and scooters. In California, such bikes make up 3.6% of registered vehicles and 1% of vehicle miles traveled, yet they account for 10% of passenger vehicles' smog-forming emissions in the state. In fact, the average motorbike is about 10 times more polluting per mile than a passenger car, light truck or SUV, according to a California Air Resources Board comparison of emissions-compliant vehicles.
  3. #23  
    Get out of your fracking car.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Motorcycle and scooter riders hate the environment!

    http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...,3268856.story
    Not electric scooters
    http://www.germes-online.com/catalog...c_bicycle.html

    Surur
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Get out of your fracking car.
    I take it you live in a metro area of a city. That is easy to say when there is sufficient public transportation or is when everything is within a reasonable distance.

    Your suggestion could be applied to everyone who goes to the grocery store often to buy small amounts of groceries....or to go the neighborhood park...etc...

    But that is not a viable option for many like in the Midwest were everything is spread out 10s of miles or more....or where there is not reasonable public transportation available. Where I live would certainly be considered in town....but the nearest library is over 12 miles away, the nearest grocery store (not counting a minute mart) is 5 miles away, the nearest park is just under 5 miles away. Buses around here are not very frequent making them not a very viable option.

    Moving closer is not an option with the housing market as it is right now, and could take years or decades to recoup the cost of moving if the main motivation was to save on transportation.

    Plus with unemployment up, many people cannot be as picky about where their job is or takes them....especially when the jobs are in the next town over. Given rotating schedules, where employees live, having to work two or more jobs, etc...car pooling is great when it works, but is again not even an option in a large amount of situations.

    I have seen many companies help employees with getting out of their cars by offering two solutions:

    1-- Telecommute. Work all the time or part of the work week from a home based office with a dedicated phone line, Internet access, etc... This is actually what my company does whenever possible.

    2-- Longer Days for Shorter Work Week. Work four 10 hour days instead of five 8 hour days. This eliminates on day a week commute to and from work per employee. Half of the staff works Mon-Thur and the other half works Tue-Fri so that the company can still stay open 5 days a week. This is what my wife's company does when possible for those with long commutes.

    "Get out of your fracking car" is a great slogan that we should all strive to implement in our lives as much as possible, but simply is not an option for many due to circumstances or lack of resources.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 06/11/2008 at 01:08 PM.
  6. #26  
    The company I work for is a 24-hour operation. We have staff that does initial delivering/stocking from 8P to 6A, another group comes on to do initial delivery/stocking from 5A to 2P and the group I am in does merchandising from 10A to 6P. In addition to merchandising, I also squeeze in time before, during or after for vehicle maintenance activity for those trucks we have on Oahu. I normally work a set route that has me covering 3 big-box stores requiring from 1 to 3 hours of servicing (Waipio, Honolulu, Hawaii Kai) and often cover other routes for various reasons. Those "other routes" have 5 or more stops. Living on the far west end of the island and going to the far east and back hits about 101 miles or so a day and can easily go as high as 150 miles. The terrain is from flat to mountains and no legal moped can handle some of the routes, especially when one looks at the distance involved. We have an excellent bus service here that runs on time; however, frequent stops, changes, route changes, et cetera, the bus is definitely not a viable option.

    As the cost of fuel goes up, our expenses go up and eventually those expenses are passed to the consumer (meaning allf of us when we purchase the product). It has become common to hear and discuss with people why the cost has gone up and the only reason it has gone up: we are not fuel independent. The cost of everything here in Hawaii depends on fuel to a very large extent.

    The longer work day works fine in the delivery sector, but when it comes to servicing the accounts to keeping the shelves properly stocked and maintained, means that too early and too late are factors that must be considered.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    I have seen many companies help employees with getting out of their cars by offering two solutions:

    1-- Telecommute. Work all the time or part of the work week from a home based office with a dedicated phone line, Internet access, etc... This is actually what my company does whenever possible.

    2-- Longer Days for Shorter Work Week. Work four 10 hour days instead of five 8 hour days. This eliminates on day a week commute to and from work per employee. Half of the staff works Mon-Thur and the other half works Tue-Fri so that the company can still stay open 5 days a week. This is what my wife's company does when possible for those with long commutes.

    "Get out of your fracking car" is a great slogan that we should all strive to implement in our lives as much as possible, but simply is not an option for many due to circumstances or lack of resources.
    What I dont understand why these extreme solutions are thought to be better than everyone driving golf carts (or tiny cars). In UK superminis are a 1/3 of the car market. Its already happening in USA.

    Surely doubling fuel economy would be like halving the fuel price?

    Are we so tied to our cars? 1 litre engines for all I say.

    surur
    Last edited by surur; 06/11/2008 at 01:50 PM.
  8. tirk's Avatar
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    #28  
    Amazing. There are absolutely constant campaigns here to get the police out of their cars....to increase security.

    YMMV, to quote an acronym!
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  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    What I dont understand why these extreme solutions are thought to be better than everyone driving golf carts (or tiny cars). In UK superminis are a 1/3 of the car market. Its already happening in USA.

    Surely doubling fuel economy would be like halving the fuel price?

    Are we so tied to our cars? 1 litre engines for all I say.

    surur
    I used to live in England, I know how popular minis are...they are especially nice in many of the small roads that I used to live on. Because of gas prices minis here in the States are becoming more poplular....but again buying a new car can very well be an extreme measure especially when the cars they have are already paid for. Adding another monthly bill often times defeats the purpose of trying to save money on gas. Also if you have more than 2 kids this isn't really even an option.

    In my line of work, I have to often times take large boxes to various locations or employees, I don't need an SUV but again not feasible with a mini.

    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    Amazing. There are absolutely constant campaigns here to get the police out of their cars....to increase security.

    YMMV, to quote an acronym!
    It is one thing to do it to help to meet demographic needs and another being forced to do it because of high gas prices. But even if this is taken out of the picture all together all the other points I listed are still very real.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 06/11/2008 at 02:31 PM.
  10.    #30  
    I recognize that many here have posted concerning personal consumption of gas as a possible solution. That is certainly a viable option for some, but not for others. We all should strive towards limiting our own personal consumption as best we can in each of our own personal circumstances. I do not think that anyone would disagree with that. But that is not THE answer of why we are at over $4 a gallon and how to bring that down, only a small part of it.

    This also will not effect how gas prices are raising the price for everything we buy because it is more expensive to ship them.

    What has really caught my attention is becoming aware that 30-50% of the cost per barrel may very well simply be with traders being able to buy options on oil with as low as 1% on the future speculation......especially when the standard in commodities is 10% and the same thing outside of commodities is 50% of the future speculation must be put down up front in cash. Again, I have now seen at least 3 reports on CNN, Fox, and in a newspaper that say that if this one factor was brought up to the same as purchasing other options based on future speculation then the price per barrel would be down to anywhere from $60-$80 per barrel rather than $140 at the moment. This is HUGE.
  11. #31  
    But is oil really running out? If it is then surely this is preparation for even bigger shocks in the future,and these speculators are actually doing their jobs of warning usof future trends.

    What this gas price inflation is really doing is exposing extreme efficiencies,such as the exburbs, trucking instead of trains and high food miles, not to mention driving cars much too big.

    Surur
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    I take it you live in a metro area of a city. That is easy to say when there is sufficient public transportation or is when everything is within a reasonable distance.

    Your suggestion could be applied to everyone who goes to the grocery store often to buy small amounts of groceries....or to go the neighborhood park...etc...

    But that is not a viable option for many like in the Midwest were everything is spread out 10s of miles or more....or where there is not reasonable public transportation available. Where I live would certainly be considered in town....but the nearest library is over 12 miles away, the nearest grocery store (not counting a minute mart) is 5 miles away, the nearest park is just under 5 miles away. Buses around here are not very frequent making them not a very viable option.

    Moving closer is not an option with the housing market as it is right now, and could take years or decades to recoup the cost of moving if the main motivation was to save on transportation.

    Plus with unemployment up, many people cannot be as picky about where their job is or takes them....especially when the jobs are in the next town over. Given rotating schedules, where employees live, having to work two or more jobs, etc...car pooling is great when it works, but is again not even an option in a large amount of situations.

    I have seen many companies help employees with getting out of their cars by offering two solutions:

    1-- Telecommute. Work all the time or part of the work week from a home based office with a dedicated phone line, Internet access, etc... This is actually what my company does whenever possible.

    2-- Longer Days for Shorter Work Week. Work four 10 hour days instead of five 8 hour days. This eliminates on day a week commute to and from work per employee. Half of the staff works Mon-Thur and the other half works Tue-Fri so that the company can still stay open 5 days a week. This is what my wife's company does when possible for those with long commutes.

    "Get out of your fracking car" is a great slogan that we should all strive to implement in our lives as much as possible, but simply is not an option for many due to circumstances or lack of resources.
    "Get out of your Fracking car" equals alternatives such as telecommute, longer work days, car pooling, moving one's residence, not buying gas guzzling SUVs for a decade, riding a bike to work or the store, and many many more.

    It seems complicated for middle america to contemplate, like calories in/calories out, or voting for republicans when you're working class is bad for you, but it ain't(sic).
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    But is oil really running out? If it is then surely this is preparation for even bigger shocks in the future,and these speculators are actually doing their jobs of warning usof future trends.

    What this gas price inflation is really doing is exposing extreme efficiencies,such as the exburbs, trucking instead of trains and high food miles, not to mention driving cars much too big.

    Surur
    No the oil is not running out...in fact the original article I quoted claimed that production has out paced consumption.

    It is not even about being able to purchase options on future speculation....it is ONLY about at what percentage of cash they have put down to purchase the future options. Again to help control the impact on normal stocks with options purchased on future speculations 50% of the future options must be paid up front. In commodities, it drops down to 10%, but in oil it can drop as low as 1% paid upfront. This is the issue and what reports are saying could be the reason for the price of oil currently being anything above $60-$80 a barrel right now. So if it is going for $140 a barrel today then 42% to 57% could be cut off the top due to future trading allowed with as little as 1% paid up front. That means that if you were currently paying $4.12 a gallon at the pump you could save 42% to 57% that would bring it down to $1.73 to $2.34 a gallon. This is what these reports in the US and England are currently investing.
  14.    #34  
    I don't know all the details as this is the first I have read about it, but here is a proposal to expand the Corp Task Force responsibilities to also cover energy commodities speculation abuse and some legislation addressing possible abuse of future trading in the oil market.

    Klobuchar co-sponsors legislation on oil markets and energy independence


    U.S. Senator Amy Klobuchar voted today (Tuesday, June 10) for legislation she cosponsored that would bring consumers relief at the gas pump by cracking down on speculation in world energy markets, while also developing long-term renewable energy sources to reduce America’s dependence on foreign oil.

    -----------------


    In April Klobuchar wrote U.S. Attorney General Michael Mukasey, urging him to create an Oil and Gas Market Fraud Task Force to investigate the causes of skyrocketing petroleum prices. In the wake of the Enron scandal, the Department of Justice established a Corporate Fraud Task Force, which produced more than 1,000 convictions by aggressively prosecuting corporate fraud. Klobuchar and Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA) proposed that the Corporate Fraud Task Force be expanded to include oil and gas markets specifically.

    Klobuchar also has written the Administration asking that the Commodity Futures Trading Commission intensify its supervision of energy market trading, including trades placed in foreign exchanges to avoid U.S. regulation, and increase the amount of cash that margin traders must put down on speculative energy investments. The Commission announced last month that it has opened an investigation into possible energy market manipulation.

    The Consumer First Energy Act would have amended the Commodity Exchange Act to impose new reporting requirements on energy traders and prevent traders of U.S. crude oil from routing transactions through offshore markets to evade restrictions on speculative trading. The bill also would have required the Commodity Futures Trading Commission to substantially increase the margin requirement on crude-oil futures trades as a way of limiting speculative trading.

    Another provision of the bill would have amended the Sherman Antitrust Act to give the U.S. Attorney General authority to bring legal action against foreign governments, such as members of OPEC, who engage in collusion to raise prices. And it would have given the federal government authority to impose civil and criminal penalties for gasoline price-gouging under certain circumstances.

    At a time of record oil company profits, the bill also would have created a windfall profits tax on the oil and gas industry. But that provision would have encouraged the development of homegrown renewable energy by specifically exempting profits that are reinvested in clean, renewable energy sources such as wind power and solar energy.

    Source
  15. #35  
    Did you get out of your car yet?
  16.    #36  
    With a few days sick, sure did. Now in the next 8 days I will be on 7 planes, in 3 rental cars, and will be driving around 550 miles in rural parts of OR, ID, and WA.
  17.    #37  
    I am not sure if it is a step in the right direction for those on the eviromental side of oil independence, but it is a step in the direction for oil independence from foriegn oil:

    Honda makes first hydrogen cars


    Japanese car manufacturer Honda has begun the first commercial production of a zero-emission, hydrogen fuel-cell powered vehicle.

    The four-seater, called FCX Clarity, runs on electricity produced by combining hydrogen with oxygen, and emits water vapour.

    Honda claims the vehicle offers three times better fuel efficiency than a traditional, petrol-powered car.

    ---------------

    Critics also point out that hydrogen is costly to produce and the most common way to produce hydrogen is still from fossil fuels.

    Analysis of the environmental impact of different fuel technologies has shown that the overall carbon dioxide emissions from hydrogen powered cars can be higher than that from petrol or diesel-powered vehicles.

    Full Article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7456141.stm
  18. #38  
    You just have to ask where the source for your oxygen and hydrogen come from. If it's the expensive side, water molecules are ripped apart to get them. That means pollution from the power plant. If it's the cheaper way, it's coming from natural gas which means CO2 is still being produced but by the supplier.

    Not commenting whether it is a step in the right diretion or not. Just pointing out that all it really does is pushes the greenhouse gas production from your car to a different source (unless your electrical generation is coming strictly from nuclear, solar, wind or hydro).
  19. #39  
    It may happen then there would be a war for resources as the Petroleum is to the end...
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  20. #40  
    War? The US has the reserves, just not the resources and it is due only to politics and lunatics.
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