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  1. #1001  
    If you were a union member, would you want your vote on an issue to be known by everyone?
  2. #1002  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    If you were a union member, would you want your vote on an issue to be known by everyone?
    if I were a union member -- or a worker of any type -- I'd know instinctively that those arguing on behalf of the issue that you are referencing are NO friends of workers.

    They are the ones who have done everything in their power to prevent unions from forming, and breaking them when they did.

    They are the ones who have outsourced jobs to low waged non-unionized foreigners when it was possible -- or employed illegal aliens when it was not.
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/26/2008 at 09:20 AM.
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  3. #1003  
    You can't make this stuff up - Alaska's biggest newspaper endorses Obama and cites Palin's inexperience as one of the reasons.
    http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/567867.html
    Anchorage Daily News

    Obama for President
    Palin's rise captivates us but nation needs a steady hand


    (10/25/08 19:37:58)

    Alaska enters its 50th-anniversary year in the glow of an improbable and highly memorable event: the nomination of Gov. Sarah Palin as the Republican vice presidential candidate. For the first time ever, an Alaskan is making a serious bid for national office, and in doing so she brings broad attention and recognition not only to herself, but also to the state she leads.

    Alaska's founders were optimistic people, but even the most farsighted might have been stretched to imagine this scenario. No matter the outcome in November, this election will mark a signal moment in the history of the 49th state. Many Alaskans are proud to see their governor, and their state, so prominent on the national stage.

    Gov. Palin's nomination clearly alters the landscape for Alaskans as we survey this race for the presidency -- but it does not overwhelm all other judgment. The election, after all is said and done, is not about Sarah Palin, and our sober view is that her running mate, Sen. John McCain, is the wrong choice for president at this critical time for our nation.

    Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic nominee, brings far more promise to the office. In a time of grave economic crisis, he displays thoughtful analysis, enlists wise counsel and operates with a cool, steady hand. The same cannot be said of Sen. McCain.

    Since his early acknowledgement that economic policy is not his strong suit, Sen. McCain has stumbled and fumbled badly in dealing with the accelerating crisis as it emerged. He declared that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong" at 9 a.m. one day and by 11 a.m. was describing an economy in crisis. He is both a longtime advocate of less market regulation and a supporter of the huge taxpayer-funded Wall Street bailout. His behavior in this crisis -- erratic is a kind description -- shows him to be ill-equipped to lead the essential effort of reining in a runaway financial system and setting an anxious nation on course to economic recovery.

    Sen. Obama warned regulators and the nation 19 months ago that the subprime lending crisis was a disaster in the making. Sen. McCain backed tighter rules for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but didn't do much to advance that legislation. Of the two candidates, Sen. Obama better understands the mortgage meltdown's root causes and has the judgment and intelligence to shape a solution, as well as the leadership to rally the country behind it. It is easy to look at Sen. Obama and see a return to the smart, bipartisan economic policies of the last Democratic administration in Washington, which left the country with the momentum of growth and a budget surplus that President George Bush has squandered.

    On the most important issue of the day, Sen. Obama is a clear choice.

    Sen. McCain describes himself as a maverick, by which he seems to mean that he spent 25 years trying unsuccessfully to persuade his own party to follow his bipartisan, centrist lead. Sadly, maverick John McCain didn't show up for the campaign. Instead we have candidate McCain, who embraces the extreme Republican orthodoxy he once resisted and cynically asks Americans to buy for another four years.

    It is Sen. Obama who truly promises fundamental change in Washington. You need look no further than the guilt-by-association lies and sound-bite distortions of the degenerating McCain campaign to see how readily he embraces the divisive, fear-mongering tactics of Karl Rove. And while Sen. McCain points to the fragile success of the troop surge in stabilizing conditions in Iraq, it is also plain that he was fundamentally wrong about the more crucial early decisions. Contrary to his assurances, we were not greeted as liberators; it was not a short, easy war; and Americans -- not Iraqi oil -- have had to pay for it. It was Sen. Obama who more clearly saw the danger ahead.

    The unqualified endorsement of Sen. Obama by a seasoned, respected soldier and diplomat like Gen. Colin Powell, a Republican icon, should reassure all Americans that the Democratic candidate will pass muster as commander in chief.

    On a matter of parochial interest, Sen. Obama opposes the opening of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, but so does Sen. McCain. We think both are wrong, and hope a President Obama can be convinced to support environmentally responsible development of that resource.

    Gov. Palin has shown the country why she has been so successful in her young political career. Passionate, charismatic and indefatigable, she draws huge crowds and sows excitement in her wake. She has made it clear she's a force to be reckoned with, and you can be sure politicians and political professionals across the country have taken note. Her future, in Alaska and on the national stage, seems certain to be played out in the limelight.

    Yet despite her formidable gifts, few who have worked closely with the governor would argue she is truly ready to assume command of the most important, powerful nation on earth. To step in and juggle the demands of an economic meltdown, two deadly wars and a deteriorating climate crisis would stretch the governor beyond her range. Like picking Sen. McCain for president, putting her one 72-year-old heartbeat from the leadership of the free world is just too risky at this time.

    Copyright Sun Oct 26 2008 10:01:59 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)1900 The Anchorage Daily News (www.adn.com)
  4. #1004  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    You can't make this stuff up - Alaska's biggest newspaper endorses Obama and cites Palin's inexperience as one of the reasons.
    http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/567867.html
    great endorsement. Both thoughtful and well written.
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  5. #1005  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    If you were a union member, would you want your vote on an issue to be known by everyone?
    The point, of course, is that those artocles had absolutely NOTHING to do with anyone "fearing Obama's economics", as you alleged. It's as if you looked at the headlines without actually reading the content.

    The actual issue of this bill would be a good one for a reasoned discussion if it were portrayed as such, instead of as an attack against Obama.
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  6. #1006  
    Bayre, again you have completely side stepped the issue. Do you not believe that the union member should be entitled to a secret ballot? Do you want your ballot broadcast to everyone?

    Also, unions do not create jobs. Union membership is on the downward swing. Though under a liberal government, it may go up, as the unions demand that everyone must be guaranteed their job as a permanent fixture, something like France went through a few years ago with its riots.

    Again, does a union member have the right to privacy with his/her vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    if I were a union member -- or a worker of any type -- I'd know instinctively that those arguing on behalf of the issue that you are referencing are NO friends of workers.

    They are the ones who have done everything in their power to prevent unions from forming, and breaking them when they did.

    They are the ones who have outsourced jobs to low waged non-unionized foreigners when it was possible -- or employed illegal aliens when it was not.
  7. #1007  
    I said nothing about economics here - the simple question, one that you also refuse to answer, does a union member have the right to expect his/her vote to be private? What is so difficult about giving a straight yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    The point, of course, is that those artocles had absolutely NOTHING to do with anyone "fearing Obama's economics", as you alleged. It's as if you looked at the headlines without actually reading the content.

    The actual issue of this bill would be a good one for a reasoned discussion if it were portrayed as such, instead of as an attack against Obama.
  8. #1008  
    Of course it is well written! However, what about her popularity rating with the people? The press as we know it now is an extension of the liberal left. The press as we know it lost its ability to be fair and impartial this year, though it has been showing signs of decadence for years.

    Admit it, you would be most disappointed if the newspaper said anything good about Palin. Admit it now. You will feel better.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    great endorsement. Both thoughtful and well written.
  9. #1009  
    One more thing, its speaks of fundamental change, that Obama presents it. The bad thing is, he is the result of the Chicago Democrat machine and Biden, being something like 30 years in the Senate, he represents more of the same. Now really, please explain without avoiding the question, how that represents change.
  10. #1010  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Of course it is well written! However, what about her popularity rating with the people? The press as we know it now is an extension of the liberal left. The press as we know it lost its ability to be fair and impartial this year, though it has been showing signs of decadence for years.

    Admit it, you would be most disappointed if the newspaper said anything good about Palin. Admit it now. You will feel better.
    Ben -- had Alaska's largest most respected paper -- the paper of a very conservative very republican state -- endorsed McShame, it would have been a non-story.

    Had Will, Brooks, Buckley, Goldwater, Powell, Noonan, McClellan, Adelman etc. etc. endorsed McShame -- it would have been a non story.

    That they actually came out and endorsed Obama -- that is genuine news.
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  11. #1011  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Ben -- had Alaska's largest most respected paper -- the paper of a very conservative very republican state -- endorsed McShame, it would have been a non-story.

    Had Will, Brooks, Buckley, Goldwater, Powell, Noonan, McClellan, Adelman etc. etc. endorsed McShame -- it would have been a non story.

    That they actually came out and endorsed Obama -- that is genuine news.
    I don't think he is getting much sleep these days. He and his pals are sounding more and more desperate. The trolling is starting to increase almost as much as McShame's negative campaigning because they have nothing positive to say. There is NO good news for McShame supporters. Embarrassment maybe. But then, they won't even admit they are embarrassed they voted for Bush so I don't expect anything more from them than continued name calling, antagonizing, and trolling.
  12. #1012  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I don't think he is getting much sleep these days. He and his pals are sounding more and more desperate. The trolling is starting to increase almost as much as McShame's negative campaigning because they have nothing positive to say. There is NO good news for McShame supporters. Embarrassment maybe. But then, they won't even admit they are embarrassed they voted for Bush so I don't expect anything more from them than continued name calling, antagonizing, and trolling.
    Any money on the entire "Wright" issue comes up within days of voting?

    Mccain has to ready a bomb sooner or later... if not I'll be surprised. Now they are saying that Palin is a rogue. LOL...

    I'm still thinking obama could lose... I believe so many are taking it for granted that he has it in the bag... I'd bet some won't even stand in line to vote since they think it is won already. That is why I hate those polls showing obama ahead... it would be much better if everyone said it were even... which I think everything is even... I'm not sure obama is as far ahead as the polls suggest.

    ** by the way, I don't gamble... only a figure of speech.
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  13. #1013  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Any money on the entire "Wright" issue comes up within days of voting?

    Mccain has to ready a bomb sooner or later... if not I'll be surprised. Now they are saying that Palin is a rogue. LOL...

    I'm still thinking obama could lose... I believe so many are taking it for granted that he has it in the bag... I'd bet some won't even stand in line to vote since they think it is won already. That is why I hate those polls showing obama ahead... it would be much better if everyone said it were even... which I think everything is even... I'm not sure obama is as far ahead as the polls suggest.

    ** by the way, I don't gamble... only a figure of speech.
    Well I think Obama is quite cognizant of the potential for lower voter turnout because the polls show he has this thing in the bag. So far, he seems to be handling it well. And I sense that nobody is letting up - neither the campaign nor those that want to vote for Obama are quitting. early voter turnout seems to prove that Obama voters are far more impassioned about voting for him than McShame's voters are about voting for McShame (as they should be, McShame is an embarrassment).
  14. #1014  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Well I think Obama is quite cognizant of the potential for lower voter turnout because the polls show he has this thing in the bag. So far, he seems to be handling it well. And I sense that nobody is letting up - neither the campaign nor those that want to vote for Obama are quitting. early voter turnout seems to prove that Obama voters are far more impassioned about voting for him than McShame's voters are about voting for McShame (as they should be, McShame is an embarrassment).
    McCain = embarrassment (I still can't believe he won the nomination)

    McCain and Palin = Scary. (I can believe McCain's judgment was so bad that he picked Palin)

    I do agree with you... obama is getting the word out to vote, no matter what. His battle cry is "Remember New Hampshire!"
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  15. #1015  
    last winter -- before the primaries -- I predicted Obama would narrowly defeat McShame because of the economy.

    Perhaps drunk on the enthusiasm in the crowds, in the media, in the polls -- as well knowing about the horrific state of our nation and its economy -- I allowed myself to revise my prediction 2 wks or so ago to 53% for Obama, 43-45% McShame, 2-4% for Barr Nadir (pun intended).

    Obama could still be defeated (repugs are most devious and treacherous when they're at risk of losing power.)
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  16. #1016  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    McCain = embarrassment (I still can't believe he won the nomination)

    McCain and Palin = Scary. (I can believe McCain's judgment was so bad that he picked Palin)

    I do agree with you... obama is getting the word out to vote, no matter what. His battle cry is "Remember New Hampshire!"
    We'll see if it works. You can see on this very forum just how desperate the radical right-wing has become. They have nothing left to run on but fear, personal attacks, and demagoguery. I think main stream America has finally figured out what frauds they are though.

    Hopefully he wins. I predicted a long time ago that Obama could never get elected due to his race. But I am becoming more and more convinced that I was wrong.
  17. #1017  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Had Will, Brooks, Buckley, Goldwater, Powell, Noonan, McClellan, Adelman etc. etc. endorsed McShame -- it would have been a non story.

    That they actually came out and endorsed Obama -- that is genuine news.
    Noonan thinks Palin is an *****, but she hasn't endorsed Obama - unless there was some interview this weekend I'm not aware of.

    And Powell waited 'til the winner was clear before choosing sides.
  18. #1018  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    I don't think he is getting much sleep these days. He and his pals are sounding more and more desperate. The trolling is starting to increase almost as much as McShame's negative campaigning because they have nothing positive to say. There is NO good news for McShame supporters. Embarrassment maybe. But then, they won't even admit they are embarrassed they voted for Bush so I don't expect anything more from them than continued name calling, antagonizing, and trolling.
    There's only one person who engaged in name calling on this page.
  19. #1019  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    There's only one person who engaged in name calling on this page.
    Ahhh yes...the old right-wing trick of shaking ones hand with their right hand, while stabbing you in the back with the left....and as the victim screams in agony from the slight-of-hand stab wound the attacker screams as though they were the one that was attacked. Classic.

    By and large I've recently only posted links to Obama's endorsements in this thread. Your side has posted rhetoric and attacks because they have nothing else to post. And I see that you have nothing of substance to post either. Feel free to do so. It is so much more interesting discussing things up here than having to debunk, deconstruct, and fend off the empty arguments that continue to be posted here by McShame supporters.
  20. #1020  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Noonan thinks Palin is an *****, but she hasn't endorsed Obama - unless there was some interview this weekend I'm not aware of.
    She needs to keep her paychecks coming in or she'd have supported Obama too. But she is paid to be a conservative commentor (former Reagan speech writer...as though that actually lends her any more credibility).

    And Powell waited 'til the winner was clear before choosing sides.
    Sour grapes. You would never have said that had he endorsed McCain.

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