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  1. #921  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    The party of intolerance, bigotry, and unbridled corporate greed will be no more.
    By making such broad, sweeping statements you lessen the impact of whatever message you're trying to send.

    FACT: Abraham Lincoln, a Republican is who signed the Emancipation Proclamation.

    FACT: The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was filibustered by Democrats, but when it was finally voted on - 80% of Republicans voted for it. Democrats? Only 60+%

    It's nice to know that Democrats forget that they own the "Southern Democrats" who are the ones who championed succession from the Union...

    I'm tired of being called intolerant and bigoted because I'm a Republican. Good to know the "tolerant" Democrats/Independents are so good at using labels and being judgemental.
    "Whenever I feel like exercise I lie down until the feeling passes."
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  2. #922  
    Quote Originally Posted by phrogpilot73 View Post
    ...FACT: The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was filibustered by Democrats, but when it was finally voted on - 80% of Republicans voted for it. Democrats? Only 60+%...

    largely because of this, almost all those southern "democrats" very soon converted to GOPers
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  3. #923  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    largely because of this, almost all those southern "democrats" very soon converted to GOPers
    I agree, however one can't make such a blanket statement about Republicans that we're intolerant and bigoted.

    FDR (a Democrat) signed the executive order to intern 120,000 Japanese Americans during WWII, Ford (a Republican) repealed it.

    First Asian American Senator? A Republican

    First African American Senator after Reconstruction? A Republican

    First Asian American Federal Judge? A Republican

    First Woman on the Supreme Court? A Republican

    I could go on and on - but I won't, because it's a waste of my time. My party and I will always be viewed as bigoted, intolerant, racist, etc...
    "Whenever I feel like exercise I lie down until the feeling passes."
    -Robert Maynard Hutchins


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  4. #924  
    Traditional southern Democrats still live and prosper. I have a very close friend that has been a life-long Democrat and rarely votes Democrat.
  5. #925  
    Quote Originally Posted by phrogpilot73 View Post
    By making such broad, sweeping statements you lessen the impact of whatever message you're trying to send.

    FACT: Abraham Lincoln, a Republican is who signed the Emancipation Proclamation.
    FACT: that was 144 years ago. What is your point? You aren't actually saying the platforms of the parties hasn't changed in last 144 years, are you?


    FACT: The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was filibustered by Democrats, but when it was finally voted on - 80% of Republicans voted for it. Democrats? Only 60+%

    It's nice to know that Democrats forget that they own the "Southern Democrats" who are the ones who championed succession from the Union...
    Now wait a minute - are you saying the parties are much the same or different? I mean, I know you probably think of yourself as a conservative but surely you don't think that the Republican part is so conservative that their platform hasn't changed in 144 years, do you? Surely you aren't ignoring the time in your party when Barry Goldwater was basically ostracized from the GOP and the evangelicals and radicals in the party began their ascent, are you? While you're looking that up, please tell us how many of the "dixie-crats" you're referring to converted to Republican back then.

    I'm tired of being called intolerant and bigoted because I'm a Republican. Good to know the "tolerant" Democrats/Independents are so good at using labels and being judgemental.
    What kind of labels? Terrorists? Socialist? Tree huggers? Baby killers? un-American? anti-American? Those kind of labels? Maybe you're not intolerant and bigoted. Maybe you're just easily fooled by those that are. Or maybe you just like making empty arguments about the speck in one eye while you have a log in your own?

    I'll run with that one. Thanks for chiming in though.
  6. #926  
    Parties do change. Whilst growing up, the Democrat party was much more conservative than it is today. It had not been over-run by the crazy loons now occupying the driver seat. People far to the left like Obama were not courted by either party.
  7. #927  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    largely because of this, almost all those southern "democrats" very soon converted to GOPers
    Cite examples, please.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  8. #928  
    Toby, I come from an area that was rural in the 50's and it was strongly Democrat and very conservative, more so than by today's standards. Today the area has grown, but its base is still strongly conservative. The term converted to GOPers is not correct, they just stayed conservative while their party left them, which in my case I left the party after it left me.
  9. #929  
    Quote Originally Posted by phrogpilot73 View Post
    It's nice to know that Democrats forget that they own the "Southern Democrats" who are the ones who championed succession from the Union...
    It's secession.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10. #930  
    Quote Originally Posted by phrogpilot73 View Post
    I agree, however one can't make such a blanket statement about Republicans that we're intolerant and bigoted.

    FDR (a Democrat) signed the executive order to intern 120,000 Japanese Americans during WWII, Ford (a Republican) repealed it.

    First Asian American Senator? A Republican

    First African American Senator after Reconstruction? A Republican...
    the people to whom you refer -- Brooks, Rockefeller, Cohen etc. etc -- have largely been pushed from the leadership -- if not entirely from the GOP.

    Its odd to me that people like Powell have stayed loyal for as long as they have

    Moderation of theologic views is not a virtue amongst GOPers
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  11. #931  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Traditional southern Democrats still live and prosper. I have a very close friend that has been a life-long Democrat and rarely votes Democrat.

    is it that they already have hundreds of business cards with a (D) in front of their name, and they can't change affiliations until all their cards run out --

    or are they just too lazy to change their registration ???
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  12. #932  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    ACORN - its ties to Obama and that the Obama campaign gave it something do like $800,000, along with the controversy concerning the illegal registrations being done by ACORN - any comments from the "left" on this?

    As for Obama, he has no history at all of working across the isle - so why would he start now? He has NEVER voted against the party line either.
    ACORN is a non-issue and has not and will not result in any voter fraud. But you keep trying to float that lead balloon.

    Obama has a very clear history of working across the aisle in the Illinois Congress.
  13. #933  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    the people to whom you refer -- Brooks, Rockefeller, Cohen etc. etc -- have largely been pushed from the leadership -- if not entirely from the GOP.

    Its odd to me that people like Powell have stayed loyal for as long as they have

    Moderation of theologic views is not a virtue amongst GOPers
    The transformation of the South from Blue to Red has been incremental, but each increment has been fairly significant. I think the seccession of Strom Thurmond Democrats in 1948, called "Dixiecrats" was one of the most pivotal. Here is a good article about that movement and the end result:

    http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/n....jsp?id=h-1366

    Although the Dixiecrats immediately dissolved after the 1948 election, their impact lasted much longer. Many white voters who initially cast Dixiecrat ballots gravitated back toward the Democratic Party only grudgingly, and they remained nominal Democrats at best. Ultimately, the Dixiecrat movement paved the way for the rise of the modern Republican Party in the South. Many former Dixiecrat supporters eventually became Republicans, as was highlighted by Strom Thurmond's conversion in the 1960s.
    But as the article states, Strom and the Dixiecrats "paved" the way to the modern Republican party. Goldwater had an impact. Nixon had an impact. Reagan had an impact. Gingrich had an impact. And certainly Bush/Rove had an impact. There are many data points along the line that point the irrefutable conclusion - that the modern Republican party is NOT the party of Lincoln.
  14. #934  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    The transformation of the South from Blue to Red has been incremental, but each increment has been fairly significant. I think the seccession of Strom Thurmond Democrats in 1948, called "Dixiecrats" was one of the most pivotal. Here is a good article about that movement and the end result:

    http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/n....jsp?id=h-1366



    But as the article states, Strom and the Dixiecrats "paved" the way to the modern Republican party. Goldwater had an impact. Nixon had an impact. Reagan had an impact. Gingrich had an impact. And certainly Bush/Rove had an impact. There are many data points along the line that point the irrefutable conclusion - that the modern Republican party is NOT the party of Lincoln.
    all true --

    It can be persuaively argued that there is an unbroken line that ties the bitter Confederate losers of 1865 to the contempory GOP
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  15. #935  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    all true --
    Which is why in a court of law one does not just swear to tell the truth. 'Southern Democrats' are far more complicated and diverse than you lot would try to make them.
    It can be persuaively argued that there is an unbroken line that ties the bitter Confederate losers of 1865 to the contempory GOP
    I suppose, but you can be persuaded that a hurricane ravaged Texas this year on the anniversary of Katrina, so persuasiveness varies.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  16. #936  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    ACORN is a non-issue and has not and will not result in any voter fraud. But you keep trying to float that lead balloon.

    Obama has a very clear history of working across the aisle in the Illinois Congress.
    His lead balloon had been popped repeatedly but clearly Ben subscribes to the old adage - if you repeat the lie enough eventually people will accept it as truth.

    Once again, here are two sites that have debunked this ACORN "conspiracy".

    http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/797/

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...cusations.html
  17. #937  
    As a former Reagan Republican, I truly believe that the party has immensely changed since the GOP stood for small government. It has been overrun by the evangelical movement, and thus the fiscal conservativism is directly at odds with social interventionism.

    It's sad that someone with as much of a centrist view as Colin Powell feels that the party has 'narrowed' to the point of excluding more and more former Repubs.
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  18. #938  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    As a former Reagan Republican, I truly believe that the party has immensely changed since the GOP stood for small government.
    The current Republican party bears no resemblance to the Goldwater/Reagan pseudo-Libertarian party. The only reason the Democrats haven't gained back as many 'red' states in the South as they should have is the prevailing attitude among the leadership that we're a bunch of useless rednecks and hillbillies (ironically even in my region where neither truly apply). When they stopped being 'the party of the working man' is when they started getting in trouble. And truthfully, Obama hasn't been as effective communicating _that_ message as he could be.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #939  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    The current Republican party bears no resemblance to the Goldwater/Reagan pseudo-Libertarian party. The only reason the Democrats haven't gained back as many 'red' states in the South as they should have is the prevailing attitude among the leadership that we're a bunch of useless rednecks and hillbillies (ironically even in my region where neither truly apply). When they stopped being 'the party of the working man' is when they started getting in trouble. And truthfully, Obama hasn't been as effective communicating _that_ message as he could be.
    Well to be clear, I'm not saying that Southern Democrats are any such thing. In fact, I must be missing where Southern Democrats as a whole were demonized at all? I was merely pointing out that the notion that the party of Lincoln and the current GOP are not the same by pointing out places along the party's historical time line that change has occurred. They are very different parties than they were 20 years ago. And they sure as heck don't represent anything remotely close to the parties they were 144 years ago.

    As to your charge that the Dems failed to pick up more red states in the past because they treat them like hillbillies...well...sure, there are elements of the left-wing that absolutely paint right-wing evangelicals as just that. But to blame the Dems inability to convert more red states back to blue solely because Southern Democrats are "offended" isn't quite true either.
  20. #940  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Well to be clear, I'm not saying that Southern Democrats are any such thing.
    I wasn't addressing you, honestly.
    In fact, I must be missing where Southern Democrats as a whole were demonized at all?
    Because clearly "Southern Democrats" were the ones who wanted to keep segregation and then magically transformed into modern GOPers at some point.
    As to your charge that the Dems failed to pick up more red states in the past because they treat them like hillbillies...well...sure, there are elements of the left-wing that absolutely paint right-wing evangelicals as just that.
    I'm not even talking about right-wing evangelicals. I'm talking about average blue-collar folks. Do you think the South is primarily right-wing evangelicals?
    But to blame the Dems inability to convert more red states back to blue solely because Southern Democrats are "offended" isn't quite true either.
    It has nothing to do with offense. It has to do with not offering them a compelling reason to vote for their traditional party base.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...

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