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  1. #621  
    Quote Originally Posted by Freak4Dell View Post
    I never claimed to have researched or have knowledge of which elections were blowouts. I do have knowledge of math, so I was being a **** about that
    Say what? lol
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  2. #622  
    Facts.
    Such stubborn things.

    Someone wrote O'Reilly and suggested that Bill Clinton set a time bomb.

    Republicans were the beneficiaries.

    Enough Dems and Moderates probably know to lay the blame where it belongs, and will do what they historically do and vote for the Republican ticket.

    Sit anybody I don't care how young or liberal in front of Barney Frank while he explains his rationale for pushing the political reforms he has on financial institutions, and I guarantee you they will want to vote for the "adults" again like they did for Bush during the terrorist issue.
    Last edited by WHarropson; 09/26/2008 at 11:20 AM.
  3. #623  
    m
    Quote Originally Posted by WHarropson View Post
    Facts.
    Such stubborn things!
    are there for predicting a blowout for your guy Mcsame ??

    (if he don't show up tonight, I predict one too)
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/26/2008 at 11:24 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  4. #624  
    No...

    Sorry I was busy editing my response above.

    Barye, Would you mind diagramming your last response for me?
    Last edited by WHarropson; 09/26/2008 at 11:28 AM.
  5. #625  
    Quote Originally Posted by WHarropson View Post
    No...

    Sorry I was busy editing my response above.

    Barye, Would you mind diagramming your last response for me?
    He's now going -- even he hadn't, there would have been a blowout -- against him
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  6. #626  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    as for references, you really can look and Google yourself - links will be presented just for you courtesy of Google. You might learn something more than what you do not know.
    Translation: you have no references other than Michele Malkin and Bill O'Reilly. Got it.

    Also the market did not decide the actions putting us where we are now - politics did.
    Any non-Malkin, non-Fox references would be most appreciated.

    I guarantee you they will want to vote for the "adults" again like they did for Bush during the terrorist issue.
    And look how that worked out.

    Interesting article about Sarah Palin from a conservative columnist: click here
    Last edited by Bujin; 09/26/2008 at 03:30 PM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  7. #627  
    Off the prompter dangers lurk:



    Or maybe he's still smokin dope.
  8. #628  
    And your statements show without a doubt you are unwilling to look for yourself or have all ready done so and are unwilling to admit it. As for the main stream press - you know as well as everyone here does that the news from them is exceedingly slanted - if it were not, then please, please, please tell us why NBC was forced to reassign to of its employees. Those two employees were extremely prejudiced and over-looked the other side of the issue consistently and without reservation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Translation: you have no references other than Michele Malkin and Bill O'Reilly. Got it.



    Any non-Malkin, non-Fox references would be most appreciated.



    And look how that worked out.

    Interesting article about Sarah Palin from a conservative columnist: click here
  9. #629  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    And your statements show without a doubt you are unwilling to look for yourself or have all ready done so and are unwilling to admit it. As for the main stream press - you know as well as everyone here does that the news from them is exceedingly slanted - if it were not, then please, please, please tell us why NBC was forced to reassign to of its employees. Those two employees were extremely prejudiced and over-looked the other side of the issue consistently and without reservation.
    When all else fails...blame the "liberal" media. What a farce.
  10. #630  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    And your statements show without a doubt you are unwilling to look for yourself or have all ready done so and are unwilling to admit it. As for the main stream press - you know as well as everyone here does that the news from them is exceedingly slanted - if it were not, then please, please, please tell us why NBC was forced to reassign to of its employees. Those two employees were extremely prejudiced and over-looked the other side of the issue consistently and without reservation.
    You can blame the media if you'd like; however, you are again deflecting. You have no references for any of your rants, so would rather I do the work. You can only reference Fox News, Michelle Malkin, or conservative blogs. If you have a point to make, you simply look ridiculous if you can't back up your assertions. Perry Gluckman once wrote "unless you have data as a backup, you're just another guy with an opinion".

    Your statements that I should look for references to back up your points is just silly. I could say "I have proof that McCain is an alien - now you should go find the proof or you're not open-minded".

    I notice you didn't respond to the Palin article, from a conservative columnist (and former supporter) who says that she should drop out because she's "out of her league".

    Lack of intellectual curiosity seems to be a conservative trait these days.
    Last edited by Bujin; 09/27/2008 at 04:43 PM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  11. #631  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    ...
    Interesting article about Sarah Palin from a conservative columnist: click here
    awesome link -- thanks.

    I love the sight of conservatives thrusting broaches into their own eyes in remorse.

    In addition to your reference to the Parker article from the National Review -- copied below -- there is this piece from conservative Brooks:


    Experience matters
    By David Brooks September 16, 2008

    ...In the current Weekly Standard, Steven Hayward argues that the nation's founders wanted uncertified citizens to hold the highest offices in the land. They did not believe in a separate class of professional executives. They wanted rough and rooted people like Palin.

    I would have more sympathy for this view if I hadn't just lived through the last eight years. For if the Bush administration was anything, it was the anti-establishment attitude put into executive practice.

    And the problem with this attitude is that, especially in his first term, it made Bush inept at governance. It turns out that governance, the creation and execution of policy, is hard. It requires acquired skills. Most of all, it requires prudence.

    What is prudence? It is the ability to grasp the unique pattern of a specific situation. It is the ability to absorb the vast flow of information and still discern the essential current of events - the things that go together and the things that will never go together. It is the ability to engage in complex deliberations and feel which arguments have the most weight.


    How is prudence acquired? Through experience. The prudent leader possesses a repertoire of events, through personal involvement or the study of history, and can apply those models to current circumstances to judge what is important and what is not, who can be persuaded and who can't, what has worked and what hasn't.

    Experienced leaders can certainly blunder if their minds have rigidified (see: Rumsfeld, Donald), but the records of leaders without long experience and prudence is not good. As George Will pointed out, the founders used the word "experience" 91 times in the Federalist Papers. Democracy is not average people selecting average leaders. It is average people with the wisdom to select the best prepared.

    Sarah Palin has many virtues. If you wanted someone to destroy a corrupt establishment, she'd be your woman. But the constructive act of governance is another matter. She has not been engaged in national issues, does not have a repertoire of historic patterns and, like President Bush, she seems to compensate for her lack of experience with brashness and excessive decisiveness...



    Palin Problem:

    She’s out of her league.

    By Kathleen Parker The National Review
    September 26, 2008

    ...Palin’s recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.

    No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I’ve been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I’ve also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.

    Palin filibusters. She repeats words, filling space with deadwood. Cut the verbiage and there’s not much content there. Here’s but one example of many from her interview with Hannity: “Well, there is a danger in allowing some obsessive partisanship to get into the issue that we’re talking about today. And that’s something that John McCain, too, his track record, proving that he can work both sides of the aisle, he can surpass the partisanship that must be surpassed to deal with an issue like this.”

    When Couric pointed to polls showing that the financial crisis had boosted Obama’s numbers, Palin blustered wordily: “I’m not looking at poll numbers. What I think Americans at the end of the day are going to be able to go back and look at track records and see who’s more apt to be talking about solutions and wishing for and hoping for solutions for some opportunity to change, and who’s actually done it?”

    If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself.

    If Palin were a man, we’d all be guffawing....

    ... But because she’s a woman — and the first ever on a Republican presidential ticket — we are reluctant to say what is painfully true.

    What to do?

    McCain can’t repudiate his choice for running mate. He not only risks the wrath of the GOP’s unforgiving base, but he invites others to second-guess his executive decision-making ability...
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  12. #632  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    awesome link -- thanks.

    I love the sight of conservatives thrusting broaches into their own eyes in remorse.

    In addition to your reference to the Parker article from the National Review -- copied below -- there is this piece from conservative Brooks:


    Experience matters
    By David Brooks September 16, 2008

    ...In the current Weekly Standard, Steven Hayward argues that the nation's founders wanted uncertified citizens to hold the highest offices in the land. They did not believe in a separate class of professional executives. They wanted rough and rooted people like Palin.

    I would have more sympathy for this view if I hadn't just lived through the last eight years. For if the Bush administration was anything, it was the anti-establishment attitude put into executive practice.

    And the problem with this attitude is that, especially in his first term, it made Bush inept at governance. It turns out that governance, the creation and execution of policy, is hard. It requires acquired skills. Most of all, it requires prudence.

    What is prudence? It is the ability to grasp the unique pattern of a specific situation. It is the ability to absorb the vast flow of information and still discern the essential current of events - the things that go together and the things that will never go together. It is the ability to engage in complex deliberations and feel which arguments have the most weight.


    How is prudence acquired? Through experience. The prudent leader possesses a repertoire of events, through personal involvement or the study of history, and can apply those models to current circumstances to judge what is important and what is not, who can be persuaded and who can't, what has worked and what hasn't.

    Experienced leaders can certainly blunder if their minds have rigidified (see: Rumsfeld, Donald), but the records of leaders without long experience and prudence is not good. As George Will pointed out, the founders used the word "experience" 91 times in the Federalist Papers. Democracy is not average people selecting average leaders. It is average people with the wisdom to select the best prepared.

    Sarah Palin has many virtues. If you wanted someone to destroy a corrupt establishment, she'd be your woman. But the constructive act of governance is another matter. She has not been engaged in national issues, does not have a repertoire of historic patterns and, like President Bush, she seems to compensate for her lack of experience with brashness and excessive decisiveness...



    Palin Problem:

    She’s out of her league.

    By Kathleen Parker The National Review
    September 26, 2008

    ...Palin’s recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.

    No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I’ve been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I’ve also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.

    Palin filibusters. She repeats words, filling space with deadwood. Cut the verbiage and there’s not much content there. Here’s but one example of many from her interview with Hannity: “Well, there is a danger in allowing some obsessive partisanship to get into the issue that we’re talking about today. And that’s something that John McCain, too, his track record, proving that he can work both sides of the aisle, he can surpass the partisanship that must be surpassed to deal with an issue like this.”

    When Couric pointed to polls showing that the financial crisis had boosted Obama’s numbers, Palin blustered wordily: “I’m not looking at poll numbers. What I think Americans at the end of the day are going to be able to go back and look at track records and see who’s more apt to be talking about solutions and wishing for and hoping for solutions for some opportunity to change, and who’s actually done it?”

    If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself.

    If Palin were a man, we’d all be guffawing....

    ... But because she’s a woman — and the first ever on a Republican presidential ticket — we are reluctant to say what is painfully true.

    What to do?

    McCain can’t repudiate his choice for running mate. He not only risks the wrath of the GOP’s unforgiving base, but he invites others to second-guess his executive decision-making ability...
    Anyone that saw her interview with Couric and will still vote for her simply puts their ideology ahead of their country. She is WAYYYY out of her league and the thought of her being President should scare the heck out of any reasonable person.

    Biden should wipe the floor up with her next Thursday....should. But based on Biden's recent performances on the stump I am concerned that this "gimme" of a debate will be squandered. I think Biden runs a real possibility of losing because he gets busy trying to avoid phoney charges of sexism from the GOP and plays it too nice. I hope I'm wrong though.....I want him to expose her for the fraud that she is (or that the GOP created).
  13. #633  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    ...the thought of her being President should scare the heck out of any reasonable person.
    I'm not even a reasonable person and it scares the hell out of me.
  14. #634  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Anyone that saw her interview with Couric and will still vote for her simply puts their ideology ahead of their country. She is WAYYYY out of her league and the thought of her being President should scare the heck out of any reasonable person.

    Biden should wipe the floor up with her next Thursday....should. But based on Biden's recent performances on the stump I am concerned that this "gimme" of a debate will be squandered. I think Biden runs a real possibility of losing because he gets busy trying to avoid phoney charges of sexism from the GOP and plays it too nice. I hope I'm wrong though.....I want him to expose her for the fraud that she is (or that the GOP created).
    I fear you're right moderateinny. Biden is one of the most overrated humans in DC.

    And given his personal track record I'd normally bet that Palin would significantly overachieve against expectations (as I said she would prior to her St. Paul convention speech.)

    I'm guessing that this situation is going to be different. That Biden will have been advised to cool it down, to be respectful but not overly restrained. Advised to respond to the questions asked while contriving to twist the answers to regularly connect McCain to junior's failures and catastrophes.

    I'd be nervous about him directly engaging her too aggressively. If he addresses her at all it ought to be in the form of genuine "what do you think, Sarah about..." questions.

    Inevitably she will mess up on some McCain policy nuance, and Biden can perhaps helpfully assist her on them.

    Poor Sarah's been going to cram school from dawn to bedtime these last few weeks. They have had to be REAMING her with factoids, info, names, and places. Ideas, theories.

    The interviews have shown her to be an okay student -- but one who's not had enough experience in taking these tests.

    Things that have taken BARYE 300 years to absorb, she's being compelled to fake mastery of, in days.

    During the debate she'll be out there without either a net, a teleprompter, or a hidden earpiece (I hope so, anyway).

    The more expectations are heightened, the more she's the target of GOP buyer's remorse, the more she's the subject of press inquiry and questioning -- the more it has to affect her head, and make her somewhat nervous.

    The longer the debate lasts, the more its likely this destructive tension will cause her to freeze up and mess up live on air. Prayerfully, she could even have an Admiral Stockdale moment. ("why am I here ??")

    If she's forced to answer to an even a semi-decent debate moderator, she could self immolate if Biden follows my "quiet" script.

    Her main adversary during the debate will be unscripted surprise -- not Biden.
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/28/2008 at 12:26 AM.
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  15. #635  
    Barye,

    I likedthe Brookes article. Thanks for forwarding it.

    Now, if you simply place Obama's name where Palin's is, wouldn't it still apply? I only ask out of respect for your good judgement.

    I don't think you will find me over imbellishing Palin's credentials except to say they are arguably better than Obama's. So Dems, Keep thowin those stones in that glass house!

    I'm not that excited about McCain either, but he's genuine, Obama is like one of those evangelists we all love to hate, the cult following is really all there is to him. Empty, Empty, Empty.

    I was just thinking today how I respect athiests more than I respect people who use associations with Churches (or faith) for resume enhancements.

    Bill Clinton went to church more regularly than either Bush or Reagan.

    That's something one might consider a bit paradoxical.

    But for a phony like Clinton the benefits of being seen in church far outweigh the downside of having to listen to sermons about moral principle. It may be boring but you get to press the flesh after and there are always cameras wherever the president is. Good for business.

    Now for someone who actually loves God and respects others' faith the decision is quite different. Bush and Reagan knew that the celebrity of the office of the presidency is such that an appearance at church actually causes a distraction that detracts from the purpose of the gathering. Being genuine in faith he and Reagan mostly stayed away.

    I have always said that Church is a good place for evil to hide. It's good cover. Clinton needed cover.

    Now with regard to Obama, it's really the same thing. I don't think he's as phony as Clinton, but he's none the less connected to church for the same non faith political reason.

    He's picked up some pretty good evangelistic skills from his mentors, and I do mean skills, not faith. There is much on one level to be admired about the craft of an Elmer Gantry, and it makes for an entertaining narrative. In this Obama can be empty, empty, empty and still have the appearance of a compelling argument, but only in the same way a Benny Hinn compels (those who follow him).

    My mom enjoys and so gives credence to a couple of Benny Hinn types, and I'm dismayed that she doesn't see what I see.

    Something really happens in those meetings, and that same thing happened most notably to Chris Matthews.

    Now I want someone to explain to me how a guy like Chris can actually make an absolute fool of an Obama official he was interviewing by pressing the guy to come up with any proof of anything substantive Barak had done and then laughing in his face in ridicule because the official was dumb struck. Chris laughed and said: "So you got nuthin".

    So the next thing that happens is Chris goes to to an Obama evangelical extravaganza, and get's faith.

    Something happens in those crusades for sure, but it has absolutely nothing to do with substance and everything to do with Messiahism.

    I'm sure the admiration Obama has for his own pastor was never really about any christian message, rather about the Jim Jones charisma that such a style affords the messenger. The method is effective, and, so, valuable.

    If the christian faith has some Special merit to it that Obama percieved as superior to Islam so as to compel him to be baptised, how could he make the mistake of referring to his Islamic faith? The answer is that he believes none of it, not the Christian faith, not the Islam faith. His heart and mind is empty of any of it. It's empty of all of it. I could respect that if He'd just say he's an athiest.

    Now as a self respecting liberal his faith one way or another is probably irrelevent to you, but the case I'm making is that you should give Obama no more cred than you would a faith healer.

    Don't let your hate for Bush blind you. Obama is empty. Do the most rational thing and vote for the lesser evil, McCain Palin, and try to sublimate that impulse to punish Bush by voting for the empty suit. Your liberal friends don't have to know about it. It can be your little secret. Just think what a rebel you'll be! but be careful, doing the right thing can be habit forming.
  16. #636  
    Quote Originally Posted by WHarropson View Post
    I was just thinking today how I respect athiests more than I respect people who use associations with Churches (or faith) for resume enhancements.
    Gee thanks for all that respect. That was one of the top 20 strangest post I've read. Your POV is unique.
  17. #637  
    WH, it would sit perfectly replacing the names. Let us not forget where Obama launched his campaign at - the home of a confessed terrorist that stated he did not do enough. Let us not forget the ties he had with the Chicago political machine, the machine that put him in power and he fit right in to. Let us not forget his involvement with the R guy and with ACORN. Let us not forget that at this time, Michelle is out of the spot light because she shows the side of Obama that middle America is afraid of. Of the 2, she is really far out to the left and when she speaks, she puts a hurtin' on her man. Obama does not say what he means; Michelle says exactly what Obama means.
  18. #638  
    Quote Originally Posted by WHarropson View Post
    I was just thinking today how I respect athiests more than I respect people who use associations with Churches (or faith) for resume enhancements.
    You mean like McCain is using Palin?

    Quote Originally Posted by WHarropson View Post
    Bill Clinton went to church more regularly than either Bush or Reagan.

    That's something one might consider a bit paradoxical.
    The only thing paradoxical is you describing your candidate McCain.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  19. #639  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    You mean like McCain is using Palin?



    The only thing paradoxical is you describing your candidate McCain.
    Man...I've been wondering for years how Karl Rove duped so many into voting for Bush...twice...and here I have one of the most twisted pieces of hypocritical logic to justify an extreme ideological position I've ever seen. Thanks for the clarification WHarropson.

    Congrats Ben and WHarropson ...I've prayed all that I can for you both but Jesus sees right through your phoney, wrong-headed thinking and he told me that you two won't be needing any sweaters in the afterlife. You're haters and he knows that and you use his name to rationalize your radical viewpoints and guess what? He'd rather send decent people that tried to help others that were less fortunate in society - even if they were gay - than help bogus Christians that vote for war, greed, and hate mongering in the name of thei beloved political party - the Republicans. Shame on you both.

    Now here is my theory - Bush was a cokehead and alcoholic and Karl Rove realized the only way to win over people of faith was to make Bush "born again". Otherwise, he'd never win any political office. Once he finally won political office he only had to use mostly rhetoric and very little action to appease his religious base. Turns out - the more religious bullsh|t he spread the more the base got fired up. Who knew Christians were such haters? But enough were to send him to the Whitehouse where he continues his facade today.
  20. #640  
    Quote Originally Posted by WHarropson View Post
    Barye,

    Now, if you simply place Obama's name where Palin's is, wouldn't it still apply? I only ask out of respect for your good judgement.
    I think if you look at Obama's command of issues, as he demonstrated in the recent debate, and contrast it with Palin's (as in the Couric and Gibson debates), you can't really make that comparison.

    Even conservatives are starting to balk at her candidacy.
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