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  1. #441  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    If one does any looking at the writing of Alec MacGillis, you will notice it is exceedingly one-sided - it is opinion given as fact. If it were an article to be taken seriously, it would not be one-sided. Bayre, you can do much, much better than him.
    Ben -- its an assemblage of facts -- if you feel they are inaccurate, do us a service by refuting them (with references)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  2. #442  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Criticism on over-involvement of a spouse is well within reason. Don't recall Hillary or Nancy being classified as Bill or Ronnie's brain, though.
    I don't recall that particular criticism about Bill, but it was definitely the gist of the Nancy criticism.
  3. #443  
    I read his article and yes it is an assemblage of facts, but the presentation is again one sided, which is what an editorial is. It is designed to make the most of the small-town atmosphere that is throughout this country.

    Have you thought of looking for errors in this article? It would be most interesting to see the results of your taking the time to look at it without prejudice and reporting back to us in the style you are famous for.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Ben -- its an assemblage of facts -- if you feel they are inaccurate, do us a service by refuting them (with references)
  4. #444  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    ... It is designed to make the most of the small-town atmosphere that is throughout this country.
    yes -- exactly.

    You don't hand the keys over to the intern to run Boeing...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  5. #445  
    Please say that again, may twice and then ask the question - but we wanna give da keys to Obama. Barye!
  6. #446  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I read his article and yes it is an assemblage of facts, but the presentation is again one sided, which is what an editorial is. It is designed to make the most of the small-town atmosphere that is throughout this country.

    Have you thought of looking for errors in this article? It would be most interesting to see the results of your taking the time to look at it without prejudice and reporting back to us in the style you are famous for.
    Are you disputing the facts themselves? They seem to be well- supported in the article. If you have references to support inaccuracies, I for one would be interested in seeing them.
  7. #447  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    I don't recall that particular criticism about Bill, but it was definitely the gist of the Nancy criticism.
    No, the criticism towards Nancy was more that Ronnie deferred to her superstitions too much.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  8. #448  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    No, the criticism towards Nancy was more that Ronnie deferred to her superstitions too much.
    Well, that was one criticism, but there were also complaints that she had undue influence over his staff, and that she influenced his decusions as well.
  9. #449  
    No, there is no way to dispute their on-surface inaccuracy, if inaccurate at all. You know as well as anyone else does that you can take facts and present them in a light that over-states them and that when those facts are looked at, those facts fall apart. What is needed though is for someone with extreme talent in the fact finding and decision making arena to report to us in depth the real story. For that person to look at the article and research those facts to determine if those facts stand up completely or are full of wholes and if those facts are any different when looked under a different perspective. Barye has the talent, does he though have the desire to be even about it. Again, I am not disputing the "facts," just the presentation - it is an editorial, not an article.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Are you disputing the facts themselves? They seem to be well- supported in the article. If you have references to support inaccuracies, I for one would be interested in seeing them.
  10. #450  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Please say that again, maybe twice and then ask the question - but we wanna give da keys to Obama. Barye!
    my critiques of Obama are already well known.

    He at least has undergone almost two years of a Presidential campaign -- which is in effect an extended seminar for being President.

    Hers will not be even the equivalent. Its kind of a cram course -- like a BARBRI Bar prep course -- pumping her full of amphetamines and factoids just so that she can take one test: that 45 minute oral w/Biden.

    Despite my much voiced skepticism of Obama, its a fact that's he's experienced a well rounded and intensive education. He's seen much of the world, and has thought about its problems and solutions.

    He's been in pressure situations for much of the last year that required thoughtful decisions under the gun of time -- decisions that if made wrong could have derailed his candidacy.

    That her experience has been mostly focused on worrying about stop lights and skating rinks reveals more about McCain and his pathetic cynicism, than about either Palin or Obama.

    Of the 4 running right now -- he is the most qualified to be President (as ridiculous as that is to say)
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/14/2008 at 12:58 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11. #451  
    Again, I am not disputing the "facts," just the presentation - it is an editorial, not an article.
    I didn't see any indication that it was an editorial - it is listed in the Politics, not Opinions, on their site. It didn't seem to include any input regarding the author's persective at all, but was a collection of facts. So what are you basing your conclusion that it's an editorial?
    Last edited by Bujin; 09/14/2008 at 01:07 PM.
  12. #452  
    Sarah Palin from a 'conservative' source:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...r=emailarticle
    Grant Smith
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    eNVENT Technologies
    Use your imagination.
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    Sprint HTC Evo 4G

    DISCLAIMER: The views, conclusions, findings and opinions of this author are those of this author and do not necessarily reflect the views of eNVENT Technologies.
  13. #453  
    Re: spousal involvement...are we assuming that the spouse is becoming significantly more involved than he/she was during the candidates political career to that point? If not, isn't part of the candidate's policy already "spousally" influenced?
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  14. #454  
    Quote Originally Posted by ****-richardson View Post
    Re: spousal involvement...are we assuming that the spouse is becoming significantly more involved than he/she was during the candidates political career to that point? If not, isn't part of the candidate's policy already "spousally" influenced?
    Sure, but it is being perceived as more an issue in this instance, because of the sheer depth of his involvement. Todd Palin was copied on all of Sarah Palin's official emails, met with officials in the administration on a regular basis, and made calls as a representative of Sarah. All this while having no official role in the administration - and it has been reported that his influence extended to putting pressure on family-related issues (i.e. the Wooten situation).
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  15. #455  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    That's bordering on sexism.
    Sexist? Iím not stereotyping Palin. Iím simply pointing out that like Rove is to junior, somebody is to Sarah Palin. That somebody presumably her husband. Your charge is just the latest rethug talking point.
    And actually if you want to get into the psychology of it all, why would you jump to the conclusion that me pointing out this woman may not have a brain is being sexist? Iíve never held the view that all or most women donít have a brain. You canít get to your sexist charge without some evidence of the aforementioned view. Maybe you yourself harbor those general feelings perhaps?
    The recent interview shows that there isnít much behind Palin, nothing but rote responses. And her proximity to Russia makes her qualified to deal with Russia? Give me a break. What kind of answer is that? Hell, I can see Consulate offices from where I am, that doesnít make me equipped to negotiate trade deals with any of them. No itís not sexism to point out the obvious. Itís just a shame that the obvious has to be pointed out.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  16. #456  
    I think it's ironic that even Karl Rove is saying that McCain's ads have gone too far in stretching the truth:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/...rap/index.html
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  17. #457  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Sexist?
    Bordering on it, yes.
    Iím not stereotyping Palin.
    You're not? You find it possible for a thinking, independent woman to hold the positions and take the actions that she does?
    Iím simply pointing out that like Rove is to junior, somebody is to Sarah Palin.
    What would make you think that someone is to her as Rove is to W? Also, who is the Rove for Obama? To an impartial observer, she has just as much place on a presidential ticket as Obama without someone assuming she's just a puppet.
    That somebody presumably her husband. Your charge is just the latest rethug talking point.
    I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, AAMOF. I don't get either of their talking points. I realize that this is difficult for an anti-Republican like yourself or an anti-Democrat like logmein or bclinger to accept, but there are other viewpoints out there based on more than brain-washing.
    And actually if you want to get into the psychology of it all,
    Are you a psychologist? How many hours of psychology study have you taken?
    why would you jump to the conclusion that me pointing out this woman may not have a brain is being sexist?
    Perhaps if you'd take a deep breath and actually read what I said, you'd note that I didn't call you sexist. I'd quote Gertrude, but I'd hope given your screen name it'd be unnecessary.
    Iíve never held the view that all or most women donít have a brain. You canít get to your sexist charge without some evidence of the aforementioned view.
    It's really interesting how deeply you're taking this.
    Maybe you yourself harbor those general feelings perhaps?
    No, I'm not projecting. I think it's entirely possible that Sarah Palin is an intelligent, capable woman who happens to disagree with many views I hold. I also do not think her involving her husband in her decisions means she's some sort of puppet or *****.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18. #458  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Bordering on it, yes.
    Well, you can split the remaining hairs on your avatar all you want. It still doesnít change the fact that the sexist perception is coming from you, not me. I donít have any control over you and your perceptions. The fact that you perceive this, does not make it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    You're not? You find it possible for a thinking, independent woman to hold the positions and take the actions that she does?
    It depends, you can be a thinking, independent woman about some things, and absolutely clueless about other things. Just like men. She has already admitted, sheís clueless about the role of VP. She has already admitted, judging by her interview performance that she is clueless about foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    What would make you think that someone is to her as Rove is to W?
    Her lack of knowledge, knowledge that a VP should have. Her rote answers, and her attempt to try and finesse answers to questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Also, who is the Rove for Obama?
    Certainly not his wife.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    To an impartial observer, she has just as much place on a presidential ticket as Obama without someone assuming she's just a puppet.
    Maybe to an uninformed impartial observer, or republican cheerleader. But you canít seriously compare Palinís resume with Obamaís. Go ahead compare the two, starting with college. Admittedly, Palinís category may be a little longer for this one because sheís been to six of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, AAMOF. I don't get either of their talking points. I realize that this is difficult for an anti-Republican like yourself or an anti-Democrat like logmein or bclinger to accept, but there are other viewpoints out there based on more than brain-washing.
    You paint with to broad a brush. Iím not anti-republican. Iím liberal on some things, conservative on others. It depends on the issue. If Obama gets elected, and he turns out to be just as corrupt and incompetent as this republican administration, Iíll criticize him too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post

    Are you a psychologist? How many hours of psychology study have you taken?
    My degree is in Law. I donít need to be a psychologist, or have a certain number of hours in psychology in order to take apart your arguments. All it takes is logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Perhaps if you'd take a deep breath and actually read what I said, you'd note that I didn't call you sexist. I'd quote Gertrude, but I'd hope given your screen name it'd be unnecessary.
    more splitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    It's really interesting how deeply you're taking this.
    Actually this is my first response to you, I thought I was just hitting the surface. If it seems deep, Iím sorry, I guess itís my training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    No, I'm not projecting. I think it's entirely possible that Sarah Palin is an intelligent, capable woman who happens to disagree with many views I hold. I also do not think her involving her husband in her decisions means she's some sort of puppet or *****.
    She may be an intelligent capable woman generally speaking. But the issue is whether her specific intelligence and capabilities rise to the level of being a heart beat away from arguably the most important job in the world. I donít think so.
    Last edited by Iago; 09/14/2008 at 09:24 PM.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  19. #460  
    I've watched that SNL opening at least 5 times today - it just doesn't stop being funny.

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