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  1. #401  
    One learns a lot with a civil debate. One learns even more when it is not civil. As for the 3rd party thing, voting for a 3rd party hurt the main parties and the 3rd party never wins anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by ****-richardson View Post
    I find that when Democrats and Republicans debate, neither seems able to recognize the logical inconsistencies inherent with their own party. The criticisms each side receives from the other are frequently spot on...but the debate seems to devolve into which flaws are less ridiculous, rather than a 3rd option which doesn't suck.

    The only real irritation is have with 3rd party candidates is the stupid responses they always give when asked about stealing votes. I would LOVE for one of them to point out that they didn't steal anyones else's vote. It's their damn vote...not someone else's. "Yeah, but if you weren't on the ticket, they would have voted for X." That is exactly the reason that a 2 party system is flawed, rather than an exoneration of flawed policy.
  2. #402  
    Quote Originally Posted by ****-richardson View Post
    I find that when Democrats and Republicans debate, neither seems able to recognize the logical inconsistencies inherent with their own party. The criticisms each side receives from the other are frequently spot on...but the debate seems to devolve into which flaws are less ridiculous, rather than a 3rd option which doesn't suck.
    I agree wholeheartedly. Although I will add that, though the criticisms are sometimes accurate, they are as often mis-truths, half-truths, and comments purposefully taken out of context, all acting under the assumption that the American people will respond to the sound bite and don't care enough to look at the real facts.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  3. #403  
    Civil debates are fine and yes truths, half truths, et cetera. However, we have members here that deride the other side in a manner that is down right wrong - women...children...Putin...the list continues. The one thing though that can be stated without any argument - he did knock on their doors and no one on the liberal side can take an issue on it and yet they continue babbling about how bad the right is. So to say the right is bad and not even acknowledge what Obama has done shows how stupid this really is.
  4. #404  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Civil debates are fine and yes truths, half truths, et cetera. However, we have members here that deride the other side in a manner that is down right wrong - women...children...Putin...the list continues. The one thing though that can be stated without any argument - he did knock on their doors and no one on the liberal side can take an issue on it and yet they continue babbling about how bad the right is. So to say the right is bad and not even acknowledge what Obama has done shows how stupid this really is.
    I agree, he really shouldn't have knocked on the doors of those women, children or Putins.
    Last edited by Bujin; 09/10/2008 at 11:07 PM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

    Treo600 --> Treo650-->PPC6700-->Treo700P-->Treo755P-->Treo800W --> Touch Pro-->Palm Pre --> EVO 4G
  5. #405  
    Knocking on the door - think about it. He gets in to Chicago, sets himself up. Looks for support, people who can get him in the machine and up and running. He goes looking for those people, who happen to be social misfits (murders, terrorists, et cetera) - he goes looking for them, they do not go looking for him. He knocks on their door.

    Obama is an ordinary politician - says what he needs to achieve his ends. Obama lies as needed, does not answer questions as needed, avoids the issues as needed, back tracks as needed, changes his stance as needed. Obama is not for change and the failure of people to understand that is what this is all about. My dislike is Obama's politics, not the man himself. With his actions, view points, statements, back ground, the people he openly associates with, there is no way he can bring us all together - he is just too far to the left for most of us.
  6. #406  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    Although I will add that, though the criticisms are sometimes accurate, they are as often mis-truths, half-truths, and comments purposefully taken out of context, all acting under the assumption that the American people will respond to the sound bite and don't care enough to look at the real facts.
    Sadly, the latter is not an assumption, it is an established fact fully understood by both political parties and the bread and butter of a lot of people.

    We frequently look a the supply side of the campaign finance. IE who gave and what did they expect/get in return.

    But look at the otherside of the coin which is even scarier. What is even more shocking, confounding and depressing is what is done with the billions collected by campaigns, 527's, interest groups running scare tactics on who will appoint the next set of judges etc. Those billions are spent on exactly that: promulgating half truths, mistruths, comments, votes etc all out of context. Why? Because it works.

    Our polticians aren't being bribed so they can buy yachts and hookers, it is worse, they are being bribed so they can spend the money driving political discourse, an d our democracy itself, into nonsense.
  7. #407  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    The real enemy is Afghanistan? Every single intelligence agency in the world agreed with the statements Bush presented. The Iraqi leader did have a connection with Obama, did torture/kill thousands of his country's citizens. Billy stated regime change was needed...the list continues.
    example of above.

    The statement that every single intelligence agiency agreed is wrong. Did most? yes. Why? because they were in a feedback loop, themselves relying on faulty US intelligence.

    The problem that drove the faulty US intelligence conclusions and attribution of credibility to interested disseminators of disinformation like Chalabi, and Judith Miller's various sources, was a base assumption that Saddam refusal to comply with WMD inspections, in the face of possible overthrow could only mean he had WMDs.

    We were unable to see Saddam's perspective, in any proper game theory analysis though, where, given the threat by Iran, his internal enemies, and the US, he had an interest in creating the facade of possible WMD to protect himself. It was rational for a Saddam without WMD to stonewall inspections.

    On the assertion of of Saddam having a connection to UBL (which the writer calls Obama!) this is an entirely bogus idea. The reaches and leaps one has to use to come to that conclusion would implicate the US (udner both Clinton and the first Bush administration (and others such as the Sovietis) as much more evident, provable, and effective collaborators with Saddam than Al Qaeda! Of course the same logic would place the US, and Specifically the Reagan administration, as the principle patron and booster of Bin Laden.

    I am glad Saddam is gone. Like most Americans I am aghast that it was done with the most idiotically prepared and prosecuted war in our history.
  8. #408  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Civil debates are fine and yes truths, half truths, et cetera. However, we have members here that deride the other side in a manner that is down right wrong - women...children...Putin...the list continues. The one thing though that can be stated without any argument - he did knock on their doors and no one on the liberal side can take an issue on it and yet they continue babbling about how bad the right is. So to say the right is bad and not even acknowledge what Obama has done shows how stupid this really is.
    Boy, that breast pump joke really got under your skin, didn't it?
    I see you've made reference to it several times. hahaha
    bclinger..... turn it loose! That was well over 200 posts ago! dang!
    Dare I say it? What the heck....You remind me of that pitbull....with lipstick. hahahaha
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  9. #409  
    Hey, it goes to show though the double standard that is played by the party. You have yet to hear that recently from the republicans. Obama just has not got the experience to keep cool when the need arises.
  10. #410  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Obama just has not got the experience to keep cool when the need arises.
    I will say one thing, his reaction and those of the Democratic Party, to the Palin pick shows he is easily distracted.

    I think McCain and McCain's people knew the media would go bonkers and drive their coverage away from issues to personalities, but the amount that Democrats have abetted this, to their own peril, is stunning.
  11. #411  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    I will say one thing, his reaction and those of the Democratic Party, to the Palin pick shows he is easily distracted.

    I think McCain and McCain's people knew the media would go bonkers and drive their coverage away from issues to personalities, but the amount that Democrats have abetted this, to their own peril, is stunning.
    I personally want to give Obama a break on the lipstick thing. He can't help it if he can't originate or deliver a joke.

    Nor do I subscibe to conspiracy theories. It's too easy to forward emails and information that is poorly resourced just because it might cast a poor light on the opposition. I mention it because one is going around about Obama being an Islamic plant.

    Obama wasn't being sexist nor was he calling anybody a pig. He was however inartfully speaking off the cuff without a prepared text. If I had taken on myself the responsibility to blab endlessly to my constituants, no doubt I'd stumble into some gaffe.

    The initial finesse of Palin has distracted him. He'd be better off leaving the humor to people who are capable of it.

    And since there is nothing funny about being a Liberal Democrat, (at least not to a Liberal Democrat) he should just stick to the talking points lest he reveal again the angry radicals he and his wife are.

    Rush often says that good humor always has a basis in truth.

    I watch and enjoy much of what I see on the Daily Show, Colbert, Leno. About the only time they aren't funny is when their anger defies them. Recently Stewart had some clips about McCain that were sickening bathroom humor. Not funny, but very angry.

    They often Joke about people I like, and if it is based on truth, it is really funny, even if it isn't flattering. If it is based upon a lie, or a slander, or a willful mischaracterization it is just sick. Not funny.

    An example would be Whoopi Goldberg's famous **** and Bush Slander. Not funny. It revealed nothing about Bush and Cheney, and everything about Goldberg and her compadres. (Similar humor about Bill Clinton however was very funny.)

    On the conspiritorial front, I don't want to read any more than there is into Stephanopholos', correcting Obama when Obama said that he was a Muslim. I want as much as anyone for it to be OK to be a Muslim.

    Here's my best, most judicious evaluation of this issue. Judging by how he continues to claim he had never heard the things his pastor preached, I think we can conclude that he doesn't know what he is. He really doesn't. Maybe that's not a conspiracy, just another depressing and unhumorous symptom of being... yes... a Liberal Democrat.

    It may have been a freudian slip, given his confusion, I'll forgive him for that too.

    I think it was Palin who quipped," the Presidency isn't just someone's path to self discovery"...
    Now that was a line well delivered!

    Let's just hope it doesn't become one.
    Last edited by WHarropson; 09/11/2008 at 03:26 PM. Reason: I keep adding thoughts
  12. #412  
    Well put throughout. He does not ad lib well and needs to stay with his prompter and notes. He really needs a few more years to get his anger under control.
  13. #413  
    Just remember how much Obama loves this country:

    http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/10...e-unpatriotic/
  14. #414  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Just remember how much Obama loves this country:

    http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/10...e-unpatriotic/
    Wow! Another biased piece from malkin. The only thing less shocking is that you swallowed it whole!
  15. #415  
    Biased? No more than your Matthews & Oberman and bunches of others on the cable channels.
  16. #416  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Biased? No more than your Matthews & Oberman and bunches of others on the cable channels.
    We agree that those dudes are biased. I never claimed otherwise and never threw out their links.
  17. #417  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo View Post
    Wow! Another biased piece from malkin. The only thing less shocking is that you swallowed it whole!
    Malkin is a commentator.
    I just want to post a disclaimer.
    Everything I say is biased.
    Everyone I quote is biased.
    Everyone with a brain is biased.
    Unbiased reporting is simply a discipline a good
    journalist engages in intellectually, when he/she is not editorializing.

    If you don't have a response to anything but to say something is biased.. Why do you bother?

    If you have something interesting to say, we want to hear it.
    Last edited by WHarropson; 09/11/2008 at 03:54 PM.
  18. #418  
    The worse thing about this entire program we are enduring is that the press is no longer doing their job. The "4th" branch of government has gone one way with no interest in telling the truth. Listen to the "real" news and you still hear the bias involved. At least with talk radio, you know what you get - opinion; with news, it is now the norm to get "facts" that really are nothing more than opinion.
  19. #419  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo View Post
    Wow! Another biased piece from malkin. The only thing less shocking is that you swallowed it whole!

    Indeed she is biased, which makes her message very clear up front. Much better than those who are biased, yet claim to be unbiased.

    Besides, like WHarropson said, she is a commentator--that's what she does, comments on things.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  20. #420  
    McLiar received a beat down from the ladies of the view of all places. Funny.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/the-view-couch-not-so-cozy-for-mccain/?hp

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