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  1. #321  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    I read it when it first hit and yes, I re-read it yesterday. The Iraq Study Group - have you looked at who made up the group and its purpose? A few members did resign before the "study" was released. Had we followed the Iraq Study Group's recommendation, the success we are currently seeing in Iraq would never have occurred. The ISG was flawed from the beginning.
    You're right, the study couldn't be impartial.

    After all, it included 5 Republicans and 5 Democrats, was chaired by James Baker and included Lawrence S. Eagleburger (both of whom served as George Bush 41's former Secretary of State). It also included Edwin Meese (Reagan's Attorney General), Sandra Day O'Connor (who was selected for the Supreme Court by Reagan) and Alan K. Simpson (a 20-year Republican Senator).

    Only 2 members quit the group: Robert Gates left to become Secretary of Defense (to be replaced by Eagleburger), and Rudy Giuliani (who was replaced by Meese). He didn't think it was appropriate to be on an apolitical panel while running for president. If anything, his leaving was designed in recognition that the study group should be above politics.

    "The More You Know...."
    Last edited by Bujin; 09/05/2008 at 04:07 PM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  2. #322  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    she is main stream America. Her relationship with her family, her husband being a "union" member, has a family, setting goals for herself. She is much more main stream America than Obama is.
    Please , Palin was probably mainstream 100 years ago, back when Annie Oakley was all the rage. Her views are rather extreme, and will become more widely known once her “newness” wears off, and she is allowed to open her mouth. The only skills I saw that Palin had was that she can read a very sarcastic speech.
    I can’t wait to hear her actually have to answer substantive questions. How can you be a heartbeat away from the Presidency and not have an opinion on Iraq? I don’t see her playing a substantive role in a McCain administration. Given McCain’s history with Christian conservatives, that’s not who he is. Palin is just a means to an end.

    I give McCain a C for his speech. The way he talked about his confinement, broken arms, not being able to feed himself, was moving. But the rest of the speech was the same old tired ideas. I would have to give the convention itself a D. It was a very negative convention, full of lies and misinformation. It looked like an AARP commercial.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  3. #323  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Please , Palin was probably mainstream 100 years ago, back when Annie Oakley was all the rage. Her views are rather extreme, and will become more widely known once her “newness” wears off, and she is allowed to open her mouth. The only skills I saw that Palin had was that she can read a very sarcastic speech.
    I can’t wait to hear her actually have to answer substantive questions. How can you be a heartbeat away from the Presidency and not have an opinion on Iraq? I don’t see her playing a substantive role in a McCain administration. Given McCain’s history with Christian conservatives, that’s not who he is. Palin is just a means to an end.

    I give McCain a C for his speech. The way he talked about his confinement, broken arms, not being able to feed himself, was moving. But the rest of the speech was the same old tired ideas. I would have to give the convention itself a D. It was a very negative convention, full of lies and misinformation. It looked like an AARP commercial.
    Everything you say is true.

    It won't much matter.

    Palin will cram non-stop until the debate -- and will perform passably well (likely better than Biden -- both given his dismal history, and the way that expectation has played into previous debates -- going back at least as far as Raygun.)

    At some point -- even as incompetent as Obama and his team have been -- they will figure out a way to HAMMER McCain and the GOP regarding the mortgage meltdown and the economic collapse. They will (if only by random chance) come upon a way connect the average voter's life to a prospective 4 more years of government by the rich and for the rich ...

    it is my desperate hope that they will somehow squeak through to victory.
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  4. #324  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    it is my desperate hope that they will somehow squeak through to victory.
    There is also the possibility that it may not even be close. I wonder just how accurate the polls are, and whether many of Obama’s supporters are actually being reached. Many people (especially younger voters) don’t have land line. Is this being taking into account? And is the adjustment accurate? We'll see.
    Last edited by Iago; 09/05/2008 at 05:20 PM.
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  5. #325  
    Sitting here sweating on one of the few generator runs we will do today, I find myself wondering which presidential candidate has noticed the effects of Gustav on Louisiana. At this point in Katrina, the national news had Aaron Broussard making up stories while crying hysterically on MSNBC. Brownie had done a heck of a job. All I've seen nationally of Gustav was Katie Couric waiting ghoulishly in New Orleans, and when the levees didn't break there, she hightailed it out of there and went cover the RNC and a Cancer benefit. Ah, who cares about that when we can comfortably bicker about minor policy and personality issues?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  6. #326  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    There is also the possibility that it may not even be close. I wonder just how accurate the polls are, and whether many of Obama’s supporters are actually being reached. Many people (especially younger voters) don’t have land line. Is this being taking into account? And is the adjustment accurate? We'll see.
    you're quite right about the laughable methodology by which the alchemists conduct their "scientific" polls.

    I have previously written about my view that discussion of polls ought be banned during campaign season -- if only for reasons of journalistic ethics. (I have heard that in some countries discussion/publization of polls is outright illegal in the months near election day).

    Polls are tools by which campaigns can gage the effectiveness of their communication/propaganda -- and of their opponents unfair attacks.

    There is almost NO excuse -- NONE --- for journalists to make use of, talk about, or especially initiate the creation of polls. Almost nothing infuriates BARYE as much as this subject. If I on occasion have sometimes made reference to some poll result, its was only in cynical support of some pre-existing opinion of mine.

    The ONLY polls worthy of discussion -- the only ones with any genuine reliability -- are exit polls made of actual voters as they leave their voting place on election day.

    Those interviews can be strictly filtered to control for turnout and historic precint preference, and because people are unlikely to lie in this context, the results are VERY reliable.

    (BTW -- The 2000 exit polls confirmed Gore winning Florida, and Kerry winning Ohio in 2004.)

    My opinions are not the product of "polls" .

    I wrote what I thought about the 4 acceptance speeches before hearing any talking heads or polls. (and in general I don't see much of them).
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/05/2008 at 09:01 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7. #327  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Sitting here sweating on one of the few generator runs we will do today, I find myself wondering which presidential candidate has noticed the effects of Gustav on Louisiana. At this point in Katrina, the national news had Aaron Broussard making up stories while crying hysterically on MSNBC. Brownie had done a heck of a job. All I've seen nationally of Gustav was Katie Couric waiting ghoulishly in New Orleans, and when the levees didn't break there, she hightailed it out of there and went cover the RNC and a Cancer benefit. Ah, who cares about that when we can comfortably bicker about minor policy and personality issues?
    Toby,

    Point taken. Looks like the country has moved on. No story there.

    Thanks for bringing me back to earth. Are you at the same address? Seems like a better late than never time to send over those beers. I'll ship them Mon. & hopefully your power returns by the time it arrives so you can cool them down. Hang in there!
  8. #328  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo View Post
    Are you at the same address? Seems like a better late than never time to send over those beers. I'll ship them Mon. & hopefully your power returns by the time it arrives so you can cool them down. Hang in there!
    Yep, still at the same address. Power is finally back on here. There are still more than the population of New Orleans proper without, though. Current estimates don't have 90% restoration until the 14th, and 100% could be almost October. Gus was not a 'news-worthy' killer, but he brought damage the likes of which had never been seen where he passed.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9. #329  
    Maybe I'm being more paronoid than usual, but I fear that I may have been part of the reason there have been so few recent posts in the forum --

    (if true, its safe to come out to play again ... )

    FWIW -- my gloomy, angry, and heartfelt recent rant was not directed toward anything anyone here has been saying or has said -- that post was entirely an expression of my own very unhappy frustration at the state of the election as I'm seeing it. I ought have made that more clear.

    speaking for myself, I like it when everyone shares about everything -- without inhibition or intimidation.

    I learn much more by hearing from those i disagree with, than just hearing from myself or those who agree with me.

    And I especally appreciate the mostly respectful way folks have argued and discussed things recently around here.

    (I'll shut up now...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/07/2008 at 02:28 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  10. #330  
    And the clock still ticks on Obama - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,2234082.story.

    Have any of you looked at his involvement with the Chicago chapter of Public Allies? Take a look at Investor Business Daily. An interesting comment may be found from a former member if one looks far enough into it - racially motivated.

    Troopergate - anyone taken the time to look further in to that for the real details? of course not.

    Seems like the public was as interested in McCain's speech as it was it Obama's.

    Seem's like...

    Keep agreeing with yourselves while the rest of the world looks at the real issues.
  11. #331  
    Interesting editorial on the impact of a potential Palin vice presidency - it probably sums up my feelings better than I stated:

    http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/27964474.html


    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    And the clock still ticks on Obama - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,2234082.story.
    Well, I was particularly struck by: "A partial examination of the documents did not reveal anything startling about the link between Obama, the Democratic presidential contender, and Ayers."

    Have any of you looked at his involvement with the Chicago chapter of Public Allies? Take a look at Investor Business Daily. An interesting comment may be found from a former member if one looks far enough into it - racially motivated.
    Yeah, that stuff is pretty funny, actually. It includes an editorial that says that "[the Obamas] plan to herd American youth into government-funded reeducation camps where they'll be brainwashed into thinking America is a racist, oppressive place in need of "social change"

    Of course, there is no evidence of this, unless you count such fun lines as:
    "The Obamas discourage work in the private sector. "Don't go into corporate America," Michelle has exhorted youth. "Work for the community. Be social workers." Shun the "money culture," Barack added. "Individual salvation depends on collective salvation." "

    Wow, work in service to others rather than serving the needs of corporations....radical stuff.

    Troopergate - anyone taken the time to look further in to that for the real details? of course not.
    Yes, that's the problem. It doesn't get any less troubling when you do.

    There is an audiotape of a phone call between Frank Bailey, the governor's director of boards and commissions, and trooper Lt. Rodney Dial, the state troopers' liaison to the Legislature. Bailey was recorded saying "Todd and Sarah are scratching their heads, 'why on earth hasn't, why is this guy still representing the department?'" and "I'm telling you honestly, you know, she really likes Walt [Monegan] a lot, but on this issue, she feels like it's, she doesn't know why there is absolutely no action for a year on this issue. It's very, very troubling to her and the family. I could definitely relay that".

    It was revealed that the call included information from Wooten's personnel file, and the McCain / Palin campaign claims that the information came from Todd Palin.

    There were also over two dozen calls from Palin's staff to Monegan about this matter.

    Seems that there is certainly evidence that the Palin's were exerting influence on this Trooper matter, and trying to get Wooten fired. I'm reserving my own judgment until the matter is settled, but there certainly is some evidence that is troubling.

    Last edited by Bujin; 09/07/2008 at 09:54 AM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  12. #332  
    And now http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200...politico/13217 - this man has serious issues. Only after substantial criticism does he elaborate. What a pattern here.

    As for Troopergate - I notice you mention nothing about the trooper's actions, his performance and related items. These are all issues that must be taken under consideration. The man was dangerous and did not meet department standards.

    Something none of us picked up also: Russia a long way from Alaska - well, it is in the article. As a note, his high school education in Hawaii was at a nationally recognized school. His college education was at a nationally recognized school. His work though, well...
  13. #333  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    ... while the rest of the world looks at the real issues.
    Yes. Let's all look at the issues. Let's start with the economy:

    Provide Middle Class Americans Tax Relief

    Obama will cut income taxes by $1,000 for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay.

    * Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.
    * Eliminate Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less than $50,000: Barack Obama will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This proposal will eliminate income taxes for 7 million seniors and provide these seniors with an average savings of $1,400 each year. Under the Obama plan, 27 million American seniors will also not need to file an income tax return.
    * Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: Obama will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.
  14. #334  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post

    As for Troopergate - I notice you mention nothing about the trooper's actions, his performance and related items. These are all issues that must be taken under consideration. The man was dangerous and did not meet department standards.
    The department has its own processes to deal with such matters. The trooper's certainly did things that were inappropriate, and was disciplined by his superiors for it. The governor was told that it had been handled and that it wasn't within her authority to intervene. She continued to push the issue, which she wouldn't have done if it wasn't for the family connection. The fact is that there were very different opinions as to the extent of his actions, and she apparently pushed Monegan to act on the family's side of the story only. If you've ever managed staff, you would know that disciplinary actions can't be arbitrary or capricious, and have to be in line with prior discipline given for similar acts by others.

    Something none of us picked up also: Russia a long way from Alaska - well, it is in the article.
    Did you actually read the article? There was nothing that alleged that Obama didn't know that Russia was near Alaska, but rather that the mere fact that they are close doesn't make her an expert in foreign policy; after all, she had no actual dealings with Russia. Nor did she ever issue a single command to the Alaska National Guard, which she stated was a large part of her responsibility as governor.

    There are places for real issue debate in this election, but it would be much more productive, and you would have much more credibility, if you wouldn't focus on half-read accounts bashing Obama, and perhaps talking about how McCain-Palin would benefit us and provide change if they were elected. Just free advice, feel free to ignore it.
    Last edited by Bujin; 09/07/2008 at 03:13 PM.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  15. #335  
    Provide Middle Class Americans Tax Relief
    Just out of curiosity, what is the total loss the government will see in taxes from the middle class as it compares to say the upper class increase? Are they even?

    Experts estimate that the Obama proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.
    According to Wikipedia, annually, tax preparation fees for business and personal purposes ranges between $250-$300 billion dollars.

    Essentially, you appear to be “boasting” of a .8% savings. In more useful numbers, if I paid $5,000 in taxes, a .8% savings would be a total of $40.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  16. #336  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what is the total loss the government will see in taxes from the middle class as it compares to say the upper class increase? Are they even?
    According to the LA Times: "The total price tag of Obama's plans, according to his campaign, is $130 billion a year. On top of that, Obama is proposing a middle-class tax cut of about $80 billion a year.

    Obama's campaign says the new spending would be more than offset by cuts to existing federal programs and other savings."

    I don't know if that answers your questions.
    Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy

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  17. #337  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bujin View Post
    According to the LA Times: "The total price tag of Obama's plans, according to his campaign, is $130 billion a year. On top of that, Obama is proposing a middle-class tax cut of about $80 billion a year.

    Obama's campaign says the new spending would be more than offset by cuts to existing federal programs and other savings."

    I don't know if that answers your questions.
    Let me make sure I got this right . . .

    $130 billion per year costs, as in more?

    And then a loss of $80 billion from tax money?

    If that's right, then we are looking at the need for $210 billion from somewhere, right? Or did I butcher that? I'm not sure I fully got you, but I'll look for the LA Times article in the mean time.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  18. #338  
    I had it right. Here's the article:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,5470706.story


    He intends to gain about $90 billion per year by ending the war in Iraq.

    So, according to the article, there isn't any major government "waste" going to be redirected. Instead, it is the Iraq war and

    "His plan reallocates what we're spending today on the war in Iraq and wasteful and low-priority government programs into higher-priority investments in our future," said Jason Furman, Obama's economic policy director.

    What low-priority programs and how much are they worth?
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  19. #339  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Sitting here sweating on one of the few generator runs we will do today, I find myself wondering which presidential candidate has noticed the effects of Gustav on Louisiana. At this point in Katrina, the national news had Aaron Broussard making up stories while crying hysterically on MSNBC. Brownie had done a heck of a job. All I've seen nationally of Gustav was Katie Couric waiting ghoulishly in New Orleans, and when the levees didn't break there, she hightailed it out of there and went cover the RNC and a Cancer benefit. Ah, who cares about that when we can comfortably bicker about minor policy and personality issues?
    You're fighting popular opinion, which appears to be that Katrina was a warning and anyone still there is tempting the gods. The apparent ineptitude in funds dispersement has only exacerbated that attitude. New Orleans' impact on American culture over ~300 years is overlooked; rather it's seen as the embodiment of corruption and incompetence of the current administration. A lack of understand as to the purpose of the Federal Government doesn't help, either.

    Now, if the Patriots played there you'd have all the funding you could want. Your Saints are going to have be more convincing than their win today...something more akin to Philly's decisive victory.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  20. #340  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    ...What low-priority programs and how much are they worth?
    I, as an American, can't be bothered with this level of information. It's enough you know that he's taking money away from bad things and spending it on good things. It's not like it's your money.
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.

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