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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Anything else of substance?
    Ah....that's what I was asking you. Didn't think so. hahahaha
    Iago

    "Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash . . . But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him
    And makes me poor indeed."


    Criminal: A person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
    - Howard Scott
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iago View Post
    Do you consider a president with a 28 percent approval rating successful?
    Why not? Sure 28 is low, but then again according to Wikipedia:

    GWB also holds the record for the highest approval rating (92), the highest difference (73) along with the highest disapproval rating (69).

    The man is all over the board; I think that reflects more a fickle people than a problem with the President himself. As I see it, the more going on during a presidency the more obvious that fickleness becomes.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Why not? Sure 28 is low, but then again according to Wikipedia:

    GWB also holds the record for the highest approval rating (92), the highest difference (73) along with the highest disapproval rating (69).

    The man is all over the board; I think that reflects more a fickle people than a problem with the President himself. As I see it, the more going on during a presidency the more obvious that fickleness becomes.
    Let me guess... the 90 came right after 9/11?

    Yes, the man is all over the board... if this were a dem, I have NO DOUBT that you would assail him/her for not being consistent. In addition, you would note that at the time of 9/11 almost anyone could have been in office and had a 90% approval ratings... heck, almost everyone on my block had up an American flag... In my life I've never seen so many people so patriotic... it was strange.

    Bush took advantage of that time as well... but that is another thread....

    The approval ratings for bush have been in the toilet for years now.... I don't think history will look favoribly to his presidency.... Clinton will definitely receive glowing remarks on his presidency... with a note he had sex in the whitehouse and lied about it... but bush will have many marks on his record....
    Last edited by theog; 04/27/2008 at 11:08 AM.
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  4. #24  
    Theog, Clinton glowing remarks on his presidency? We have seen none so far. Even as America's first black president, those remarks are haunting him now.

    Ben
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    .... Clinton will definitely receive glowing remarks on his presidency... with a note he had sex in the whitehouse and lied about it... but bush will have many marks on his record....
    Of course there is probably a tab somewhere on his record that he was one of the few Presidents to be Impeached for committing perjury while in office.
  6. #26  
    Yes and his ignoring the build up of Islamic terrorism, which is not quite as bad, but not far from it, as Bush and his ignoring the border and immigration issues.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Why not? Sure 28 is low, but then again according to Wikipedia:

    GWB also holds the record for the highest approval rating (92), the highest difference (73) along with the highest disapproval rating (69).

    The man is all over the board; I think that reflects more a fickle people than a problem with the President himself. As I see it, the more going on during a presidency the more obvious that fickleness becomes.
    Wow. Self delusion is quite your talent. The highest approval ratings came right after 9-11, going into Afghanistan, which most people including myself supported. It was the lying their way into Iraq that reversed that.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Yes and his ignoring the build up of Islamic terrorism, which is not quite as bad, but not far from it, as Bush and his ignoring the border and immigration issues.
    The Clinton administration handed intell and a plan on attacking Bin Laden in Afghanistan and the Bush administration ignored it.

    Mr Clarke, who stayed on in his job as White House counter-terrorism tsar, repeated his briefing for vice president **** Cheney in February. However, the proposals got lost in the clumsy transition process, turf wars between departments and the separate agendas of senior members of the Bush administration.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Let me guess... the 90 came right after 9/11?
    Correct. Then again, the top four ALL had a major event (war/bombing) near the time of their highest rating (of which two were Rep and two were Dem).

    Yes, the man is all over the board... if this were a dem, I have NO DOUBT that you would assail him/her for not being consistent.
    Then your "NO DOUBT" is wrong. I would never judge the mark of a good presidency based on public perspective. Why? There are too many externalities that play into public perspective that should not (media, partisan politics, etc).

    If your determination of a successful president is based upon their approval rating, then you and I have very different ideas on "success."

    In addition, you would note that at the time of 9/11 almost anyone could have been in office and had a 90% approval ratings
    Thank you for backing up my point, approval ratings have their merit--a successful presidency isn't one of them.

    I don't think history will look favoribly to his presidency
    We'll just have to see won't we?
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  10. #30  
    I suggest people (particularly those intent on seeing Bush as the worst) read the following article:

    http://writ.news.findlaw.com/scripts.../20010511.html

    Here are some notable excerpst (in italics):

    "Not only is ranking the presidents a game, it is one without any real rules."

    Now, about those rankings of Bush . . . you know where I am so delusional to cite the highest, lowest and greatest difference as mere fickleness . . .

    "Those ranked as failures are constantly changing their positions, both up and down."

    "Meanwhile, everyone's long-time worst president, Warren G. Harding is anything but a role model for failure.
    Indeed, at the time of his death in office, he was widely respected and greatly loved."

    WHAT? He was "immensely popular" in office, yet managed to become one of the least successful presidents.

    So. What reasonable stock then shall we put in the approval ratings of Bush then while still in office? History shows that approval ratings don't tell the final story and that same "final" story isn't always so final.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Theog, Clinton glowing remarks on his presidency? We have seen none so far. Even as America's first black president, those remarks are haunting him now.

    Ben

    There you go with your "remarks" again... you can't leave it alone can you?

    What remarks are haunting him now? Can you explain further?
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  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Of course there is probably a tab somewhere on his record that he was one of the few Presidents to be Impeached for committing perjury while in office.

    But he was acquitted.

    I already acknowledge that issue was a problem... the way we are going I'm not sure it will matter much to future generations... both dem and rep can't seem to keep the pants on.

    But I guess in the future, they will look at the totality of the administration.
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  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Then your "NO DOUBT" is wrong. I would never judge the mark of a good presidency based on public perspective. Why? There are too many externalities that play into public perspective that should not (media, partisan politics, etc).
    Right... more like this does not work in my favor right now... lol


    We'll just have to see won't we?
    I guess... but it will still be open to interpretation... I'll say he is terrible, along with hardcore dems and some of my fellow swing voters... hardcore republicans will say he was great along with some other swing voters. There will be a group that don't care.
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  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    But he was acquitted.
    Yup...the charge for perjury and the charge for obstructing justice were acquitted due to votes along party lines. Which basically means he was the first elected President to be Impeached, and the second President to be Impeached. Both Impeached Presidents reamained to finish their terms though.

    He also settled the charge of the civil contempt of court for his "willful failure" to obey her repeated orders to testify truthfully in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit when it was proposed to confirm the investigation for discipline actions that might be required. His last day in office Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension of his Arkansas law license as part of an agreement with the independent counsel to end the investigation. He also was automatically suspended from the United States Supreme Court bar, from which he then chose to resign.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeach...f_Bill_Clinton
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Almost everything you pick has a problem. Katrina - was that not a democrat running the state and the major refusing to do anything? Sure the federal government could have moved a bit faster, but what about the local and state governments - they did nothing - do you remember that?
    The events surrounding Katrina were far more complex than either sound bite side would like to believe. Ultimately the lion's share of the fault was with the US Corps of Engineers and to a lesser extent the Charlie Foxtrot of the local levee boards. Nagin and Blanco deserve some blame for not being more active in evacuating _before_ the storm. Bush and the feds deserve a significant chunk of blame for not being more active in mobilizing _after_ the storm. They deserve even more blame for Louisiana not having a significant portion of our National Guard forces and equipment available to handle it ourselves. You really don't want to start down this road.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    The events surrounding Katrina were far more complex than either sound bite side would like to believe. Ultimately the lion's share of the fault was with the US Corps of Engineers and to a lesser extent the Charlie Foxtrot of the local levee boards. Nagin and Blanco deserve some blame for not being more active in evacuating _before_ the storm. Bush and the feds deserve a significant chunk of blame for not being more active in mobilizing _after_ the storm. They deserve even more blame for Louisiana not having a significant portion of our National Guard forces and equipment available to handle it ourselves. You really don't want to start down this road.
    beyond deferring to your knowledge on all this -- I'm certain if Katrina had befallen Galveston (which it once did) or Houston -- junior would have mobilized heaven and earth to help the people and rebuild those communities.
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/28/2008 at 11:54 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17.    #37  
    Now....back on topic.....

    Here are some of thoughts....First of all I am still fluid in some of my thoughts on this topic.

    John McCain -- I think some of the textbook choices would be Romney, Powell, or Rice. There are Pros and Cons to each.

    • Romney -- Pros economic experience validation. Strong contender in primary race. Cons religious misunderstandings & slandering & rivalry.
    • Powell -- Pros Takes out the race card with Obama. I think he is generally respected. Cons ties to Bush Admin and Iraq.
    • Rice -- Pros Takes out the gender card with Hillary and Race card with Obama. She is generally highly respected on the Right (many wanted her to run for the top of the ticket). Cons ties to Bush Admin and Iraq.

    I never thought of Lieberman, but I would have voted for him last election, if he was on the top of the Dem ticket. That would make for a VERY interesting race, if he was VP on the Rep ticket. If those Dems who say they will not vote either Hillary or for Obama if their person is not on the ticket, this could give them that bit of justification that they might need to show their displeasure with the Dem race without feeling too guilty for not voting Dem.

    I would be fine with any of the options I just listed.

    Hillary Clinton & Barack Obama -- I too could see Hillary & Obama feeling EXTREMELY pressured to offer it to other. I think they both would take it too, for the same reason.....They are politically savvy and they certainly recognize that it sets them up for a guaranteed run for President in 8 years.....with NO questions about experience the next time around.

    If not that, truthfully I am not sure. Edwards is a possibility, but I think he might not be as appealing to all of the Dem base.

    Lieberman again might be an option. The spin would be that there are hopefully a lot of Reps that are not happy with McCain as an option and might feel better about not voting for him if they can justify that they are voting for Lieberman as VP instead.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    beyond deferring to your knowledge on all this -- I'm certain if Katrina had befallen Galveston (which it once did) or Houston -- junior would have mobilized heaven and earth to help the people and rebuild those communities.
    If so, only because they're in Texas. The first difference is that the devastation in NOLA was not due to Katrina as a hurricane. While Katrina was quite a powerful and large storm when it was in the Gulf, by the time it made landfall, NOLA was on the 'good side' of it, and experienced Category 1 or 2 conditions _at_worst_. Secondly, the Mississippi Gulf Coast took much more hurricane related damage, and they've not made any more progress than the NOLA area.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  19. #39  
    Barye is really in to blaming things - notice he says nothing about the lay of the land, the typography, elevation, various other words to describe the New Orleans area. If he can blame a republican for anything, then he will type himself blind doing it.

    Ben
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Barye is really in to blaming things - notice he says nothing about the lay of the land, the typography, elevation, various other words to describe the New Orleans area.
    ITYM topography. Don't words count? Less ad hominem. More substance, please.
    If he can blame a republican for anything, then he will type himself blind doing it.
    You two are peas in a pod, then. They should give you a Crossfire forum.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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