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  1.    #1  
    Do words count any more?

    Obama one time yelled that words do count. Get Obama away from his teleprompter and he stumbles really bad. When he stumbles really bad, his words no longer count, his supporters come in trying to explain/justify what he said, and anyone that questions him is called a bigot, racist, and well, each of you knows exactly what is being stated.

    When someone else stumbles and says a no-no, that person gets bashed really bad - that person's words do count.

    So the question - do the words Obama utters count? Should those wods be taken at face value, like the words he uttered slamming middle America, slamming religion, and bunches of other slams he has made? Does everyone have to come and justify the trash and hatred he utters and then has to take a back step to when he places himself in a corner?
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Do words count any more?

    Obama one time yelled that words do count. Get Obama away from his teleprompter and he stumbles really bad. When he stumbles really bad, his words no longer count, his supporters come in trying to explain/justify what he said, and anyone that questions him is called a bigot, racist, and well, each of you knows exactly what is being stated.

    When someone else stumbles and says a no-no, that person gets bashed really bad - that person's words do count.

    So the question - do the words Obama utters count? Should those wods be taken at face value, like the words he uttered slamming middle America, slamming religion, and bunches of other slams he has made? Does everyone have to come and justify the trash and hatred he utters and then has to take a back step to when he places himself in a corner?
    Ben, you must be bored today. Trolling trolling trolling. What surprise coming from you.

    His words should be examined just anyone running for office should be examined.

    He "slammed" religion? Where? Please quote. He "slammed" middle America uh? Where? Please quote.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Ben, you must be bored today. Trolling trolling trolling. What surprise coming from you.

    His words should be examined just anyone running for office should be examined.

    He "slammed" religion? Where? Please quote. He "slammed" middle America uh? Where? Please quote.
    I could be wrong, but I believe bclinger is referring to the following:

    "You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

    You will probably assert that this isn't a slam on any of the above and then proceed to explain away.

    At face value, his words are damning to religion and people in middle America and I will explain . . .

    As stated by the great Barack, it appears the only value that religion, guns and certain sentiments on immigration carry is, "when all else fails." Such a sentiment quintessentially calls these voters idiots for their incapablility to materialize there vote on anthing else. Rather than acknowledge and simply say, "Yes, these issues just so happen to be important to these voters" instead Barack gets on his high horse and disparages them on the basis that they are bitter.

    This is just one of the ways we can tell Barack isn't in anyway in touch with much of middle America--he simply asserts his own perspective upon them and leaves it at that.


    EDIT: I see you are already embroiled in a conversation over this very thing in another thread here. In light of that, I will not argue any of your positions here (to minimize redundancy)--that is unless you actually feel the need to engage in discourse.
    Last edited by DL.Cummings; 04/17/2008 at 02:37 PM.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

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  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    I will explain . . .
    Best person to explain what he meant is the person himself.

    Armchair analyst tend to make up stuff to fit whatever agenda they have going on at the time.


    EDIT: In light of that, I will not argue any of your positions here (to minimize redundancy)--that is unless you actually feel the need to engage in discourse.
    Thank god for that....
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  5. #5  
    Seriously. Hardly a slam to middle America. Try the Weather Underground smear instead. It's got more traction.

  6. #6  
    Get Obama away from his teleprompter and he stumbles really bad.
    Not really… guess you have not seen any of his impromptu speeches or remarks? No, did not think so

    anyone that questions him is called a bigot, racist, and well, each of you knows exactly what is being stated.
    100% not true. Although, if someone questions him and makes a stupid remark on top of the question, their “agenda” is questioned. And then you know the media – the part you are missing – the media loves a good juicy story. Headlines, headlines….

    2006 Honda accord for sale.

    2006 Honda Accord, low miles, 1 elderly owner, all maintenance records.

    Read those two headlines… which will get more clicks from people looking for an Accord?

    At any rate, you have to wonder if some comments, even if 100% correct and not meant to be racist are a tad bit racist. Or even those who make comments about Hillary being called out for having misogynistic beliefs. I think there is a thin line there… of course race and gender plays a role. Each camp (and their supporters) will play it up to a certain degree.

    those wods be taken at face value, like the words he uttered slamming middle America, slamming religion, and bunches of other slams he has made?
    This seems to be already being discussed in great dept in another thread.

    Does everyone have to come and justify the trash and hatred he utters and then has to take a back step to when he places himself in a corner?
    To a certain point, Obama is Mr. clean… his “hatred” is not hatred.

    Point… give me six months of giving speeches, almost daily, and tell me if you don’t slip. If obama were perfect, I think we would have a major issue.

    Hillary slips… Mccain slips…. Bush slips were made into an ENTIRE book. I think you are more mad at how it is handled than anything else. You want obama slammed against the wall and taken out back....

    I may not vote for obama, but as a veteran, I’m at least over 60% that he believes in some of the stuff he is talking about. It fits… he has tried to help people his entire life. It is his background. Does his plans fit “my” agenda… I don’t know (more like mccain needs to get his "crap" together).

    Baseless attacks will put obama in the white house. I can almost guarantee that. Mccain is not going to mess with obama... hillary does not either... if it goes too ugly, hillary has a very ugly history... and "Mr. Ethics" Mccain has issues that derailed his past presidential bid.
    Last edited by theog; 04/17/2008 at 03:16 PM.
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Best person to explain what he meant is the person himself.

    That might work, but the left in this country have created an atmosphere where what counts is how words are received, not how they are intended.

    To be fair, I don't necessarily agree with such an attitude but . . . what goes around comes around.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Point… give me six months of giving speeches, almost daily, and tell me if you don’t slip. If obama were perfect, I think we would have a major issue.

    Hillary slips… Mccain slips…. Bush slips were made into an ENTIRE book. I think you are more mad at how it is handled than anything else. You want obama slammed against the wall and taken out back....
    Be fair here, the comparison isn't even the same.

    Bush's slips were primarily spoonerisms, which effectively made him a great target of humor. People knew EXACTLY what he intended to say as opposed to Obama's comments which were wide open for interpretation.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Be fair here, the comparison isn't even the same.

    Bush's slips were primarily spoonerisms, which effectively made him a great target of humor. People knew EXACTLY what he intended to say as opposed to Obama's comments which were wide open for interpretation.
    That is the scary part... sometimes I think he said EXACTLY what he wanted to say and people wanted to hear different.

    But I get your point, you are correct.

    My point was that Bush did make some mistakes, as did every other politician on the trail. Obama is no different... mistakes will be made when you are talking and giving that many speeches in a short period of time.

    Hell, McCain called himself a Liberal Republican!!!!! (He did quickly correct himself though.)
    Last edited by theog; 04/17/2008 at 04:07 PM.
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  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Hell, McCain called himself a Liberal Republican!!!!! (He did quickly correct himself though.)

    If I recall correctly, McCain has made several of the same mistakes in a row (referring to various sects I believe). I've heard from various pundits that when the "rubber meets the road" he indeed is free of those mistakes, but wow.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    If I recall correctly, McCain has made several of the same mistakes in a row (referring to various sects I believe). I've heard from various pundits that when the "rubber meets the road" he indeed is free of those mistakes, but wow.
    Actually, I think McCain's statements about al Qaeda being trained in Iran might have been accurate. At least Hamas-Iraq (a Sunni group which is working with the US against al Qaeda) says so:
    http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD189008
    Salah Al-Din accused Al-Qaeda of being subservient to Iran, [claiming] that they had [extensive] evidence to that effect. He said: 'We found Iranian [currency], toman, at an Al-Qaeda headquarters that we uncovered. We have also captured Iranian weapons, not to mention audio and video recordings containing announcements by Al-Qaeda fighters that they had received training in Iranian military camps and that Al-Qaeda wounded were being transported to Iran for medical treatment.'
    After McCain originally said this, Lieberman whispered something to him, and he backtracked. I suspect Lieberman told him that this was either an unconfirmed report or was confidential. They're both on the Armed Services Committee, and likely would have been briefed on the latest intelligence.

    And a lot of people made a big deal about how al Qaeda is Sunni and Iran is Shiite and couldn't possibly support them. But the 9-11 Commission confirmed that Iran was training al Qaeda since long before the Iraq war. The Sunni-Shiite thing isn't a barrier to cooperation.


    McCain did flub during the Petraeus hearings, when he implied that al Qaeda was a Shiite sect, and then corrected himself.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Actually, I think McCain's statements about al Qaeda being trained in Iran might have been accurate...
    to imagine Iran training Al Queda reveals a frightening level of ignorance by McCain.

    Al Queda believes in a hard core, pure version of Saudi Islam.

    They hate America, Israel, Jews, Christians, the rulers of govt's like Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia -- and Shiites.

    They REALLY hate Shiites.

    Blowing up and massacreing the Shiites apostates -- those filthy non-believers -- is a certain path to paradise.

    Shiites, Iranian Shiites in particular -- hate the Taliban -- and really hate Al Queda.

    Someone ought to get these GOP idiots a subscription to basic cable -- get them to watch The History Channel -- maybe they can learn something inspite of themselves ...
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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Al Queda believes in a hard core, pure version of Saudi Islam.
    And that's where I stopped listening to your rant...

    There is no such thing as "Saudi Islam". Saudis are Sunnis (90%).

    Actually, it's tough to classify any one country as Sunni/Shiia/Wahhabi/etc...

    Iraq is predominantly Shiite (57%), Iran is predominantly Shiite (89%), Afghanistan is predominantly Sunni (80%), Al Qaeda is predominantly Sunni. Yes, the two groups hate each other. However, saying that Al Qaeda may have received training in Iran is not too hard to fathom. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

    Make no mistake, they hate the west more.
    "Whenever I feel like exercise I lie down until the feeling passes."
    -Robert Maynard Hutchins


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  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by phrogpilot73 View Post
    And that's where I stopped listening to your rant...

    There is no such thing as "Saudi Islam". Saudis are Sunnis (90%).

    Actually, it's tough to classify any one country as Sunni/Shiia/Wahhabi/etc...

    Iraq is predominantly Shiite (57%), Iran is predominantly Shiite (89%), Afghanistan is predominantly Sunni (80%), Al Qaeda is predominantly Sunni. Yes, the two groups hate each other. However, saying that Al Qaeda may have received training in Iran is not too hard to fathom. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

    Make no mistake, they hate the west more.
    Wahhabist Islam -- which is what Saudi Arabia aggressively proselytizes and promulgates -- has been one of the most intolerant and destructive branches of Islam.

    Al Queda and Bin Laden are practitioners of that orthodoxy.

    The Iranians have more than enough other friends and fiends to find common cause with, without looking to share beds with the Taliban or Al Queda.
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/17/2008 at 07:34 PM.
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    In light of that, I will not argue any of your positions here (to minimize redundancy)--that is unless you actually feel the need to engage in discourse.
    Given the posture you've taken, I doubt that any "discourse" would be possible.

    So let me just Fox-News-ize this for you - The guy clearly hates religious people and those that own guns. Oh yea, don't forget the whole "he hates white people" schtick. Oh and he doesn't wear a flag pin so he must hate America too.

  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    to imagine Iran training Al Queda reveals a frightening level of ignorance by McCain.

    Al Queda believes in a hard core, pure version of Saudi Islam.

    They hate America, Israel, Jews, Christians, the rulers of govt's like Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia -- and Shiites.

    They REALLY hate Shiites.

    Blowing up and massacreing the Shiites apostates -- those filthy non-believers -- is a certain path to paradise.

    Shiites, Iranian Shiites in particular -- hate the Taliban -- and really hate Al Queda.

    Someone ought to get these GOP idiots a subscription to basic cable -- get them to watch The History Channel -- maybe they can learn something inspite of themselves ...
    So the History Channel is where you get your information?

    I prefer that our Senators get briefed from better sources.



    9/11 Commission Report, p. 61
    Turabi sought to persuade Shiites and Sunnis to put aside their divisions and join against the common enemy. In late 1991 or 1992, discussions in Sudan between al Qaeda and Iranian operatives led to an informal agreement to cooperate in providing support—even if only training—for actions carried out primarily against Israel and the United States.Not long afterward, senior al Qaeda operatives and trainers traveled to Iran to receive training in explosives. In the fall of 1993, another such delegation went to the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon for further training in explosives as well as in intelligence and security. Bin Ladin reportedly showed particular interest in learning how to use truck bombs such as the one that had killed 241 U.S. Marines in Lebanon in 1983.The relationship between al Qaeda and Iran demonstrated that Sunni-Shia divisions did not necessarily pose an insurmountable barrier to cooperation in terrorist operations. As will be described in chapter 7, al Qaeda contacts with Iran continued in ensuing years.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Given the posture you've taken, I doubt that any "discourse" would be possible.
    Ditto.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    So the History Channel is where you get your information?

    I prefer that our Senators get briefed from better sources.
    Sadly, basic cable is not available in my cave.

    As a recourse, I just have to resort to making my facts up.

    But as for McCain and the other GOPiots. I'd be pleased if they even watched the Simpson's and managed to learn something other than their own canned and regurgitated orthordoxy.
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/18/2008 at 04:06 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Try the Weather Underground smear instead. It's got more traction.

    I must be showing my youth and naivete . When I heard this mentioned on the morning news, I thought they were refering TO THIS. I thought maybe I had a bad gadget in my signature.

    Thanks to google, I now realize they weren't

    Ok, back to topic
    Vinnie
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by john_v View Post
    I must be showing my youth and naivete . When I heard this mentioned on the morning news, I thought they were refering TO THIS. I thought maybe I had a bad gadget in my signature.

    Thanks to google, I now realize they weren't

    Ok, back to topic
    Funny you should bring up age... Obama was 8 when all this happened.... I agree with obama, it is ridiculous... unless you want to grasp at straws... why not bring up every person every candidate has ever been associated with.... think we would all be fairly surprised.

    Obama was questioned about his association with a former member of the Weather Underground, a radical group that had bombed U.S. government buildings in the early 1960s.

    He said the values of everyone he has ever associated with cannot be automatically assumed to be the same as his.

    "The notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense," he said.
    Maybe they should ask clinton about whitewater... or why she did not leave her husband after he cheated and then lied...

    Obviously, abc did the job that was needed... they put obama under a microscope and made him answer some hard questions. I think it was needed and appropriate... if anyone think not, then they need to remember three numbers: 527. Sooner or later everything about obama is going to be in the airwaves and in print for everyone to see. Ditto McCain.

    Interesting enough though:

    Obama: Let's campaign, not have more debates


    Sen. Barack Obama suggested Thursday that he doesn't see any point in having another debate with Democratic rival Sen. Hillary Clinton.


    Wednesday's debate on ABC may be the final face-off between Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

    1 of 2 Clinton has agreed to a debate next week, but Obama has not accepted the invitation.

    At an appearance in Raleigh, North Carolina, Obama said he has a lot of campaigning to do in a limited amount of time.

    Obama said he had agreed to an earlier debate, but Clinton declined that one.

    "I'll be honest with you, we've now had 21," he said. "It's not as if we don't know how to do these things. I could deliver Sen. Clinton's lines; she could, I'm sure, deliver mine."
    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/...rap/index.html

    Gets a little "difficult" and he bails out? Is that a bigot or racist statement?
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