Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 95
  1.    #61  
    One other thing - how can increased taxes be good for working Americans? I for one cannot afford to pay increased taxes and corporate America - well, if the taxes get too high, lay offs, jobs shipped over seas, et cetera - HOW can that be good for working Americans? Nothing good comes from robbing one side to give to the other side. When my boss makes money, I make money. When my boss does not make money, I do not have a job.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Wounded how? If you're referring to the Pennsylvania primary, in which a 20 point lead was erased to a 9 point victory then I would say no wounds.

    If you actually read the transcript, it's a reference to the so called Reagen Democrats who repeatedly vote against their economic issues over social issues like gun control repeatedly. When facing an opponent like Hillary who is a leader in the DLC whose goals are to ship good paying manufacturing jobs overseas for cheap labor.



    I don't think there is a rational person that could blame him after that, and yup I'm using the term, lynching.



    The nomination IS OVER. Mathematically Obama leads in the popular vote, number of states, and number of dedicated delegates. Done deal.




    No, he's going to the people of Indiana and North Carolina and speaking to them directly. Debating Hillary is a moot point now.



    Sorry. When was Hillary pummelling(sic) anyone? When Hillary carpet bagged her way to New York office she refused EVERY debate challenge. She's simply throwing this out there to hope for a gaffe during a debate or to use the refusal as an issue. The kitchen sink method is getting old. It's time for the Clintons and the DLC to be put out to pasture by the Democratic party. And the nomination numbers speak to just that.

    It's time for LABOR to be the FORCE behind the Democratic Party once again and dismiss these Corporate Dems like the Clintons.

    Good times are coming for Working Americans.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Wounded how? If you're referring to the Pennsylvania primary, in which a 20 point lead was erased to a 9 point victory then I would say no wounds.

    If you actually read the transcript, it's a reference to the so called Reagen Democrats who repeatedly vote against their economic issues over social issues like gun control repeatedly. When facing an opponent like Hillary who is a leader in the DLC whose goals are to ship good paying manufacturing jobs overseas for cheap labor.

    I don't think there is a rational person that could blame him after that...
    You want to argue this rationally. You want me to get down with you and parse what he actually said -- what he actually meant.

    As though that matters for something.

    You've an emotional connection with Obama. You no doubt empathize with him on a visceral level. You almost certainly have an intellectual and ideological investment in his being the nominee.

    FWIW, I continue to believe she's the better candidate -- the candidate far more likely to be a good and effective President. But I don't permit myself the luxury becoming so obsessed with the person I support that I forget the ultimate goal.

    That goal is getting and using power -- hopefully for good.

    For as long as I can remember its been excruciatingly tough for a Democrat to do that, and I intuitively understand many of the reasons why. I further understand why Obama is likely to have a very hard time succeeding this November -- and all the Novembers that will follow should he be elected President.

    And I understand why the San Fran chit chat was so so hurtful to him. (and you do not).

    When I first heard that story my nostrils stung with that same sickly aroma of burnt toast as when I saw the Fairy Tale video.

    The Chit Chat enables the GOP to define Obama -- to package him in Dukakis’ garb.

    They have all along been searching for a way to encapsulate how they want people to see him. When people hear Obama’s name, they want them to think: Dukakis.

    The GOP is already running on a loop the Chit Chat -- as well as his “racist” pastor’s screechings.

    They couldn’t overtly play the race card. Nor could they easily call him a tax and spend liberal (after the last 8 years of GOP deficits and bridges to nowhere).

    They’ve needed a short hand way to project upon him that “Liberal” label. As being a closet extreme wacko liberal -- beyond just that he has the Senate’s most liberal voting record.

    The Chit Chat and the “Pastor” are their proxies.

    “Elitist” in truth, is just a politically correct code word for “Black Liberal”. (and yes I know she has also used "Elitist").

    In Pa., though he outspent her by much more than 3 to 1 -- Obama still lost most of the working class “Working Americans” you speak so lovingly of, by worse than 70-30.

    I’ve seen some of the ads they both are running in Indiana. I personally like his better. Hers are in the more traditional style -- but as such they may well work better in an unsophisticated place like Indiana.

    If he doesn’t both win Indiana, and do decently among those working class voters, he has trouble ahead with the Super delegates.

    It may not cost him the nomination -- but it well could.
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/28/2008 at 02:52 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The nomination IS OVER. Mathematically Obama leads in the popular vote, number of states, and number of dedicated delegates. Done deal.
    Watching this race, I think this is a little premature. I personally think it is the safest prediction, but not by any means a done deal.

    As I have stated several times....Obama does not have enough state delegates to win the nomination. Period. He will not get enough state delegates to win the nomination. Period. This then comes down to a Super Delegate vote. It depends on what source I look at to see that Obama or Hillary has the most pledged Super Delegate votes. But that is all they are....pledges. They can flop sides. They have already and who knows how many still will. They are not bound by their pledges in any way.

    My prediction has always been that she will not bow out of this race until she loses the Super Delegate vote. If a Clinton has even an underdog chance of winning, they will pull out all the stops to win.
  4.    #64  
    It really is too early to guarantee anything in this race. The party leadership (Yeller Dean) wants the super delegates to make their decision yesterday, they are waiting to see which one messes up the least and their decision, well, it smacks of not keeping in line with the voting public. No matter what, one section of the party will not be happy.

    Another minor thing, has Obama won any of the major states?

    Speaking of section - there are so many groups and none of them are united in anything of substance, i.e., no common goal.
  5. #65  
    I believe that counting on continuing division among Hillary and Obama supporters may be the GOP's best hope for this fall. We will see if it works, but I do not begrudge their attempts to try to fan this flame as much as possible. Its good strategy.
  6. #66  
    It maybe a good strategy, but one I think that largely over exagerated.

    This is not pointed at you Electronique, but I have seen those who keep on insisting that the battle among the Dem candidates are the result of a massive right wing conspiracy.....even here on this forum. I think they are giving WAY too much credit to the right wing.

    The blame needs to be put where it is deserved. There are three main factors why the Dem party is in the situation it is in now:

    1) The Dem parties for Mich and Florida states fully supported moving their primary dates knowing full well at the time that the DNC rules states that their delegates would not count. There is a high likely hood that these delegates, if legitimate, would have already decided the race or set the momentum to have it decided. The Dem party made the rule that a state would lose ALL of their delegates in a situation like this. The state Dem parties supported the move at the time and only started complaining after they were called on it.

    The state Reps Parties also went along with this idea in both states and lost half of their potential state delegates according to their rules.

    2) The way that the Dem party has set up the alignment of state delegates to be awarded during Primaries. See full details of this point here.

    3) Hillary will continue for her own self interest if there is even a slight chance of winning, in spite of the well being of the party.

    All the polls I have seen about the situation have been taken with Dems. They express their own opinions of each candidate, not a regurgitated right wing version of their opinions that was planted in their heads by whispering right wing wackos. The division IS within the Dem party. If they are going to successful in November, they are going to address the realities of their situation and address the root of the problems. The Dems will loose if they try to shift the blame of the Dem controlled race on the Rep party which will then help them ignore and address the real problems.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    You want to argue this rationally. You want me to get down with you and parse what he actually said -- what he actually meant.

    As though that matters for something.

    You've an emotional connection with Obama. You no doubt empathize with him on a visceral level. You almost certainly have an intellectual and ideological investment in his being the nominee.

    FWIW, I continue to believe she's the better candidate -- the candidate far more likely to be a good and effective President. But I don't permit myself the luxury becoming so obsessed with the person I support that I forget the ultimate goal.

    That goal is getting and using power -- hopefully for good.
    My only emotional investment is to NOT see a rank and file founding member of the DLC become president. My first choice was Edwards if you recall. I'm not infatuated with Obama, it's a lesser of two evils as usual.

    This nomination is EXTREMELY important to the future of the Democratic Party. It's the difference between solidifying corporate interests and influence over the party or returning to supporting the working class in this country and yes, the two are mutually exclusive.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    My only emotional investment is to NOT see a rank and file founding member of the DLC become president. My first choice was Edwards if you recall. I'm not infatuated with Obama, it's a lesser of two evils as usual.

    This nomination is EXTREMELY important to the future of the Democratic Party. It's the difference between solidifying corporate interests and influence over the party or returning to supporting the working class in this country and yes, the two are mutually exclusive.

    No the choice is between the dems and the forces of darkness --

    Between the forces of decency and good -- versus the spawn of Hell.

    You know I believe that she is as or more progressive, than Obama. And much more likely to be effective.

    The spawn of Hell knows what is at stake, even when the left does not.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    You know I believe that she is as or more progressive, than Obama.
    Please familiarize yourself with the DLC then perhaps we can have a more informed discussion.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Please familiarize yourself with the DLC then perhaps we can have a more informed discussion.
    been there done that
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    been there done that
    I doubt it. Calling someone in the DLC a progressive is well, backwards day.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I doubt it. Calling someone in the DLC a progressive is well, backwards day.
    I know of her history from way back to understand what she wants to acheive, the good she intends

    Your mind is closed -- you cannot see her except as the spawn of the DLC (she is not)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  13.    #73  
    The democratic party really has no central core - no common goal. One group wants this, another that; one group does not get what it wants ...

    Hillary openly defines herself as a progressive; however, Obama is right there with her. They both want an increase in government interference/control and believe the common person is incapable of doing it on their own. Since when has the government been able to solve anything?
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Your mind is closed -- you cannot see her except as the spawn of the DLC (she is not)
    Stating my mind is closed because I disagree with the "corporations before people" philosophy of the DLC is unfair. I can see quite clearly what this approach by BOTH parties has done to the working class in this country and how it is destroying the middle class and creating an hour-glass society.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    ...
    Hillary openly defines herself as a progressive; however, Obama is right there with her. ...
    You see daT -- Ben says she's progressive --

    I rest my case...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Stating my mind is closed because I disagree with the "corporations before people" philosophy of the DLC is unfair. I can see quite clearly what this approach by BOTH parties has done to the working class in this country and how it is destroying the middle class and creating an hour-glass society.
    politically its suicide to run a national campaign predicated on your agenda

    Unless your agenda is to feel good about yourself every 4 years...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    You see daT -- Ben says she's progressive --

    I rest my case...
    Again, the term political progressive and the DLC are mutually exclusive but I'll leave you to believe what you will.
  18.    #78  
    Barye, your line of reasoning, well, you claim others are closed minded, if mine is closed, yours is screwed tight.

    As for progressive, look it up and go from there. They are both progressives, she admits it, he does not and of the 2, he is much more radical.

    Ben
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    politically its suicide to run a national campaign predicated on your agenda

    Unless your agenda is to feel good about yourself every 4 years...
    Yea, a political campaign based on keeping good paying manufacturing jobs here is certainly suicide.

  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Yea, a political campaign based on keeping good paying manufacturing jobs here is certainly suicide.

    and how many national elections has your side won recently ???
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/28/2008 at 01:31 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions