View Poll Results: Who Is Currently Our Number One Enemy? (and why)

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • China

    9 36.00%
  • Iraq

    0 0%
  • Iran

    8 32.00%
  • North Korea

    0 0%
  • Russia

    0 0%
  • Another Country (please share who below)

    8 32.00%
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Results 41 to 48 of 48
  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by electronique View Post
    I have bad news to tell you. Those 18 to 24 year olds who you think are not competent will be voting in record numbers this November. How do you say in your movie Apocolypse now "the horror, the horror".
    I realize that I've sort of backed myself into a corner with my statement. However, my intent wasn't to spread fear of our new/young voters as much as cast doubt upon the statistic and whether it reflects the truth of the situation.

    With that said, yes there indeed are people voting--again--which I am indeed fearful of. Although, to be fair it isn't limited to the 18 to 24 age range.
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  2. tirk's Avatar
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    #42  
    Clearly the current US administration thinks it's ...the USA. Otherwise why do they need to do things like this?
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by electronique View Post
    I have bad news to tell you. Those 18 to 24 year olds who you think are not competent will be voting in record numbers this November. How do you say in your movie Apocolypse now "the horror, the horror".
    lol I agree... actually, I don't think MOST people are competent when it comes to politics. For fun I'm asking people I meet or know (mix of D and R) about their candidates voting history or current policies. Funny the amount of blank faces... people go back to "sound bits" in an instance... spewing stuff that does not even matter.

    Far as our enemy. I would guess we need some in order to keep pumping money into our military. But you don't want iran, NK, etc building a good military... never know when you have to go to war with them... who wants to fight a good opponent or a "fair" war. Heck with that.

    Plus, if iran has a good military, they might bomb Israel when Israel gets a wild hair up their **** and decides to bomb one of Iran's plants or something. We don't want that. We need for Israel to be able to do whatever they want in the region.

    I'm more worried about what is happening in Pakistan than in any other country right now.
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  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    lol I agree... actually, I don't think MOST people are competent when it comes to politics. For fun I'm asking people I meet or know (mix of D and R) about their candidates voting history or current policies. Funny the amount of blank faces... people go back to "sound bits" in an instance... spewing stuff that does not even matter.
    Competency is a subjective term. For example, some people labeled incompetent might have profound things to say that fall outside the range of the questions we ask, which are, after all, based on our own biased interests. That does not make what they believe any the less important. Also, I think writing off most people as incompetent just promotes a sense of futility and apathy in the democratic process which itself can be used as a political tool.

    All I can say is, whether in the US or France, those political movements who try to bring as many people to vote as possible operate from their own strength. Political movements who feel their best hope is to promote apathy and a low voter turnout just highlight their own inherent weakness.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Our number one enemy is ignorance. Shallow thinking and apathy are close seconds. Next in line is government. Our 'external threats' are smokescreens designed to perpetuate the top three.
    Indeed.

    I think that government has only become an enemy because of greed and power. But, that is probably to be expected.

    I wish that people would at least try to understand others, and not believe that just because somebody is different that they should be hated.

    So, my vote for "Another country" is really a vote for ignorance.
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  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    Indeed.

    I think that government has only become an enemy because of greed and power. But, that is probably to be expected.
    Agreed. I have always believed that an honest politician would not last long in our system. They will be either ran out of town, railroaded, have their honest reputation sabotaged, or could even have their life endangered.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    I wish that people would at least try to understand others, and not believe that just because somebody is different that they should be hated.

    So, my vote for "Another country" is really a vote for ignorance.
    So how would you come to understand "another country" like Iran that has their national leaders chanting death to Israel and the USA in national speeches, while acting as one of the top terrorist supporters (with financial aid, training, safe haven, weapon supplies, etc..), while ignoring Russia, China, England, France, Germany, USA, and the rest of the UN's 3 or 4 all but unanimously approved Resolutions to stop their Nuclear program while saying that Isreal must be wiped off the face of the earth?

    Is it hate to have concerns of a country like this that has openly expressed or supported confrontational intentions against us and our allies? Or is it ignorance to turn a blind eye saying we are more evil at home so we don't have to worry about what they are doing?
  7. #47  
    I completely forgot about this thread. I guess I have been somewhat successful in my attempts to stay away from a computer and go out and do other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    So how would you come to understand "another country" like Iran that has their national leaders chanting death to Israel and the USA in national speeches, while acting as one of the top terrorist supporters (with financial aid, training, safe haven, weapon supplies, etc..), while ignoring Russia, China, England, France, Germany, USA, and the rest of the UN's 3 or 4 all but unanimously approved Resolutions to stop their Nuclear program while saying that Isreal must be wiped off the face of the earth?
    There is probably a reason to the actions of those countries. It seems that US foreign involvement, or at least the way that we involve ourselves, is disliked. This is my best educated guess, and I am by far no expert on the situation.

    As for understanding them, I would do what I seem to do a lot, which is listen. As our parents would tell us, we have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak. Most of the hate in the world could be eliminated if people would take the time to listen to other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    Is it hate to have concerns of a country like this that has openly expressed or supported confrontational intentions against us and our allies? Or is it ignorance to turn a blind eye saying we are more evil at home so we don't have to worry about what they are doing?
    Concerns are rarely hateful. It is how these concerns (or fears) are expressed and acted upon that are hateful.

    I think that turning a blind eye would be ignorant. There has to be something that we have done that is causing such hate (I rarely hear of people that absolutely hate other people for no reason and want harm done to others without reason). Ignoring the cause of this hate could be devastating.
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  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    There is probably a reason to the actions of those countries. It seems that US foreign involvement, or at least the way that we involve ourselves, is disliked. This is my best educated guess, and I am by far no expert on the situation.

    As for understanding them, I would do what I seem to do a lot, which is listen. As our parents would tell us, we have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak. Most of the hate in the world could be eliminated if people would take the time to listen to other people.
    I totally agree with talking with Iran and have expressed that same view several times over, but this is what also makes the Iran case unique. Iran most often times singles out the US and Israel, but some of the most out spoken against Iran also include France, England, Germany and even Russia, the UN with 3 resolutions against Iran, the IAEA who is only trying to confirm Iran's own claims of an innocent nuke program but canceled their talks with them this last week again so that they could not ask them about the brand new 6,000 centrifuges that Iran started up this week.

    If you look at the two Iran threads Here and Here it is easy to see the tremendous steps that the US, UN, France, Germany, Russia, etc... have taken in trying to talk with and listen to Iran. They have made a great number of and continuous efforts with this tactic for 5 years now, when it first came to light that Iran had been keeping a secret from the rest of the world that they had been conducting a Nuke program for the last 20 years. Here are some of the steps that they have all offered so far that Iran has refused:

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    • You failed to notice in the post you responded to, the whole theme of the article that I quoted and sourced from the IAEA chief is focused on resolving this peacefully with talks. And it actually critical of the way the US has handled many other nuke situations with other countries.
      .
    • I was very much for seeing if the EU multi national negotiations (supported by the US but not active participant) with Iran would work, but Iran called them off saying they will not offer any point of negotiation.....forcing France, Germany, and GB to recommend them to the UN for international violations and their unwillingness to negotiate.
      .
    • I was all for the Russia offered plan to do all of their refinement for Iran, which would give Iran a very inexpensive and fast way to reach all of their stated goals (without any confrontation from anyone in the world community) of a peaceful nuke program for electricity, but they refused saying they must refine their own nuclear material (which can be abused to produce nuke weapon grade material) with no explanation as to why.
      .
    • I am very much for the IAEA inspections, but when they started actually finding incriminating evidence against Iran and Iran was being called on breaking into their seals on facilities that were under current investigation by the IAEA, Iran kicked them out and has refused access to IAEA to confirm their claim of developing only a peaceful nuke program.
      .
    • I am very much in support of the UN sanctions (especially if China and Russia will allow the sanctions that the rest of the voting UN members want). This could be the most effective way to deal with Iran.


    Full Original Post: http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...&postcount=160
    Here are also some of the reactions from Iran with these steps:

    DIPLOMACY:
    I am 100% for diplomacy. But this can also be a weapon used against us. Diplomacy is only effective if both sides are willing to meet on a common ground. Things that will make diplomacy very challenging if not impossible with Iran:
    • Iran considers the UN sanctions an action of war (Which now there are 3 of them)
    • Stalling tactics are being very artfully used. This gives Iran the advantage of time to develop any possible nukes they can. It also gives them time to install / upgrade facilities to produce weapon grade material. They already have a deployment system in place that can reach well into the EU, they just need something with a big enough bang to put in it.
    • They claim to want to have nuke power for peaceful electricity and nothing more. So in response to this Russia offered to do the refining for them and make sure they have all the nuke power they need for electricity. They refused saying they must refine it themselves.
    • After they refused Russia's offer because Iran said they must refine it themselves the EU then offered to give Iran a nuke reactor that would produce energy for use for electricity where they can refine the nuke materials themselves but would not be able to be used for refining weapon grade material. Iran found this to be an insult to be offered the means to meet the goal they have stated they are trying to achieve and refused.
    • Iran threatens to withdraw from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, the international treaty of accountability of possessing nuke power.
    • Iran threatens to share it's nuke technology with unstable gov like Sudan.
    • Iran says the Holocaust of WWII is a fabricated myth. No Jews were held in concentration camps none of them were persecuted by firing squads or gas chambers. He has even held conventions to prove this is all a bunch of historic lies. This is all to justify his statement that he is personally called to be the person to "wipe Israel off the map."
    • Leaders of Iran chant various phrases to kill USA or Israel during national speeches to their citizens.


    Full Original Post: http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...6&postcount=69
    Iran has been following a similar pattern with these talks over and over again for the last 5 years. Open up talks to Negotiate. Offered a viable solution according the goals they stated. Offer threats. Cancel negotiations when pressed to have the IAEA come in an verify their claims of innocent intentions. Wait a few months and repeat.

    Again, I am all for talking with Iran. This has been happening and these are just some of the challenges with doing that with Iran specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    Concerns are rarely hateful. It is how these concerns (or fears) are expressed and acted upon that are hateful.

    I think that turning a blind eye would be ignorant. There has to be something that we have done that is causing such hate (I rarely hear of people that absolutely hate other people for no reason and want harm done to others without reason). Ignoring the cause of this hate could be devastating.
    A lot of it I think has to do with culture. They, the Gov not necessarily the people, hate the Western culture. Iran actually has a special police force specifically to enforce non-Western trends, standards, forms of entertainment, national dress codes, etc... This is also the same police force that will enforce limitation of expressing views contrary to the Gov's policies.

    I have also pointed out several times over that a lot of this is Government driven and not population driven. It has been shown again and again that a large portion of the Iran citizens do not have bad feelings towards the West or the US. And that a lot of them disagree with their own government actions and policies, but are unable to express them openly within Iran's borders. This I feel would make a real tragedy if some small spark started the flame for an actual war.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 04/17/2008 at 12:09 PM.
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