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  1. #21  
    SPOILER BELOW!!!































    Ben shot dead as a kid... I did NOT see that coming. But it made perfect sense.

    Curious to see how they handle the old time travel paradox.
    I find it sad/odd that people ask to be thanked. How genuine is it when you have to ask? It's like forcing your kid to call Grandma, to thank her for the new underwear she sent for their birthday.

    "To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
    -Jack Handy, SNL-


  2.    #22  
    Scary -- the show this season has been unbelievably good -- probably unsustainably good

    The collective work that is Lost respresents one of the most ambitious, affecting, and provocative works of story telling ever created. (said by BARYE without irony).

    Its economy of words, its allusion to past relationships, events, and aches... I become so twisted with empathetic pain when i experience these stories -- I cry (literally) at Kate's self sacrifice, her self delusion, her retrospective recognition -- at Jack's regretful sad understanding of the truth of his past relationship with Kate -- of Juliet's despairing knowledge that the happiness that she's known with Sawyer these last 3 years is likely over...

    But I don't know why they are trying so hard all of them to save Ben -- most especially after what Richard tells them.
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/02/2009 at 10:06 AM.
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Scary -- the show this season has been unbelievably good -- probably unsustainably good
    But I want, no, NEED more answers. In no particular order:

    Why did Claire abandon her baby?
    What the HELL is the smoke monster?
    This one probably will never be answered. What was the blonde's (Abby?) connection to Hugo? They killed her off for having a real life DUI arrest.
    An H bomb?
    Black Rock?
    I want to know more about the Asian that can talk to dead people.
    Why get rid of Walt? His hitting puberty screwing up the timeline?
    The healing force of the island?
    Why kill off Mr. Eko? He didn't get a DUI. He and Charlie were my favorites. I sure can pick 'em.
    Who or what is Jacob?

    If I won a contest, and got to pick just one answer...
    Smoke monster. It's been there since day 1. How did Ben summon it?
    Season 1, it sounded mechanical. Now it seems more like animal noises.

    Obviousy this season they pretty much outed that the island is a magical / mystical place. As opposed to it being heaven, hell, or somewhere inbetween.
    I find it sad/odd that people ask to be thanked. How genuine is it when you have to ask? It's like forcing your kid to call Grandma, to thank her for the new underwear she sent for their birthday.

    "To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
    -Jack Handy, SNL-


  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryHumor View Post
    But I want, no, NEED more answers. In no particular order:

    ....What the HELL is the smoke monster?
    This one probably will never be answered. ...

    ...Smoke monster. It's been there since day 1. How did Ben summon it?

    Season 1, it sounded mechanical. Now it seems more like animal noises...

    Why kill off Mr. Eko? ...

    Deus ex machina: (literally "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a surprising or unexpected event occurs in a story's plot, often to resolve flaws or tie up loose ends in the narrative.


    Perhaps its this infirm 300 year old's failing memory -- but I can't recall ever seeing "smoke Monsters" etc on Lost.

    How could such a brilliantly written narrative rely on such an artificial device to "wrap up loose ends", and explain the unexplainable ???

    It can't be true -- therefore Scary, you must have imagined it. (or alternatively -- and perhaps more plausibly, you have been secretly co-opted by the "smoke Monster" -- and are now one of the "Others" !!!)


    I too btw, really liked Eko and his subpot of avenging redemption -- the drug smuggler/dealer becoming preist in guilt and expiation.

    His story was so movingly told and believable -- why dissapear him for no reason.

    I also liked the cop girl (whose DUI was the most serious) that Jack had a thing for...
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/09/2009 at 02:04 AM.
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  5. #25  
    Smoke monster was around in season one.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Deus ex machina: (literally "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a surprising or unexpected event occurs in a story's plot, often to resolve flaws or tie up loose ends in the narrative.


    Perhaps its this infirm 300 year old's failing memory -- but I can't recall ever seeing "smoke Monsters" etc on Lost.

    How could such a brilliantly written narrative rely on such an artificial device to "wrap up loose ends", and explain the unexplainable ???

    I too btw, really liked Eko and his subpot of avenging redemption -- the drug smuggler/dealer becoming preist in guilt and expiation.

    His story was so movingly told and believable -- why dissapear him for no reason.

    I also liked the cop girl (whose DUI was the most serious) that Jack had a thing for...
    It's hard to tell if you're pulling my leg. It was the smoke monster that killed Mr. Eko. I won't spoil this week's episode in case you have not seen it. But we learn a lot more about the monster, which in good Lost fashion, created more questions.

    The Monster - Lostpedia

    Last edited by ScaryHumor; 04/09/2009 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Image too large
    I find it sad/odd that people ask to be thanked. How genuine is it when you have to ask? It's like forcing your kid to call Grandma, to thank her for the new underwear she sent for their birthday.

    "To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
    -Jack Handy, SNL-


  7.    #27  
    alright Scary (and anyone else) -- what'dya think ??
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    alright Scary (and anyone else) -- what'dya think ??
    Watching Lost is like having one of those snow globes (not sure if that is exactly what you call them), but everytime you start getting into a plot they grab the snow globe and shake it up and you're suddenly watching something else....then you start to get into that.....and BAM....they shake the snow globe again.

    Anyway, watched the first episode last night....very good....but geez...not sure where this is going. Are they now in two time periods? And we didn't see where Julia was in the other "no plane crash" world. Thoughts?
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  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Watching Lost is like having one of those snow globes (not sure if that is exactly what you call them), but everytime you start getting into a plot they grab the snow globe and shake it up and you're suddenly watching something else....then you start to get into that.....and BAM....they shake the snow globe again.

    Anyway, watched the first episode last night....very good....but geez...not sure where this is going. Are they now in two time periods? And we didn't see where Julia was in the other "no plane crash" world. Thoughts?
    I have a few quick, boring thoughts...

    I mostly liked where the story seems to be going -- its too soon to be sure, but there are potentially some interesting places where they could go.

    Even though I was playing it back via a DVR, I was bothered by how frequently the story was interrupted by commercial breaks -- weird -- I know the network needs the money and all (Lost is expensive to produce, afterall), but that was crazy...

    I'm not enthralled by the actor cast playing Jacob -- so far he's gone seemingly too much toward portraying an innocuous almost passive figure. I have no sense of there being a depth or genuine emotion in his characterization -- no sense of ennui, of anger, of genuine empathy -- no inference of the monster that is the duality of saintliness ...

    The revelation that John Locke -- or at least the spirit that comes to occupy and merge with what was John Locke -- is interesting sort of. (but its not yet enough for me -- and does not yet make me renounce what I had previously said to Scary about the smoke monster).

    You're right to observe that the "revised universe" has not so far included Juliet -- but that's not too surprising if you recall that she had been living on the Island -- a kind of involuntary volunteer, researching procreation -- so unlike the airplane people, her "revised life" would be amongst the "others" (and not with Sawyer etc.).

    The "revised universe" story for me seems to be bringing forward the potential revelation that going back to how things were or would have been, was never going to bring any of them happiness.

    BTW -- the most affecting moment of the night for me was the version of Juliet letting go of Sawyer that proceeded the new episode. An abbreviated version of that event recurs several times during the story, but for some reason its never played completely.

    Juliet's letting go, Sawyer holding on with every fiber of his anguished poisoned soul -- its a moment that captures some of the unexplainable irrational redemptive power of love, the unexplainable irrational willingness to sacrifice oneself, for love -- (BARYE will never understand things like that...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 02/03/2010 at 03:53 PM.
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  10.    #30  
    Brilliant.

    These most recent final episodes in this wonderful story have been amongst its best, a story that is overall among the best works of fiction I've ever known.

    Several times I found myself laughing aloud in surprise at unexpected turns in the playing out of the story's parallel plot. At the clever reintroductions of characters, at the reinterpretations of events and stories from the characters' past that we know of, and how they have been transmutated by the lens of these new experiences.

    James' story was the fulcrum of the Tuesday's narrative -- a story which has always had more layers of pain, alienation, and twisted humanity than any person could sanely bear.

    In the previous unfoldings of the parallel story we have discovered a Ben who is an ambitious but ineffective history teacher -- one who ultimately is willing to sacrifice his own Machiavellian plan to become principal for the sake of the favorite student who was the beloved step-daughter he allowed to be killed in the alternate narrative.

    On the island, Ben -- who was once this imperious, manipulative tyrant -- is now but a hollow shell of what he was -- nothing now but a self doubting, guilt driven, sagging bag of regret and sadness.

    As for James, tonight we learned that he's a cop -- a cop working undercover investigating a conman with his partner Miles.

    A fellow detective, Miles is also a confidant and a friend -- a friend who sets James up for a blind date with Charlotte, the beautiful red haired woman who was both the lover and daughter of the brilliant physicist Daniel Faraday (who was himself the son of Charles Whidmore).

    The episode jarringly ends with James the cop chasing down and apprehending a fleeing fugitive -- Kate.

    I've said it previously -- "Lost" never needed to be as good as it is -- I'm just grateful that it has been...
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  11. #31  
    Forgot all about this thread! It's on tonite, but won't be able to watch till tomorrow.
    Great story telling indeed. But answers are not coming fast enough for me.

    From one of my previous posts (4/5/09):
    Why did Claire abandon her baby?
    What the HELL is the smoke monster?
    This one probably will never be answered. What was the blonde's (Abby?) connection to Hugo? They killed her off for having a real life DUI arrest.
    An H bomb?
    Black Rock?
    I want to know more about the Asian that can talk to dead people.
    Why get rid of Walt? His hitting puberty screwing up the timeline?
    The healing force of the island?
    Why kill off Mr. Eko? He didn't get a DUI. He and Charlie were my favorites. I sure can pick 'em.
    Who or what is Jacob?


    A few of those have been half answered. Give me something SOLID this week.
    I find it sad/odd that people ask to be thanked. How genuine is it when you have to ask? It's like forcing your kid to call Grandma, to thank her for the new underwear she sent for their birthday.

    "To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad.
    -Jack Handy, SNL-


  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryHumor View Post
    But I want, no, NEED more answers. In no particular order:

    Why did Claire abandon her baby?
    What the HELL is the smoke monster?
    This one probably will never be answered. What was the blonde's (Abby?) connection to Hugo? They killed her off for having a real life DUI arrest.
    An H bomb?
    Black Rock?
    I want to know more about the Asian that can talk to dead people.
    Why get rid of Walt? His hitting puberty screwing up the timeline?
    The healing force of the island?
    Why kill off Mr. Eko? He didn't get a DUI. He and Charlie were my favorites. I sure can pick 'em.
    Who or what is Jacob?

    If I won a contest, and got to pick just one answer...
    Smoke monster. It's been there since day 1. How did Ben summon it?
    Season 1, it sounded mechanical. Now it seems more like animal noises.

    Obviousy this season they pretty much outed that the island is a magical / mystical place. As opposed to it being heaven, hell, or somewhere inbetween.
    Most of your questions were answered Scary -- except for Mr Eko.

    I read some interview with the writers recently that it was for the weirdly prosaic reasons that the actor playing Eko hated Hawaii (!!!) -- and did not want to spend time there away from his home in London.

    His wish to return to England compelled the writers to write Eko out of the story.
    Last edited by BARYE; 05/25/2010 at 03:47 AM.
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  13.    #33  
    I just tonight watched the last wonderful episode in the magnificent epic that is Lost.

    Lost was an extraordinary creation -- a breathtakingly encompassing work of imaginative fiction that deserves to be compared to sagas like War and Peace, and Moby ****.

    Because of its length and Tolstoyan complexity, its not fair to see it with the same lens as a conventional film. The brilliant way it interwove almost forgotten backstories to give immeasurable complexity and emotion to contemporary events that its characters experienced was both incredibly involving and ambitious -- yet also demonstrated immense confidence and trust in its audience -- that they'd be able to recall enough of these past events to make characters motivations and behavior meaningful, and not be put off by its non-linear narrative.

    This final closing story of the saga was for me terribly bittersweet and satisfying. Though perhaps not its best single night, I still wept often as its stories and characters found a measure of happiness and were able to merge their parallel lives.

    My eyes were frequently gauzed with tears of recognition and pleasure as characters like Sawyer and Juliet impossibly refound and reconnected to one another. I cried as Jin and Sun through the baby she carries (and their baby doctor Juliet), are able to synthesize their island past and his death and sacrifices, with their now liberated happy present. I even teared up when Sayid connected once again to his island love, the blandly flawed Shannon -- and not his true true love, the extraordinary Nadia.

    Even before Jack came with Kate to that church -- a church Desmond had arranged the coffin to be delivered to -- I understood that Jack was not to be freed from his life of ennui and unhappiness -- that it was not his destiny to be liberated by the love of a woman like Kate, not to be gifted with a life of happiness.

    We knew things were bad when (Desmond ?) corrects Jack, telling him he had no son.

    When Jack opened what ostensibly was to be his father's coffin, I had for some minutes been expecting it would contain a Jack's body -- as had a coffin with John Locke's body earlier -- (and like in Bergman's great film: "Wild Strawberries").

    As an ending it wasn't perfect, and it perhaps tried to tie a few too many loose ends together, but I liked all of it very much, nonetheless.
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  14. #34  
    I missed a few seasons (the DI and time travel mess) but it didn't seem to make much difference. I really think they jumped the shark with the time travel crap, but managed to hang on. I did watch this season and I loved being back in that world. I also thought they did a great job on the finale, but there was a whole deus ex machina feel to the season and finale. They really crammed too much explanation into the last few episodes...Jacob and his brother, the whole crux explained in one episode which was the worst of the season. It was nice to see Locke as Locke. I kind of figured the end scene when Hugo looked at Ben and said "you were a great #2"...implying that it was long in the future and their lives on the island had ended in the past. In the end the writers made it all about the characters and less about the island, so many questions will always be open for interpretation. And I agree it was wonderfully drawn series, with subtlety and very groundbreaking....but I wish it had been not so obvious that things were being made up as they went along through the years.
    Last edited by davidra; 05/25/2010 at 06:28 AM.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I missed a few seasons (the DI and time travel mess) but it didn't seem to make much difference. I really think they jumped the shark with the time travel crap, but managed to hang on. I did watch this season and I loved being back in that world. I also thought they did a great job on the finale, but there was a whole deus ex machina feel to the season and finale. They really crammed too much explanation into the last few episodes...Jacob and his brother, the whole crux explained in one episode which was the worst of the season. It was nice to see Locke as Locke. I kind of figured the end scene when Hugo looked at Ben and said "you were a great #2"...implying that it was long in the future and their lives on the island had ended in the past. In the end the writers made it all about the characters and less about the island, so many questions will always be open for interpretation. And I agree it was wonderfully drawn series, with subtlety and very groundbreaking....but I wish it had been not so obvious that things were being made up as they went along through the years.

    true -- there were episodes and tangents that did not reach the heights that the overall series set.

    I particularly refer to the final episodes from 2 years back produced during the year of the writers strike, episodes that I wrote about back then -- episodes that seemed rushed and inorganic.

    I too was uncomfortable with the whole time travel sequences -- and especially with Ben and then Locke moving the island and time with that underground winch.

    The temptation to mail it in is usually so irresistible, its miraculous that they were able to sustain the extraordinary level of brilliance that they did over such a long time.

    But I think I disagree with your comment that they were making it up as they went along -- the whole seems too well constructed, too integrated to have been the product of an ad hoc improvisation.
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    #36  
    So.... what's this Lost thingy all about? Think I should start watching it?

    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #37  
    I gotta agree with Davidra I hate when I say that. I think the problem was that they had no idea the show would go 6 seasons. I saw an interview with the Benjamin actor, and he was only supposed to be on the show for 4 episodes.....do what? He became a major part of the show and if he was only supposed to be on for 4 episodes then they clearly were making it up as they went along. That is why I think some things simply couldn't be explained, because there probably wouldn't be a logical explanation.

    With that said, I liked the way they ended it. Since the concensus seems to be that they were all dead from the beginning, can someone explain about when the Oceanic 6 managed to get "home", you know, after the ship exploded and then the helicopter crashed because it ran out of gas and crashed into the ocean? Soooooo....was that just Jack's soul imagining all that? Was the whole 6 seasons from the view point of Jack and the others really weren't there in spirit, just in Jack's "mind", until he came to grips with what happened and was ready to "move on"? What do you think?
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  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    So.... what's this Lost thingy all about? Think I should start watching it?

    Too late -- you're already lost...

    I truly wanted to rip something really snarky -- but BARYE's humour organ's are sadly now atrophied and exhausted. (who knew that overuse caused harm ??)

    For now I will pretend your question was sincere -- and refer you to a site I recently discovered in an effort to assist another initiate in their quest for revelation:

    (This is a crazily deep and detailed site -- I've just skimmed the timeline details part, and some of the character bios -- and it is extraordinary. A great place to go to get up to speed if you haven't been able to follow the series from its beginnings as I had.)
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  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Too late -- you're already lost...

    I truly wanted to rip something really snarky -- but BARYE's humour organ's are sadly now atrophied and exhausted. (who knew that overuse caused harm ??)

    For now I will pretend your question was sincere -- and refer you to a site I recently discovered in an effort to assist another initiate in their quest for revelation:

    (This is a crazily deep and detailed site -- I've just skimmed the timeline details part, and some of the character bios -- and it is extraordinary. A great place to go to get up to speed if you haven't been able to follow the series from its beginnings as I had.)
    I'm sorry BAYRE. More failed humor on my part. Its just that you guys were so deep in to it, I couldn't resist.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. #40  
    I think the title of the series pretty much summed up how everyone felt after watching the final episode.
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