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  1. #141  
    I don't hate hillary, but I hate some of her proposed policies:

    Clinton also renewed her call for reinstating the assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24063698/

    The only thing that weapons ban did was make the price of clips and certain guns go up. The "bad" guys still had access to all the weapons they had before. That was one of the most disastrous things bill c. ever did while in office.

    Wish I could find a dem that respected the rights of legal gun holders.... outside of that guy from NC.

    Does anyone on this forum not have health care? Do you think hills plan will get you better health care? Maybe that is why she needs a "story" for others "feel" sorry for those in need... not about us, it is about them.
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  2.    #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    I don't hate hillary, but I hate some of her proposed policies:



    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24063698/

    The only thing that weapons ban did was make the price of clips and certain guns go up. The "bad" guys still had access to all the weapons they had before. That was one of the most disastrous things bill c. ever did while in office.

    Wish I could find a dem that respected the rights of legal gun holders.... outside of that guy from NC.

    Does anyone on this forum not have health care? Do you think hills plan will get you better health care? Maybe that is why she needs a "story" for others "feel" sorry for those in need... not about us, it is about them.

    as BARYE assembles his fearsome army of gorillas, I heartily agree with you -- but tell us where Obama's position differs from Hillary's ??

    And tell us how your view on assualt weapons has no connection to events like Va. Tech -- and to the ballooning murder and crime rates during junior's 7 hideus years ...

    Oh -- and no -- like a very great number of people in this country I don't have any healthcare.

    And many who think they do, discover they don't when a catastrophic event occurs and their insurance co. denies them.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Hobbes, please tell that you're not still saying that the story was false, are you ????
    The story is effectively false since it is inaccurate with regards to what it is supposed to illustrate.
    For the record, the Associated Press has investigated this story, and they've verified that Hillary was speaking the truth as it was told to her --
    Since 'corsican' is your primary language, perhaps you can be forgiven for semantical errors, but true and accurate are not necessarily the same thing. In this case, the truth drastically changes the moral of the story.
    and that the facts of the story are essentially true.
    Not all of them according to the article you posted. The essence of the story becomes quite different. Furthermore, there are still holes in the story, e.g. which clinic refused service?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Hobbes, please tell that you're not still saying that the story was false, are you ????
    I am simply pointing out that several of the key facts were never verified by Hillary before she presented this as an example to further her own campaign agenda. Some have proved to have some form of validity while others don't have any at all. Nothing more. I would hope that a candidate running for President would take a few hours or a day or two and verify the facts before they shared it as an emotional scare tactic to further political agendas. If it proved to be validated and accurate after the fact checking BEFORE sharing it on an original 2nd hand hearsay source, then it is a great tool to use and can be very effective and I do not have any issues with it. If not checked and used only on hearsay (whether in realtity it is 100% true, only half true, or has no truth), it says a great deal to the character of the candidate. Just like I would hold McCain to the same standard of truthfulness and expect him to fact check any story to further his points on his political agenda. Hillary had 5 weeks to do this. She made a conscious choice to go on hearsay vs verified facts. That is the only point I have been making.

    Again, do have any problems if McCain was guilty of the same type of scenario I presented above? If not, then you are applying the same standard to all candidates, and even though I may not agree with that standard I respect you for holding the same set of standards against both sides. If not then it appears to be a politically biased get off the hook card for Hillary.
  5. #145  
    Here's the 'problem' I have with this sort of thing... If these stories are so common that 'something must be done', then why can't said pols simply find an easily verifiable one to tell on the stump?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    as BARYE assembles his fearsome army of gorillas, I heartily agree with you -- but tell us where Obama's position differs from Hillary's ??.
    Actually, obama may be worse... and NOBODY knows where mccain will fall on the issue yet, his record and statements are all over the place. There is a thought he would be bit more lenient than his two friends, o and h.

    And tell us how your view on assualt weapons has no connection to events like Va. Tech -- and to the ballooning murder and crime rates during junior's 7 hideus years ...
    What do you mean? I simply love my guns... I love going out to the farm and shooting my ak, glocks, shotguns or whatever.

    Hate to tell you this, but those bans accomplished 0. They did not actually ban the guns, but made the cost go up a bit for law abiding citizens. Criminals will always pay more for good guns and about the same as everyone else for sat night specials (depending on where you live). But the "ban on guns" was BS... something to make people "feel" good. Before and after the ban I could still buy the same AK. After the ban I could not place a folding stock on it... think that stopped criminals? Right...

    After the ban I could not purchase a gun that had a clip larger than 10 rounds... but before the ban clip manufactures made so many extra clips in anticipation of the ban, that the larger clips were more than available. Of course, the price went up considerably. Gun and gun accessory manufactures loved the ban on guns... they could charge more for their parts....




    Oh -- and no -- like a very great number of people in this country I don't have any healthcare.

    And many who think they do, discover they don't when a catastrophic event occurs and their insurance co. denies them.
    Yea, I keep forgetting that there are a lot of people who don't have health care... seems odd.... I'm still wondering how their health care system will look... I'm lucky, I can't be denied... I'm a vet. The VA saved my life once... people don't like them, but I know a couple of vets that they have provided excellent health care to, including myself.
    Last edited by theog; 04/11/2008 at 03:05 PM.
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  7.    #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    If you're including yourself in that 'folks', I could agree...
    I'm glad you asked that -- because self evidently, I do.

    When Hillary was documented as having embroidered onto her "war" experiences, it was me who immediately declared her toast. I did'nt let my personal fealty and affection for her cloud my judgement or taint my appraisal of what I'd heard.

    My perspective -- good and bad -- hopefully remains as close to objective and rational as its possible to be.

    ...I don't hate Hillary any more than I hate Bush. ...
    My objection to what everyone here and in the media (except for Faux) are saying about Hillary is precisely that there's this warped unfair double standard that you all apply to her.

    ANY retelling of ANY story picks up variation and errors in its retelling. What you all are collectively doing is seeking out every tiny imperfection that you can to find as an excuse to confirm your preconsidered loathing for her.

    Apparently by pretending to be a Napoleonic monkey.
    be assured that my crack team of ethernet detectives is even as you read this, tracing your IP address ...
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/12/2008 at 04:24 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    When Hillary was documented as having embroidered onto her "war" experiences, it was me who immediated declared her toast. I did'nt let me personal fealty and affection for her cloud my judgement or taint my appraisal of what I'd heard.
    But you certainly let it cloud your judgement and taint your appraisal of those who considered it a problem.
    My perspective -- good and bad -- hopefully remains as close to objective and rational as its possible to be.
    Sorry, but I have a difficult time accepting that as accurate given your ability to characterize this episode as having anything to do with 'true'.
    My objection to what everyone here and in the media (except for Faux) are saying about Hillary is precisely that there's this warped unfair double standard that you all apply to her.
    And what of your double standards?
    ANY retelling of ANY story picks up variation and errors in its retelling.
    Which makes it all the more strange that you'd try to spin a third hand story as being 'true'.
    What you all are collectively doing is seeking out every tiny imperfection that you can to find an excuse to confirm your preconsidered loathing for her.
    Perhaps you can turn that high powered lens of perception on yourself?
    be assured that my crack team of ethernet detectives is even as you read this, tracing your IP address ...
    Considering they couldn't help you fix some basic Exchange and internet problems, I won't be holding my breath waiting for their site visit.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  9.    #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    ...
    Yea, I keep forgetting that there are a lot of people who don't have health care... seems odd.... I'm still wondering how their health care system will look... I'm lucky, I can't be denied... I'm a vet. The VA saved my life once... people don't like them, but I know a couple of vets that they have provided excellent health care to, including myself.
    What people like you who get health insurance as part of their work compensation, or who are veterans don't understand, is how prohibitively expensive it is for somebody to get insurance when they pay for it themselves.

    And the cost rises and becomes increasingly unaffordable with each level of complexity introduced into the equation.

    I have tried.

    The insurance companies always ask these awkward, difficult to answer questions. Like: “how old are you ??”

    The system is designed to discriminate against those with prior medical conditions. Single unmarried males. Members of minority species.

    Health insurance companies also invariably demand prospective insurees get a complete medical examination as a condition of coverage.

    I’ve tried to comply -- and as you can see from my picture I think I disguise my age pretty well. I’ve even submitted before the exam, to the humiliation of getting a full body Brazilian.

    But unfortunately I’ve always been tripped up by the fact doctors sniff something irregular about my anatomy. That certain of the organs of my species are, shall I say, disproportionately and distinctively large.

    Alas, as an immortal -- insurance is a bit of a waste is it not ??
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/12/2008 at 04:28 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  10. #150  
    Here's a great video of Billary's response to the direct question regarding Bill Clinton taking $800,000 from pro Columbia trade groups to speak publicly in favor of it and the fact that Hillary has dipped into THEIR personal funds for her campaign. Asking is that not a conflict of interest?

    Seem like a fair question to me. Let's watch her response:



    Cripes. I do NOT look forward to this for four years (and Bill running amok).
    Last edited by daThomas; 04/12/2008 at 02:15 PM.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Here's a great video of Billary's response to the direct question regarding Bill Clinton taking $800,000 from pro Columbia trade groups to speak publicly in favor of it and the fact that Hillary has dipped into THEIR personal funds for her campaign. Asking is that not a conflict of interest?

    Seem like a fair question to me. Let's watch her response:



    Cripes. I do NOT look forward to this for four years (and Bill running amok).
    Stop hating hillary...

    I think you are secretly in love with hillary. (edit: this is a joke... btw)

    Seriously, I seen that vid last night... I was a bit surprised. Now I see where her daughter got her responses from... when hard question is asked, you duck and run.

    People criticize barrack for always having an answer (being well-spoken, etc), but I think that is better than laughing off a question (hil) or being rude to the person asking the question (daughter).

    Then again, I'd guess obama has had his moments as well, but the press and the people on this forum only pick on hill....
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  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    What people like you who get health insurance as part of their work compensation, or who are veterans don't understand, is how prohibitively expensive it is for somebody to get insurance when they pay for it themselves.
    I understand the situation... but sometimes I lack compassion for my fellow man. Another story of the "have and have not."

    I also have friends (people I personally know, not people I "heard" about ) who fell ill and now owe more in medical bills than he will ever be able to pay back. One close friend had a stroke in his early 40s... he was wiped out (financially). I know how difficult it can be....

    I have tried.
    Ok, I'll pay for your insurance... but what do I get in return?

    I'm selfish... I'm wondering if they have gov't controlled medical care, will they then do away with the VA? No use in the gov't running two systems.

    Good healthcare services will go underground, while healthcare for everyone else will be like the yugo of coverage....

    Rich will always pool their money together to get the best... leaving others with healthcare, even if substandard. After looking how hard the gov't has worked to get the va up to speed (or to a speed better than it was going), I don't see how they would handle covering the entire country.

    I lived in england and saw that disaster they call a medical system. If that is what you want, more power to you! Well, I guess it is better than nothing...
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  13.    #153  
    ...unlike some humans I know.

    I get no Schadenfreude from hearing Obama confide to his San Fran friends about how he really feels about middle america.

    His description of small town americans as angry, clinging to their guns, their religion -- as having "antipathy" (one of those expensive, Harvard kinda words...) for people who aren't like them -- this gives BARYE no pleasure. BARYE does not rejoice or celebrate Obama's political comeupance.

    Nor is BARYE mocking those who only recently had pilloried, Hillary.

    No actually BARYE is sad -- genuinely sad. He would want the winner of this contest to be determined by merit, not verbal gotchas.

    On the stump, off the cuff political speechifying is never, was never, intended to be the object of microscopic analysis.

    Oh I may have a tingle of modest pleasure over the next few days as I contemplate BARYE's tormentors -- imagining them squirm and chewing their nails, as they await the Pa. primary results -- but no, he will be neither bitter nor happy...

    ... Obama Calls His Words Ill-Chosen
    By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE and JEFF ZELENY NY TIMES

    Senator Barack Obama fought back Saturday against accusations from his rivals that he had displayed a profound misunderstanding of small-town values, in a flare-up that left him on the defensive before a series of primaries that could test his ability to win over white voters in economically distressed communities.

    For a second day, Mr. Obama sought to explain his remarks at a recent San Francisco fund-raiser that small-town Pennsylvania voters, bitter over their economic circumstances, “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them” as a way to explain their frustrations.

    Acknowledging Saturday that “I didn’t say it as well as I should have,” he explained his remarks by focusing on his characterization of those voters’ economic woes. He meant, he said, that voters in places that had been losing jobs for years expressed their anxiety at the polls by focusing on cultural and social issues like gun laws and immigration.

    Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton activated her entire campaign apparatus to portray Mr. Obama’s remarks as reflective of an elitist view of faith and community. His comments, she said, were “not reflective of the values and beliefs of Americans.”

    Mrs. Clinton suggested that Mr. Obama saw religious commitment, hunting and concern about immigration as emotional responses to economic strain rather than as deeply embedded values.

    “I grew up in a church-going family, a family that believed in the importance of living out and expressing our faith,” she said at a rally in Indianapolis. “The people of faith I know don’t ‘cling to’ religion because they’re bitter. People embrace faith not because they are materially poor, but because they are spiritually rich.”...
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/13/2008 at 09:51 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  14. #154  
    Strange how you buy into the Clinton/McCain line there on Obama's comments. The fact is that he's right. That being said, no nail-chewing here. I don't really have a dog in this hunt. The only way I'm voting for McCain is if he's running against Hillary. McCain vs. Obama, I may vote for Obama, or I may vote Libertarian. I'll leave the squirming to the other primates.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15.    #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    Strange how you buy into the Clinton/McCain line there on Obama's comments. The fact is that he's right.
    which line ?? that he's out of touch with middle america, that he's an elitist ???

    Personally I think that's silly -- silly in the sense that most humans saw junior as more like them, as less elitists than Gore or Kerry.

    But regretably, it hardly matters what BARYE thinks

    Most will hear his San Fran chit chat and consign Barry Obama to that pointy headed liberal wing of the commiecrat party...

    I don't really have a dog in this hunt. The only way I'm voting for McCain is if he's running against Hillary. McCain vs. Obama, I may vote for Obama, or I may vote Libertarian. I'll leave the squirming to the other primates.
    Me -- as I've said before -- I'd vote for a dog -- a flee infested, mange infected, rabid yellow dog -- with bad breath -- before I'd vote for McCain.

    But many of Hillary's supporters are more like you than me -- they'll vote for McCain instead.
    Last edited by BARYE; 04/13/2008 at 10:44 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    Me -- as I've said before -- I'd vote for a dog -- a flee infested, mange infected, rabid yellow dog -- with bad breath -- before I'd vote for Clinton.
    I'll ditto that with the above substitution.
  17. #157  
    I like Da's version of Barye's quote better. I wouldn't have a problem voting for a Dem if I like the candidate (I would have voted probably voted for Lieberman if he had the Dem ticket last Presidential election). I could not vote for Hillary though under any imaginable circumstances.
  18. #158  
    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...n.mum.guns.cnn

    Toward the end of this a reporter asks hill the last time she fired a gun. She told him it was "not important."

    Although, a couple of days ago, in response to Obama's comments, she claimed she grew up with guns, shot guns, and went hunting. I thought the question was legit (she opened the door)... but it goes to show how out of touch she is with reporters and why they don't care for her at times.

    Obama said an idiotic thing... he does not shoot guns or ever hunted (not counting one or two times with Uncle Joe where he did not fire a weapon) so I'm not surprised by his comments. I also think we are missing the point... it is not that he is an elitest... it is the point of what he wants to do with gun control in America... that is what I read. After looking over some other sites, and reading his other comments, he make take gun control to another level than bill clinton did with his gun control.

    Far as being an elitist, I think we all know he is not. Hill knows that... she knows his background and for what he stands. Heck, they are both so close to each other politically, I am confused as to why ANYONE would be so strong for one or the other. For that matter, we don't even know which mccain will show up to the party... one with Bush or the one with mccain's boyfriend, Lieberman. The presidency of all three might look pretty much the same, with the exception of mccain using his money blowing up Iran and maybe Venezuela. The dems will use their money on additional domestic services.

    But we have already spoken on this, the only thing hillary has left is to pounce on obama when he makes mistakes. Hope that he has a terrible meltdown soon and she is the last dem standing.

    (edit: I did not see the comments from HobbesIsReal until I hit the post button... my comments on mccain and lieberman were not in response to his comments)
    Last edited by theog; 04/13/2008 at 06:23 PM.
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  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...n.mum.guns.cnn

    Toward the end of this a reporter asks hill the last time she fired a gun. She told him it was "not important."

    Although, a couple of days ago, in response to Obama's comments, she claimed she grew up with guns, shot guns, and went hunting. I thought the question was legit (she opened the door)... but it goes to show how out of touch she is with reporters and why they don't care for her at times.

    Obama said an idiotic thing... he does not shoot guns or ever hunted (not counting one or two times with Uncle Joe where he did not fire a weapon) so I'm not surprised by his comments. I also think we are missing the point... it is not that he is an elitest... it is the point of what he wants to do with gun control in America... that is what I read. After looking over some other sites, and reading his other comments, he make take gun control to another level than bill clinton did with his gun control.

    Far as being an elitist, I think we all know he is not. Hill knows that... she knows his background and for what he stands. Heck, they are both so close to each other politically, I am confused as to why ANYONE would be so strong for one or the other. For that matter, we don't even know which mccain will show up to the party... one with Bush or the one with mccain's boyfriend, Lieberman. The presidency of all three might look pretty much the same, with the exception of mccain using his money blowing up Iran and maybe Venezuela. The dems will use their money on additional domestic services.

    But we have already spoken on this, the only thing hillary has left is to pounce on obama when he makes mistakes. Hope that he has a terrible meltdown soon and she is the last dem standing.

    (edit: I did not see the comments from HobbesIsReal until I hit the post button... my comments on mccain and lieberman were not in response to his comments)
    Obama's comments that are the interest of the Clinton Spin Machine, were relating to why working class people in small town American allow their votes to be manipulated on topics such as gun control, religion, anti-immigration INSTEAD of looking at who is sticking it to them economically which is corporate america.

    The Billary camp is desperate, truly, truly, desperate. May they get the rest they so truly deserve soon, and the rest of us will get busy with the Change this Country needs.

  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    But many of Hillary's supporters are more like you than me -- they'll vote for McCain instead.
    Why would a Hillary supporter vote for McCain over Hillary?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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